Solar vs Generator use

[Robert Bills]

I have solar power on my "to do (eventually)" list for my trailer, and the PowerFilm unit is quite intriguing.

However, and I hate to start a debate that may need it's own thread, the cost-benefit analysis between solar and a small Honda or Yamaha dino-powered generator is keeping me stuck in the "planning" stage.

Cost/Benefit
Sure, I know that solar is silent, renewable energy, but the initial cost of the panel and controller is about $250-300 dollars more than the used-but-not-abused Honda and Yamaha generators that I have found on CraigsList and other Internet sources. At $2.17/gal for regular (what I paid this morning), I could run more than 100 gallons through a small generator before the cost of generator plus fuel would equal the initial purchase price of a solar system.

My calculations of anticipated generator usage suggest that that I would use approximately 1 gallon of fuel per 2-day weekend (and likely less), with that use primarily if not entirely during daylight hours or other times that other nearby vehicles are already operating or the sound of the generator would not disturb others. Since my trailer typically gets out no more than one weekend each month (10 months of the year), plus about two weeks in the summer, it appears that I could operate a small generator for 4 years + before the acquisition and operating cost would equal the initial purchase price of a solar system.

Noise
I know one of the main arguments in favor of solar vs. a generator is the lack of noise. However, those of us on this board are typically engaged in "mechanized expeditions" where there is already vehicle noise. I am having a difficult time reconciling the argument in favor of "silent energy" with the reality that a small Honda generator, used responsibly, isn't going to add much if anything to the ambient noise of an offroading weekend. In fact, such a generator makes less noise than the vehicles we use to get offroad.

Versatility
There are times that I need 110v and don't have access to "shore power." (Power outages, projects beyond the reach of extension cords, quickly charging other people's batteries (and some of my own) , etc.) It seems to me that the versatility of a generator is a plus.

Ease of Packing
The flat solar panels are bulky, and the configuration of my trailer is such that it is actually more of a problem to find space for a flat solar panel than a small generator. The folding panels are another story, but until the larger capacity folding solar panels have been long-term tested for durability, I will have to reserve judgment.

Those are just my thoughts. What are yours?

 

[ksj]

Robert,

Please do not take offense, but I'd rather not camp next to you. You'll have a noisy, smelly generator going and I just can't stand those things.

I have a solar panel that keeps my Engel and electrical stuff going without a sound, and has zero impact on the environment.

Perhaps you hang out when on an expedition with folks who make lots of noise, but I can say unequivocally that I get away to get away from that attitude and it's accompanying noise and pollution.

Again, I don't mean to offend you or any others that take the same approach, but if you see my rig & trailer out there sometime, somewhere, please don't camp next to me...

Regards,

Kevin

 

[goodtimes]

Generators certainly have their place...IMO, remote camping is not one of them (I like it quiet) They also take up a lot of room...a lot more than the flexible film solar panels. And of course, they are noisy....

My question is, if you (anyone) doesn't sit in one spot for days on end...why have either? With a simple dual battery set up, I can leave my jeep sit for a couple days, fridge and radios running...and have no worries about power.

Even when we take my girlfriends Patriot, we plug a "jump start box" into the cig. lighter, plug the fridge into the box....and we have a "really" cheap and simple dual battery set up (the sig lighter is keyed to the ignition). This works moderately well if we move every day, and pay attention to what we put in and take out of the fridge. Heck, the whole set up cost me less than $35.

 

[WFTW]

I think Robert makes some valid points.

My trailer will have both a generator and solar panels, as well as a dual battery set-up in the Jeep and trailer (dual dual battery set-ups...hahaha). I view the solar panels as a nice option for when the sun is shining and the generator as a more reliable back-up (it's a Honda).

As for the pollution debate...come on. We drive large vehicles with oversized tires loaded to the hilt and you're going to play the pollution card with what a 1000w Honda generator puts out? Seriously?

