Snorkel Wars

[articulate]

Snorkel - HUH! - What is it good for? (it's hard typing music)

This weekend, Wil was justifying a snorkel to his lovely wife over the campfire. And this turned into a fun topic for everyone, and I thought it might be fun here.

Once upon a time I penned the following and Aaron reminded me of it. Here it is:

The Quintet of Reasons to have a Snorkel on your Vehicle (abridged):

1. Cleaner air
2. Cooler air
3. More air
4. Dry air
5. It looks really cool

Scott promptly corrected me and summed it all up: "It's for the safety of your family." As if that was that. (and when HE speaks, that usually IS that)

So...thoughts, additions, detractions, jokes, tales, other abridged lists?

:ylsmoke:

 

[goodtimes]

Of all the snorkle topics, I'm finally going to respond to one.

Now, most of you that know me, know I don't coat things in sugar. I tell it like I see it, or I just keep my mouth shut. Usually the former.

So, without further delay.....here is a re-creation of a conversation I once had with a mall cruiser in 4 wheel parts out in LA....

"Why don't you put a snorkle on your jeep"

Me: "because they are for mall cruisers"

Him: "but they will save your engine if you are ever in deep water"

Me: "probably not, no one ever does all the other stuff needed to take advantage of the snorkle, and they suffer just as much damage with it as without it".

Him: "no way, I'd never go 'wheeling without one. You never know when you will cross a stream that is deeper than your airbox."

Me: "proper speed will give you a bow wave that will keep water out of your engine compartment. I have had bow waves higher than my hood, and never had a problem with sucking water into my engine."

Him: "But if you would have gotton stuck, you would have sucked water into your engine".

Me: "Yea, but even with a snorkle, if you don't extend your exhaust higher than water line, you will have water run into the engine via the exhaust system as soon as your engine shuts off....and it will shut off, because no one properly seals the electronics package before playing submarine. Not to mention destroying your radiator with the fan because as soon as that water rushes into the engine compartment your fan becomes a propeller and proceeds to deflect and eat the radiator."

Him: "You just gotta know how fast to drive through the water, and you'll be fine"

Me: "Is there an echo in the showroom?"

:smilies27

IMO, if you don't do the whole thing (seal the electronics, install an electric fan w/cut-off switch, raise the exhaust, extend the gearbox vents, and seal whatever else you don't want to get wet), a snorkle is of little value. Sure, they catch attention (and in some cases this is what you want), but 99.99 x 10^152 times, they are just like chrome...there for the show and that's it.

I'll leave now before I get hit in the head with a snorkle.....

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

IMO, if you don't do the whole thing (seal the electronics, install an electric fan w/cut-off switch, raise the exhaust, extend the gearbox vents, and seal whatever else you don't want to get wet), a snorkle is of little value. Sure, they catch attention (and in some cases this is what you want), but 99.99 x 10^152 times, they are just like chrome...there for the show and that's it.

Well Said! Mirrors my thoughts exactly! :ylsmoke:

 

[DaktariEd]

Reasonable thoughts of course.

But the Aussies (and others) make a very good point for snorkel use to draw cleaner air. (See Australian 4WD Monthly).

The Camino del Diablo Trail is a good example...some really powdery dust in places there. A snorkel would be an advantage, no?

Ed

 

[jeffryscott]

snorkel ...

I put my snorkel on for one primary reason: with the body lift on my little truck, I exposed the intake (or at least feared I did) by having to trim the plastic fender liner below the intake (passenger side, inner fender).

I wasn't as worried about a water crossing as I was about the way the streets in Tucson flood during the monsoon. I was afraid of dropping into a hole where there was no bow wave or generally approved way of crossing and sucking water up.

I figured it was better insurance to have, than not to. Because I have the type of job I do, when it rains, I often have to be out when everybody else is told to stay in.

The Suzuki is pretty good from the factory: breather lines are up high in the engine compartment for the front and high in the inside, electronics are also high inside (alternator is a little low) but with any bow waves, I'm sure it is safe. The snorkel provides peace of mind for the reasons given above. Plust it looks cool.:ylsmoke:

Jeff

 

[Ursidae69]

Reasonable thoughts of course.

But the Aussies (and others) make a very good point for snorkel use to draw cleaner air. (See Australian 4WD Monthly).

The Camino del Diablo Trail is a good example...some really powdery dust in places there. A snorkel would be an advantage, no?

Ed

I don't know if I buy that cleaner air argument. Some hard data needs to be collected. That would be a fun project. :lurk:

 

[goodtimes]

I put my snorkel on for one primary reason: with the body lift on my little truck, I exposed the intake (or at least feared I did) by having to trim the plastic fender liner below the intake (passenger side, inner fender).

