Solar In The Desert

luthj

Engineer In Residence
With an average temp of 30C (86F) a lead acid battery will generally only last 4 years on float service, less in a deep cycling application. What residual capacity do your batteries have at replacement? Almost none? Changing your charging regime or battery type may get you some more life. But if the batteries are truly seeing an average temperature of over 90F, 3 years is very good service. At 120F average temps (not really applicable in this case) most batteries in float service would only last 6-9 months.

It may be more cost effective to switch to a cheaper battery, and just replace every 18 months.
 

john61ct

Adventurer
Many quality deep cycling FLA banks go 8+ years even 13-14 cared for meticulously.

Super high ambient temps probably cut that in half.

But the topic here was more solar controllers than batteries.
 

luthj

Engineer In Residence
Part of his solar needs are to improve battery life I thought?

A general rule of thumb for a vented lead-acid battery is that the battery life is halved for every 15°F (8.3°C) above 77°F (25°C). This refers to the average battery temp over its life. So about half normal life in the mid 90s.

I still believe an ACR is the best option.
 

Ducky's Dad

Explorer
Part of his solar needs are to improve battery life I thought?
That is about 90% correct. The other 10% is to augment alternator charge when the truck is parked in the desert with the fridge running. In hot weather, I can usually only get about 24 hrs of fridge run time on my pair of G34 Optima house batteries on a full charge, so if I can get a solar controller that will work during the heat of the day, that mitigates the need to drive the truck to recharge those batteries. A pair of Northstar 34s will give me about 20 ah more than the Optimas, and a pair of Odysseys will give me about 26 ah more than the Optimas. Just learned today that Northstar has lower resistance than Odyssey and Northstars are fine on 14.4-14.6 absorption charge, while Odysseys need 14.7. So Northstars should be OK with the controllers like the GoPower that are preset at 14.4V. The Victron PWM-Duo is programmable at 14.6 and 14.8, but comes from the factory at 14.4. There are Victron Duo controllers in stock at the Maine warehouse, but all the Victron Duo monitors are still in Europe, apparently only available here on special order. The Victron battery that I wanted as my starting battery is not being imported into the US, and the Victron house batteries are somewhere in the Atlantic headed for Maine. Can't wait for those, so maybe just going with three Northstars. Have not been able to find any AGM or lithium true deep cycles with decent capacity that will fit my available space for the house batteries.

Back to the 90% correct part. That 90% of the solar is intended to keep all three batteries topped off when the truck is parked for prolonged periods between trips and the fridge is not running. The alternator will bulk charge everything but the solar should take care of the long-tail absorption charge and parasitic drain, and a two-bank controller should provide whatever the two banks need, independently of each other when isolated. The GoPower will work up to 185F ambient, while the Victron is good up to 131F. I'm still at home and it's 113F today.

Can't use FLA for the house batteries because space constraints require that they be mounted on their sides. Gel is out because of sensitivity to charging profiles. Can't find lithiums that are a good fit for the house battery boxes. So back to AGM, and Northstar has the advantage over Odyssey because of the resistance issue. Could go with Dekas as a cheaper alternative, but changing batteries is such a hassle that I'd rather spend more and change them less frequently. FullRiver advises against using their Full Throttle dual purpose AGMs in my application.
 
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Ducky's Dad

Explorer
Continuing to poke around and I found an interesting new battery from Deka/East Penn. They call it their "thermal shielding Fahrenheit technology," and it's designed for high temperature operation in semis, comes only in Grp31, P/N 9F31. Could not find any specs on their website, but a knowledgeable dealer told me that it is 105ah, 925CCA, 1050CA, true deep cycle AGM. Comes from Deka with a two year warranty but he'll give me three years as a guinea pig, since he has not sold any yet. $300 + tax, and a pair of Deka Grp34s for the house batteries and I'm out the door for about $675 with three year replacement warranty. Seems like a decent deal, and can't be any worse than what I have been doing. Calling Deka tomorrow for details.

http://www.eastpennmanufacturing.co...re-Your-Batteries-Protected-brochure-2217.pdf

http://www.eastpennmanufacturing.com/wp-content/uploads/Breaking-the-Heat-Wave-brochure-2144.pdf
 

john61ct

Adventurer
I'd be surprised if the Deka AGM gives better service than Northstar or Odyssey.

