dwh
Tail-End Charlie
Not exactly, as battery warranties are usually of the "pro-rated" type. So you can get a new battery, but you'll have to pay something for it.
Solar, ARB Fridge, Sears Platinum PM-1 - Group Size 31M QUESTIONS
- Thread starter SoCal_80
- Start date
Not exactly, as battery warranties are usually of the "pro-rated" type. So you can get a new battery, but you'll have to pay something for it.
LandCruiserPhil
Expedition Leader
Originally Posted by LandCruiserPhil
When the inexpensive lead acid battery goes hopefully it will still be under warranty and the cycle be restart.
You may want to revisit what type of batteries you are purchasing if they are pro-rated from the purchased date:Wow1:
Even my inexpensive lead acid battery is from Walmart and carries a 2 year free replacement. I also have Optima and Platinum batteries in my other vehicle which also carry a 2-3 year free replacement.
When the inexpensive lead acid battery goes hopefully it will still be under warranty and the cycle be restart.
You may want to revisit what type of batteries you are purchasing if they are pro-rated from the purchased date:Wow1:
Even my inexpensive lead acid battery is from Walmart and carries a 2 year free replacement. I also have Optima and Platinum batteries in my other vehicle which also carry a 2-3 year free replacement.
xplorer
New member
Stand alone fridge/freezer system
Great thread.
1. Since my technical expertise involving electrical issues is rather limited, this thread had helped a lot.
I am planning a 30+ day trip during which we will be camping in remote areas with no hookups to electricity. We will probably not stay at any location for more than 1 night.
My goal: Install a 47 qt ARB fridge freezer either in my vehicle or in my trailer that will be a stand alone system that does not depend on the vehicle system to charge or keep charged a new 900 amp deep cycle the fridge/freezer will be connected to. The battery will be exclusively for the fridge.
In this thread I have learned that a 100 amp solar panel would most likely be sufficient to keep the battery charged. I do plan to have a trickle charger that I can use to keep the battery topped off at night if we do stay in a "civilized" campground that has hookups.
If I have it figured right and I may not, refer to #1 above, the fridge draws .87 A/H and in a 24 hour period (no charging) the draw will be 20.88 A/H. Even without sunlight the fridge should run for quite a while on the 900 amp battery.
With full sunlight on the panel it should have an output of around 5.81 A/H so the battery should be maintained at a full, or near full, capacity during the day. 8 hours of sunlight ought to provide a bit over 46 A/H.
Questions:
Does the panel have to be in full sunlight to produce a charge?
Does vibration effect the operation of a solar panel?
I've simplified this thought process so what have I left out? Again, refer to #1 above :O)
Thanks for any and all help. Again, this thread is very informative.
Great thread.
1. Since my technical expertise involving electrical issues is rather limited, this thread had helped a lot.
I am planning a 30+ day trip during which we will be camping in remote areas with no hookups to electricity. We will probably not stay at any location for more than 1 night.
My goal: Install a 47 qt ARB fridge freezer either in my vehicle or in my trailer that will be a stand alone system that does not depend on the vehicle system to charge or keep charged a new 900 amp deep cycle the fridge/freezer will be connected to. The battery will be exclusively for the fridge.
In this thread I have learned that a 100 amp solar panel would most likely be sufficient to keep the battery charged. I do plan to have a trickle charger that I can use to keep the battery topped off at night if we do stay in a "civilized" campground that has hookups.
If I have it figured right and I may not, refer to #1 above, the fridge draws .87 A/H and in a 24 hour period (no charging) the draw will be 20.88 A/H. Even without sunlight the fridge should run for quite a while on the 900 amp battery.
With full sunlight on the panel it should have an output of around 5.81 A/H so the battery should be maintained at a full, or near full, capacity during the day. 8 hours of sunlight ought to provide a bit over 46 A/H.
Questions:
Does the panel have to be in full sunlight to produce a charge?
Does vibration effect the operation of a solar panel?
I've simplified this thought process so what have I left out? Again, refer to #1 above :O)
Thanks for any and all help. Again, this thread is very informative.
wrcsixeight
Adventurer
900 amp battery... this is cold cranking amps, not capacity. Amp hours or reserve minutes are measures of capacity. A Optima battery rated at 54 amp hours can have over 900 cca. A deep cycle battery rated at 115 amp hours can be rated at 550 cca. CCA is a worthless rating unless you are cranking the engine.
Your solar panel(100 watts, not amps) is unlikely to output it's rating even if you move it every half hour to face directly into the unshaded sun. Any shade and the output drops significantly, not just the % of the panel shaded but a huge percentage more.
Trickle chargers are nearly useless at charging a large battery, unless you have days and days. Get a 10 amp or better charger.
You should absolutely take advantage of whatever juice you can get from alternator to accessory battery.
The ARB fridge figure you quote is probably best case consumption. Low ambient temps, without opening. Expect and plan for 20% higher consumption, and double that if travelling with a woman.
Your solar panel(100 watts, not amps) is unlikely to output it's rating even if you move it every half hour to face directly into the unshaded sun. Any shade and the output drops significantly, not just the % of the panel shaded but a huge percentage more.