Robert...I'll gladly camp next to you. I'm sure you won't be making anymore noise than the mortars, rockets, and controlled detonations made when I was sleeping in Iraq...or will you be eating massive amounts of chili prior to going to sleep?

 

[Martyn]

Everyone has to do their own assessments on their power requirements and come up with a viable solution for them. We recommend starting with a dual battery system as it's the most cost effective way of providing extra power. But it's heavy, a group 31 battery weighs 60 lbs, and a battery has a limited lifespan.

A solar panel will elongate the time you can stay in a base camp without moving. For most people who spend 5 to 7 days in a single location a solar panel is idea.

Generators provide instant power, but as we have seen there are at least two trains of thought on using them in remote locations. There is obviously the noise factor and the local pollution that has to be deal with.

For what it's worth, I'm in the persuasion that remote locations should stay as pristine as possible. For me that include noise.

 

[mtbcoach]

I think that the folding solar panels are an outstanding option (although a bit pricey) for keeping things running. I appreciate Martyn's effort to bring quality products like this to the masses along with their testing/feedback on performance.

Now, to further hijack the thread...I'm a relative noob to much of this and building my first trailer. I've read through many of the build up threads but one thing I haven't seen (or maybe glossed over) is if the ability to charge the dual batteries of the trailer via the tow vehicle's dual batteries/charge system is what people are doing?

I know that there would have to be some relative large gauge wire/connector run in order to do this but it seems like a good option to have while moving from one location to another, charging the system while on the move...

 

[JIMBO]

:sombrero: Spoken like a true explorer

Everyone has to do their own assessments on their power requirements and come up with a viable solution for them. We recommend starting with a dual battery system as it's the most cost effective way of providing extra power. But it's heavy, a group 31 battery weighs 60 lbs, and a battery has a limited lifespan.

A solar panel will elongate the time you can stay in a base camp without moving. For most people who spend 5 to 7 days in a single location a solar panel is idea.

Generators provide instant power, but as we have seen there are at least two trains of thought on using them in remote locations. There is obviously the noise factor and the local pollution that has to be deal with.

For what it's worth, I'm in the persuasion that remote locations should stay as pristine as possible. For me that include noise.

I have never stayed remote in the Sierras, for longer than 9 days, but My solar use, fulfilled any needs and getting away from noise is kinda required

:coffeedrink::victory::safari-rig::safari-rig: JIMBO

 

[teotwaki]

Another factor to consider in the solar calculations is available sunlight. At a fixed installation you can increase the size (wattage) of your solar installation to make up for cloudy days. With a trailer and the space limitations it may not be a practical solution to pack more solar modules. You may have to run your vehicle more often to recharge or fall back to a gas generator solution. Either way plan to consume more gasoline in your energy budget during overcast weather.

 

[tdesanto]

Solar for me

If you're going to an OHV park or a state park, then I guess generators are ok, because you're really not getting away from it all.

But, I usually don't frequent crowded places for the same reason I can't stand generators: because I seek peace, quiet, and solitude.

I can't imagine going to the North Rim, the Canyonlands, the San Juans, or even the Chisos Mountains and having to listen to a generator.

Also, I don't understand the argument that we shouldn't mind the sound of the generator, because we like to use our trucks. Sure, we use our trucks to get to a location, but it's not like I leave my truck running once I get there, and I usually got to places that don't have a lot of other trucks driving by all the time.

So, solar for me. Clean, easy, and available in compact sizes. As for cost? Still fairly expensive, but not so bad when you factor in the cost of a new generator and the fuel to run it.

Think of the purchase of a solar system as an investment in your ability to get out there and stay out there for as long as you want.

 

[teotwaki]

I have solar power on my "to do (eventually)" list for my trailer, and the PowerFilm unit is quite intriguing.

However, and I hate to start a debate that may need it's own thread, the cost-benefit analysis between solar and a small Honda or Yamaha dino-powered generator is keeping me stuck in the "planning" stage.