This may be a valid concern Jeff. I'm not sure how your intake is set up.

There are definately situations where having a snorkle would be beneficial. But rarely do people *actually* need them. There is probably a higher percentage of users on this board that need them, than there is in the general public....but every time I see one, I still think "Mall Cruiser".:wavey:

 

[goodtimes]

I don't know if I buy that cleaner air argument. Some hard data needs to be collected. That would be a fun project. :lurk:

This would be relatively easy to verify Chuck. We just need 2 vehicles [one with snorkle, one without] the same lift height, tire size and type, a decent lab scale, a pair of new OEM air filters, and a nice dusty road......:truck:

 

[Grim Reaper]

Of all the snorkle topics, I'm finally going to respond to one.

Now, most of you that know me, know I don't coat things in sugar. I tell it like I see it, or I just keep my mouth shut. Usually the former.

So, without further delay.....here is a re-creation of a conversation I once had with a mall cruiser in 4 wheel parts out in LA....

"Why don't you put a snorkle on your jeep"

Me: "because they are for mall cruisers"

Him: "but they will save your engine if you are ever in deep water"

Me: "probably not, no one ever does all the other stuff needed to take advantage of the snorkle, and they suffer just as much damage with it as without it".

Him: "no way, I'd never go 'wheeling without one. You never know when you will cross a stream that is deeper than your airbox."

Me: "proper speed will give you a bow wave that will keep water out of your engine compartment. I have had bow waves higher than my hood, and never had a problem with sucking water into my engine."

Him: "But if you would have gotton stuck, you would have sucked water into your engine".

Me: "Yea, but even with a snorkle, if you don't extend your exhaust higher than water line, you will have water run into the engine via the exhaust system as soon as your engine shuts off....and it will shut off, because no one properly seals the electronics package before playing submarine. Not to mention destroying your radiator with the fan because as soon as that water rushes into the engine compartment your fan becomes a propeller and proceeds to deflect and eat the radiator."

Him: "You just gotta know how fast to drive through the water, and you'll be fine"

Me: "Is there an echo in the showroom?"

:smilies27

IMO, if you don't do the whole thing (seal the electronics, install an electric fan w/cut-off switch, raise the exhaust, extend the gearbox vents, and seal whatever else you don't want to get wet), a snorkel is of little value. Sure, they catch attention (and in some cases this is what you want), but 99.99 x 10^152 times, they are just like chrome...there for the show and that's it.

I'll leave now before I get hit in the head with a snorkle.....

The whole irony here is a snorkels primary design is for Silt not water. It helps with water is the side benefit not the primary.

I have packed the air box full of silt in drought time to the point I have had to stop and buy a new air cleaner. A Snorkel would have helped with that by getting the air from a higher source that was not carrying as large of quantity of airborne silt.

 

[bigreen505]

I have packed the air box full of silt in drought time to the point I have had to stop and buy a new air cleaner. A Snorkel would have helped with that by getting the air from a higher source that was not carrying as large of quantity of airborne silt.

Well, I don't have any great stories like that, but I have had to vacuum 1/4" or sand and heavy dust out of my air filter box and that was after only about three days (maybe 10-15 miles at the absolute maximum in the sand), and I know the gunk would not have been there had the system not been pulling air from the wheel well. Even a K&N style cone filter would have been okay.

GT, for balance, I pulled my air filter when we got to the camp spot near Mt. Elbert and there was no accumulation in the air box to speak of, even after running Westin pass and the other road in a total dust fog. I guess the sand/dirt/silt that has a little mass to it is the problem, the dust that is totally airborne not so much.

With the water issue, my feeling is that if you are going to the trouble to install a snorkel, you might as well finish the job with the electrical stuff too. On the Pathfinders that meant putting the ECU in a tupperware container and cutting and siliconing holes for the wires.

Besides, all the cool kids have 'em.

 

[Blair G]

The whole irony here is a snorkels primary design is for Silt not water. It helps with water is the side benefit not the primary.

I have packed the air box full of silt in drought time to the point I have had to stop and buy a new air cleaner. A Snorkel would have helped with that by getting the air from a higher source that was not carrying as large of quantity of airborne silt.

I was going to mention the same thing. My 110 was used by an English gentleman will touring Austrailia. Had the engine rebuilt there because of the bull dust that he experienced. After the rebuild he added a tractor cyclonic pre filter to the system. You can see it mounted on the left front wing. Not very sexy but gets the job done. I would llike to mount it up higher as it makes a blind spot.
Blair

 

[flyingwil]

MMM... looky what I started!