Trickle chargers are nearly useless at charging a large battery, unless you have days and days. Get a 10 amp or better charger.
You should absolutely take advantage of whatever juice you can get from alternator to accessory battery.
The ARB fridge figure you quote is probably best case consumption. Low ambient temps, without opening. Expect and plan for 20% higher consumption, and double that if travelling with a woman.
xplorer
New member
Great, thanks. This is good. Always good to learn about something you don't know enough about
Looks like I have to rethink my system. I currently run an Optima battery as primary in the vehicle and maybe all I need to do is get a beefier alternator to keep it and a secondary battery charged. The second one I am hoping to dedicate to run only the fridge at night when camping. I would hope to isolate the second one from the primary at night so it would run the fridge and not drain the primary. Perhaps with a battery isolation switch? Or, just unplug it from the vehicle?
Thanks again, it is appreciated. It is still confusing but I am getting there.
Looks like I have to rethink my system. I currently run an Optima battery as primary in the vehicle and maybe all I need to do is get a beefier alternator to keep it and a secondary battery charged. The second one I am hoping to dedicate to run only the fridge at night when camping. I would hope to isolate the second one from the primary at night so it would run the fridge and not drain the primary. Perhaps with a battery isolation switch? Or, just unplug it from the vehicle?
Thanks again, it is appreciated. It is still confusing but I am getting there.
SoCal_80
Explorer
If you are only staying one night in each place why the need for solar? Keeping things simple why not just charge off f the vehicle's alternator? I don't think a panel will be able to keep up with the fridge since you will be driving during the day and stopping in the evening I assume. With only a few hours of decent sun each day the battery will never fully charge and it will eventually be drawn down.
concretejungle
Adventurer
agree with the above post.
I am in a similar position now with my setup.... running a engel fridge and running it off my starting battery (optima yellow top). I am deciding if i want to keep it this way and just carry a booster pack with me in an emergency (once i jump it off i can leave it running long enough to charge the battery back up). Or, should i wire up a dual battery system (more expensive).....
I am in a similar position now with my setup.... running a engel fridge and running it off my starting battery (optima yellow top). I am deciding if i want to keep it this way and just carry a booster pack with me in an emergency (once i jump it off i can leave it running long enough to charge the battery back up). Or, should i wire up a dual battery system (more expensive).....
concretejungle
Adventurer
Just for information purposes, after reading through this thread i decided to run a driveway experiment. I have a engel fridge wired up through a 12v blue sea outlet in the rear of the truck. I ran 6 gauge wire from the battery back with a 25amp fuse in line. I have a optima yellow top (i will get battery info when i get home this evening) that is about 5 or 6 years old. I tested the voltage at the battery before plugging in the fridge... it was at 12.52v. Last night i plugged the fridge in and set it to the coldest setting (i do have the travel bag on it). I just went home a lunch and checked the voltage after almost 14 hours of running.... the battery is currently at 10.50V. I'll check it again tonight and post back up.
concretejungle
Adventurer
well i would say this experiment was a failure. Just got home and after almost 21 hours of the fridge running, my battery is ready 9.57V ..... and the truck won't start. Which makes sense considering the starter needs 12V to start. Sooooooo i guess you really do need a separate battery for accessories.
Robert Bills
Explorer
Your battery was only at 85% charge when you started your experiment, and fully discharged after 14 hours with the fridge running. http://www.mmbalmainauto.com.au/PDF/State_of_charge_12_volt_batteries.pdf
You may have a charging issue, or your battery may be old and tired.
You should put your battery on a good charger, fully charge it to 12.7 volts, have it load tested, then try your experiment again.
When new, the WallyWorld Group 31 battery in my trailer would run my fridge for 3 days before the battery voltage dropped to 12.2v (50% state of charge). As the battery aged the time to 50% charge dropped.
You may have a charging issue, or your battery may be old and tired.
You should put your battery on a good charger, fully charge it to 12.7 volts, have it load tested, then try your experiment again.
When new, the WallyWorld Group 31 battery in my trailer would run my fridge for 3 days before the battery voltage dropped to 12.2v (50% state of charge). As the battery aged the time to 50% charge dropped.
SoCal_80
Explorer
Ditto that ... I run my single Sears group 31 for 3 days w/o droppng below 12.2 and w/o solar. Ambient temp will obviously make a diff however it sounds like something is not right with your setup.
Jeff Wanamog
Off Road Camper Guy
Tales from the dark (dead battery) side.
The test run above goes to show that there is no way to do the math to come up with the "ideal" set up.
In the test, the frige was set at "it's coldest setting". If there wasn't anything to freeze inside the frige, it probably tried to kill it's self by over cycling. There are so many variables, you can only do your best to plan for the worst.
For single night campers, yes, a solar panel would be a waste of money. But a second, isolated, deep cycle battery is never over kill.
The condition of your starting battery will change ever so slightly every time it is used. By adding a slow constant draw to the starting battery that will drain it below it's normal voltage range is a recipe for disaster. If you are mainly an over night camper, the piece of mind knowing that you have a completely separate secondary electrical system is well worth the investment.