Cost/Benefit
Sure, I know that solar is silent, renewable energy, but the initial cost of the panel and controller is about $250-300 dollars more than the used-but-not-abused Honda and Yamaha generators that I have found on CraigsList and other Internet sources. At $2.17/gal for regular (what I paid this morning), I could run more than 100 gallons through a small generator before the cost of generator plus fuel would equal the initial purchase price of a solar system.

SNIP..........

Well, I'd like to offer up that it is not quite fair to compare the dollars for brand-new foldable panels with a used generator's price. A new Yamaha 1kw EF1000iS generator is $750 to $850

I bought a barely used Solaris 26 Watt folding solar panel here on the forum for $200. So in terms of bucks-per-watt I could get 60 Watts of solar power for roughly $460, about what a used Yamaha can be scored on a lucky Craigslist listing.

If you are on a budget you could go with a used single 2.6 to 3 Amp rigid panel from Craigslist or a local flea market or ham radio swap meet.

 

[RETROFIT]

How about neither ...

I am in the design process for a spring build of an overland tent trailer witch will be built off of the rear half of a Disco1 frame with complete diff and suspension.

The power of this beast will come from 3 Odyssey 1750 batteries witch will be charged by the movement of the trailer on the road via an alternator (same as my truck for redundancy) strapped on top of the trailer diff and actuated via a strap system similar to the one on the truck. Everything will be protected from the elements but not waterproof (just water tight). I know it might not be the ultimate in length of use as the batteries have their limits but for an Engel, radios, lights, laptop, chargers for all the electronics ... it should be good for a week (that is 7 days) according to my calculations at witch point I will have to hit the road for a charge that will be monitored from the truck.

My 02 cents.

Pat

 

[IH8RDS]

I'm with you Rob. Those solar panels don't work well if you travel during the day and set up camp at night or pre dusk. They also are dependant on the weather. Both have there good qualities, but I'll stick with my generator and extension cord. :ylsmoke:

 

[EMrider]

I'm with you Rob. Those solar panels don't work well if you travel during the day and set up camp at night or pre dusk. They also are dependant on the weather. Both have there good qualities, but I'll stick with my generator and extension cord. :ylsmoke:

Me too. Some of the newer portable generators are very quiet. My eu2000 is not much louder than a group of people chatting around the campfire. And when I use an extension cord to place it behind a bush/rock, it is barely audible. I like solitude too and only fire it up to charge or top off the house batteries. But IMHO, the flexibility and reliability of a small generator still beats the solar option.
R

 

[Martyn]

I'm with you Rob. Those solar panels don't work well if you travel during the day and set up camp at night or pre dusk. They also are dependant on the weather. Both have there good qualities, but I'll stick with my generator and extension cord. :ylsmoke:

If you do a little lateral thinking there would be hundreds of ways of collecting energy from a solar panel while traveling. I think it's well worth mulling over.

Weather is a factor when it comes to solar panels. But being cloudy, overcast, or even rainy doesn't mean that the panels stop working. It means they work less efficiently.

Converting over to solar requires some long term planning. After all you're not going to replace your generator with a solar panel and an inverter and hope to power up a microwave.

The solar option has to be worked in tandem with efficient 12 volt appliances.

What I see as one of the biggest obstacles for people is that Solar requires pre-planning. It requires doing an accurate energy assessment, and calculating how long you may go without recharging from the tow vehicle. A generator requires gas and an extension cord.

Solar is the energy of the future. Some people are first adopters, and others will become users sometime down the road. Generators are the easy choice, but easy isn't always best.

 

[JIMBO]

:sombrero: Heh-heh, ya Martyn, last summer, I always trickle charged my trailer battery, while enroute between spots

Course now that I've got the Engle 35 mounted right there I've come up with a new spot, but I've been to busy mounting a spare tire on my trailer

Can't beat solar

:victory::suning::safari-rig::safari-rig: JIMBO