To quote the master himself:

Cleaner Air:
A properly engineered raised air intake system is a critical component of outfitting a vehicle for expedition travel; though it's most significant merit is not its most commonly perceived intent. Living in the southwest and traveling along miles of dusty tracks has shown me the benefits of raising the air intake high above the road surface, where the majority of the heavier dust concentration collects. When dust and dirt is stirred by the foregoing vehicle, the particles will separate by their specific gravity, with the majority settling several feet above the ground and lower. Though the dust generated by a fast moving vehicle can reach significant height, the greatest volume of particulates will have only reached an elevation of a few feet above the road surface, which is where the raised intake benefits.

Note on fitting a cyclone (donaldson type) filter: It is typical for a raised air intake used on stationary equipment and slow moving implements to be fitted with a cyclone type pre cleaner. These units are very effective when stationary or at slow speeds (below 40kph), but are useless at higher velocities as the suction created at the higher travel rates disturbs the cyclone effect. the units also must be quite large to allow sufficient airflow to the engine and cannot be used at highway speeds (80 kph and higher) without damage or loss. The pre cleaner has little use in real world trekking where high road speeds are often encountered.

Fording:
As expected, the raised air intake is a requirement for deep water fording. Many SUV's can begin ingesting water at even bumper height crossings. Water does not compress as air does, and even a small amount of water sucked into the engine can lead to valvetrain damage. When properly fitted and sealed, the raised air intake will draw air from near roof height, well above a typical crossing.

Other Considerations When Fording: Raising the air intake is just one component of deep water fording. When fitted to a gasoline engine it is necessary to ensure the high voltage ignition system is also capable of attaining the same depth. Some of the better designed gas motors now use distributorless ignitions, which are actually well sealed. The Trooper, UZJ100 and Tacoma (as do others) all use a coil on plug design which is far superior to a distributor. Special attention must also be placed on differential and gearbox breathers, taking those lines to the highest point in the engine (or even tapped into the snorkel system). Never attempt to cross water that is over hood height, and avoid crossing fast moving sources exceeding the vehicles tire height.

Bottom Line: I want want one, they look cool, and might help out. :hehe:


Oh yeah and increases the safety of my family!

 

[gjackson]

I've got to agree with GT. I've done thousands of miles in Africa including hundreds (I'm not joking) that included bull dust or fesh fesh, and my air cleaner (K&N in a 110) wasn't close to capacity when I cleaned it (with no snorkel). And I only cleaned it twice in 30,000 miles. The argument that you get cleaner air is dependant on what type of car you are in and where the air pick up is. In the 300tdi 110 it is in a very good place for convoy work. For other makes, I don't know. It's one of those arguments that seems to make sense for everyone, but every car maker puts the air pickup in a different place, and will get different air flow. There is no blanket statement that will work for everyone.

So I don't have a snorkel. But I'll fight anyone who thinks that limb risers are for sissys!!!

cheers

 

[Blair G]

"Note on fitting a cyclone (donaldson type) filter: It is typical for a raised air intake used on stationary equipment and slow moving implements to be fitted with a cyclone type pre cleaner. These units are very effective when stationary or at slow speeds (below 40kph), but are useless at higher velocities as the suction created at the higher travel rates disturbs the cyclone effect. the units also must be quite large to allow sufficient airflow to the engine and cannot be used at highway speeds (80 kph and higher) without damage or loss. The pre cleaner has little use in real world trekking where high road speeds are often encountered."

FWIW the cyclonic filter on the Rover appears to be big enough. No problems traveling at over 100k's per hour. The fact that it works at 40 kph is OK since traveling anything above that in true dust is unsafe. Can't see anything and it punishes the vehicle. Also, while I can't verify it, those people who use there 4wd's a whole bunch swear by the OEM paper elements. K&N style filters are not up to the continues use off road.
YMMV,
Blair

 

[mountainpete]

Snorkel - HUH! - What is it good for? (it's hard typing music)

This weekend, Wil was justifying a snorkel to his lovely wife over the campfire. And this turned into a fun topic for everyone, and I thought it might be fun here.

Once upon a time I penned the following and Aaron reminded me of it. Here it is:


Scott promptly corrected me and summed it all up: "It's for the safety of your family." As if that was that. (and when HE speaks, that usually IS that)

So...thoughts, additions, detractions, jokes, tales, other abridged lists?

:ylsmoke:

Mark - this is too darn funny!!! I was having this exact conversation with my wife at the campfire last night too!

We were up in central Alberta and were on a bunch of serverly dusty road, along with a few side trips where we - let's just say - got the truck a bit dirty in some mud holes on route.

We agreed at the end of it all that snorkels are FARKLE. In case you don't know farkle is, it is Functional Sparkle. It's a motorcycling term, but it applies well to us sometimes. Snorkels are functional - we all know that they do work in certain circumstance. But, and maybe more importantly, they just look darn cool!

I don't care what anyone says... I want one.