When I was towing with my Tacoma, I had my ARB in the back seat set on the medium shut off setting. My ARB set on medium shuts off @ 11.2 volts. The Tacoma needs 11.3 volts just to operate the fuel pump for the injection. Stuck and I was pissed. That was the last time I only had one battery.
With my 100 series, this will be one of the first changes I will be making and then I link the second car battery to the trailer battery so I will have combined 200 AH of storage. There is no reason to use large cable/wire like 6 ga. because you will never have a large amp draw in this system. But if you have the cable, run it. I have a 200 watt inverter in the trailer and it's sets right at the battery with nice short fat cables.
Just a tale from my experience, it may not be worth .02.
Jeff:beer:
The test run above goes to show that there is no way to do the math to come up with the "ideal" set up.
In the test, the frige was set at "it's coldest setting". If there wasn't anything to freeze inside the frige, it probably tried to kill it's self by over cycling. There are so many variables, you can only do your best to plan for the worst.
For single night campers, yes, a solar panel would be a waste of money. But a second, isolated, deep cycle battery is never over kill.
The condition of your starting battery will change ever so slightly every time it is used. By adding a slow constant draw to the starting battery that will drain it below it's normal voltage range is a recipe for disaster. If you are mainly an over night camper, the piece of mind knowing that you have a completely separate secondary electrical system is well worth the investment.
When I was towing with my Tacoma, I had my ARB in the back seat set on the medium shut off setting. My ARB set on medium shuts off @ 11.2 volts. The Tacoma needs 11.3 volts just to operate the fuel pump for the injection. Stuck and I was pissed. That was the last time I only had one battery.
With my 100 series, this will be one of the first changes I will be making and then I link the second car battery to the trailer battery so I will have combined 200 AH of storage. There is no reason to use large cable/wire like 6 ga. because you will never have a large amp draw in this system. But if you have the cable, run it. I have a 200 watt inverter in the trailer and it's sets right at the battery with nice short fat cables.
Just a tale from my experience, it may not be worth .02.
Jeff:beer:
01 Double Cab
Observer
Sorry to rehash an old thread but I was reading and thought about this.
I wonder if it would be best if one had a expedition trailer and the fridge was mounted in there, to run two cables from each battery post to the rear of the truck and have cables you could connect to a tongue mounted dedicated fridge battery. You could then just start your truck to charge that battery or have the cables hooked up while towing to supply power to the battery mounted on the trailer.
Worse case scenario if you lost your main battery you could use your rear mounted lugs as connection point to use the trailer/fridge battery to restart the truck...
I wonder if it would be best if one had a expedition trailer and the fridge was mounted in there, to run two cables from each battery post to the rear of the truck and have cables you could connect to a tongue mounted dedicated fridge battery. You could then just start your truck to charge that battery or have the cables hooked up while towing to supply power to the battery mounted on the trailer.
Worse case scenario if you lost your main battery you could use your rear mounted lugs as connection point to use the trailer/fridge battery to restart the truck...
cruiserpilot
Adventurer
I just finished reading through this old thread too. If you had heavy enough cable to the rear of the truck you could do as you suggest. I run 2/0 battery cables to the rear of my truck for the rear winch, and there is no power loss whatsoever from the battery. I run a 2/0 jumper to an Anderson plug on the rear bumper for boosting cables, which would be the proper plug for you connect the battery cable to the trailer battery. I've thought of doing something similar to what you are suggesting, I just haven't got the trailer idea figured out, as I'm not sure I want to haul a trailer.
I run two batteries up front now, with the second for 2 winches and future fridge. Work in progress, but this thread has a lot of good info.
I run two batteries up front now, with the second for 2 winches and future fridge. Work in progress, but this thread has a lot of good info.
I just finished reading this thread, too. Thank you, Jeff, for finally making something clear to me:
I got my ARB50 last summer. I wasn't worried when it killed my first battery - when I replaced it, I realized that it was the same age as the vehicle (6 years old), plus I was staying less than a mile from work and working eight days in a row. I wasn't driving enough to charge the battery. I changed the cut off to medium instead of low and started hitting autostart if I woke up during the day (I was working nights, and my refrigerator inside had died). But, it still killed the battery after I got sick at Thanksgiving and forgot I had left it plugged in. I was really irritated because I knew it had that shut off function which I thought was supposed to stop it from killing the battery. What you wrote explains it. I'm going to change it to high next time I use it. And figure out where I can put a second battery and a solar panel.
Laura
I got my ARB50 last summer. I wasn't worried when it killed my first battery - when I replaced it, I realized that it was the same age as the vehicle (6 years old), plus I was staying less than a mile from work and working eight days in a row. I wasn't driving enough to charge the battery. I changed the cut off to medium instead of low and started hitting autostart if I woke up during the day (I was working nights, and my refrigerator inside had died). But, it still killed the battery after I got sick at Thanksgiving and forgot I had left it plugged in. I was really irritated because I knew it had that shut off function which I thought was supposed to stop it from killing the battery. What you wrote explains it. I'm going to change it to high next time I use it. And figure out where I can put a second battery and a solar panel.
Laura