They make great FLA and GEL is good, but AGMs not so great.

But the heat-resistance may be a deciding factor.

If you're going to mod your boxes to take a bigger batt I'd go for GC+G31, or if only one then GC.

If willing to go LFP you should find something in bare cells that will fit and give great AH, but heat / lifespan remains an issue, lots pricier and DYI BMS is complex.
 

Ducky's Dad

Explorer
Can't mod the boxes enough to take anything significantly bigger than the 34s. Working around the skid plates and body mounts limits where I can put batteries and there is no spot under there that would easily take a 31. Thinking about using the Deka Fahrenheit 31 as a starting battery. I know the reputation of Deka AGMs is spotty, but the dealer I spoke with told me he sells 10 Dekas for every Optima and has very few warranty claims. Taking this with a grain of salt.

If I were building this truck again, I'd put the big compressor on the frame rail and the house batteries on the front core support. Plenty of room there for a pair of 27s and still have decent air flow to the radiator and trans cooler. But I'm NOT building this truck again.
 

rayra

Expedition Leader
Hmmmm. If we are really worried about sustain operations at over 110F, then take a page from dwh's book and buy the minimum sized FLA you can get away with and replace every year.

After a year in Djibouti, I have no desire to live in over 100F temperatures for any length of time. If you are really going to get that hot for any length of time, then I suspect that battery performance may be the least of you worries.

Don't have to go to Djibouti for that. My booty is roasting here in SoCal heat waves last couple weeks, temps over 110F. Overnight its managing to dip under 80F before dawn.

lasertemps180726.jpg


Painted plywood roof deck on the Suburban was 150F, concrete sidewalk in the sun 135F, 90F in the shaded slab in the garage.

Time to go screw off er work on the pool.
 
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john61ct

Adventurer
I bet we'll see max rated operating temps on all kinds of gear rising over the next few years.

In Holland, they're running the gritter trucks dropping salt on the city roads to stop the asphalt from melting.
 

Ducky's Dad

Explorer
Got mixed input from Deka yesterday, waiting for a call back from their "solar expert."

But I did find something that looks like it may be a winner. V-Max Batteries in Michigan makes a true deep cycle AGM in the magical Grp 34 that should fit my house boxes, and they are 75ah, so I can now stuff 150ah of deep cycle into the house boxes, and they make a variety of AGMs in Grp 31 for both starting/dual purpose and true deep cycle. They have a TDC Grp31 that is 135ah but only 730 CCA, or a dual purpose G31 at 100ah and 1200 CCA. I was not aware of their Grp 34 TDCs because their website lists them under medical batteries, but it looks like a BCI standard Grp 34. And they should all charge happily on the Go Power two-bank controller at 14.4V AGM setting.

https://www.vmaxtanks.com/XTR34-75-12Volts-75AH-Deep-Cycle-XTREME-AGM-Battery_p_164.html

https://www.vmaxtanks.com/XTR31-135-12Volts-135AH-Deep-Cycle-XTREME-AGM-Battery-_p_176.html

https://www.vmaxtanks.com/XCA31-1400-Xtreme-Cranking-Amps-Deep-Cycle-AGM-Battery-_p_190.html

Warranty is only one year and there are no local dealers, so that is a bit of a concern. Anybody have experience with or comments on the V-Max batteries?
 

luthj

Engineer In Residence
I have seen a few folks using the Vmax units. No major issues that I have read/seen. I do remember that Vmax would not provide (or was unable) the 100% full return amps spec. Which I found unusual.
 

john61ct

Adventurer
Vmax are nowhere near the quality wrt deep cycling longevity of Odyssey Lifeline Northstar **in normal ** circumstances.

Packing more AH to a given size usually means shorter cycle lifespan, or even fudged numbers (maybe not 20-hr rate?).

But with your size constraint and especially the extreme heat issue killing your longevity anyway, they may well suit your specific use case just fine.
 

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