Source Possibilty: Extrusion Connectors For DIY Sandwich Panel Makers

[john61ct]

Where does polyiso fall in there?

I know incompatible with some resins, but best R-value for extreme temp insulation, especially skinning with XPS on the freezing side.

Fully encapsulating against moisture is a given.

 

[BrettMavriK]

So, if FRP and Filon are so horrible, why are they used?
What are you using?

I wouldn't use EPS. it absorbs moisture.

 

[BrettMavriK]

I am reading elsewhere of builders having great results with FRP or Filon.
Holding up just fine.

 

[opp]

Just use real trailtop fiberglass Components if you need a hard frame. Can be any thickness of wall

 

[BrettMavriK]

The frp/filon is a horrible product for panel strength. I have tried it. Not being discouraging but giving you feedback.

Kevin

Anyone else want to chime in on Why FRP/ Filon are so horrible for composite sandwich panel construction...?
I have no experience with it yet in making panels. Only what I've read about others using it for skins.

 

[BrettMavriK]

ummm.....

 

[BrettMavriK]

Filon ? Are you serious ? Thats stuff associated with massmarket RVs, Therefore absolute shït in the view of Legitimate 'ExPo Guys.
Btw, "FRP" should be more precisely defined in this 'expo context. FRP broadly covers alot of polymer & fiber products. My Makita tools are made from it afterall.

Again, I'm not a Legitimate 'Expo Guy....
Of course Filon is associated with mass market R.V.'s, and with good reason....
Verkstad........FILON IS FRP!!!

Fiberglass Sidewalls for Recreational Vehicles by Crane Composites

www.cranecomposites.com

Filon is a Fiber Reinforced Panel (FRP) of Fiberglass Strands and Polyester or Epoxy Resin, then coated with a smooth Gel Coat on one side.
Epoxy Resin is more sought after because it doesn't absorb moisture like the Polyester Resin does.
The biggest enemy of Foam Core Sandwich Composite Panels
is MOISTURE.
Blistering, Delamination... almost purely the cause of Moisture Intrusion.
This is why, Kevin, I would never use EPS Foam. It Absorbs Moisture, where XPS foam Doesn't hardly at all.

Another alarming thing I sort of knew, but the application is destructive to these Foam Composite panels, is the use of PROPANE
for cooking and heating inside the camper. One pound of propane produces 1.6 pounds of water vapor!
Talk about a Delamination Threat! So, I won't be using propane as a cooking/heating source in the camper I build whatsoever.
(but that's another story way later in the build)

So, by Laminating A Good Quality XPS Foam with an Epoxy Resin Based FRP Panel of the Thicker Type ON BOTH SIDES OF THE FOAM,
and using a Quality Epoxy adhesive binder, as well as coating the foam edges with epoxy for sealing,
Can create a very strong, rigid, and long lasting Composite Sandwich Panel.

This is NOT the Only Forum in which I am seeking information, and I am beginning to be glad I have diversified, from what I so far have gathered here.

 

[BrettMavriK]

Do what you want, Kevin. You don't have to sell me on your master plan. I won't be going that direction whatsoever.
I hope it works out for you and you sell a ton of them.
My quest is for knowledge, and what you are doing is giving me that somewhat; but it is just not the knowledge I seek.

My post here as the OP is to get a quarry on making FRP and XPS Composite Sandwich panels of a Common Interest, where the materials are readily available
generally across the USA, the then arrive at a thickness desired for commissioning an aluminum company to make a nice extrusion to capture the wall ends, and connect them at 90 degrees
with a nice rounded corner. If enough interest could be had on a common consensus of panel thickness, then this Extrusion would be available to others.
The ability for DIY Builders to make their own panels affordably, and then utilize a beautiful rounded extrusion panel connector for a really professional look over using sharp angle.
So far, you've haven't done much but tout your design of a complete angle iron steel frame with EPS foam panels glued in that are skinned with phenolic panels and coated with Raptor Liner, or whatever... To me, this sort of defeats the purpose of why one would venture in the route of making Light Weight Foam Composite Sandwich Panels in the first place, but hey, To Each His Own.
As you have said in the beginning of this thread, "You're Way Ahead Of Me".... well good for you, as we all start somewhere....BUT....
I'd like this thread to stay on point if it could,,,Please.

Alast, I am starting to think I should just walk away from this thread on this forum, as it just isn't generating the interest and feedback I was hoping for.

 

[BrettMavriK]

NOPE.
Kevin, like I said, won't be going in THAT direction whatsoever....I want a Light Weight Rigid Camper.
If you like, I have quite a few interesting links along with tests on FRP and XPS Composite Panels.
XPS and Filon, if done correctly Can Be Very Strong And Long Lasting. (sorry, it didn't work for you)
I have been very busy in my search as of late; Looking Elsewhere.

 

[BrettMavriK]

If one goes to expense of custom extrusion, might as well design it with large enough radius and inner flange is adjustable to accomodate variable panels thickness, a range 50-75mm for example.

As an aside, I worked at a Sapa plant about 6 months, its a facinating thing to see extrusions made, especially the hollow profiles and solid joints created between individual infeed sections.
Think about it... essentially its a playdough machine. But while the aluminum is quite hot, its no where near melting temperature.

YEP! Just like a Play-Dough Fun Factory you had as a kid.
I would like to start with a first extrusion for walls around 2", but
later on, maybe some extrusion for thicker walls could heed for the call.

 

[The Artisan]

NOPE.
Kevin, like I said, won't be going in THAT direction whatsoever....I want a Light Weight Rigid Camper.
If you like, I have quite a few interesting links along with tests on FRP and XPS Composite Panels.
XPS and Filon, if done correctly Can Be Very Strong And Long Lasting. (sorry, it didn't work for you)
I have been very busy in my search as of late; Looking Elsewhere.

Ok cleaned up your thread. Will leave you with one last thought. When building I was told min 14 guage steel cage for my 12x7x7 pod. When I looked at extrusions I needed to do 1/4" min thickness in plastic to equal the same strength.
Sorry if you thought I was trying to push my products that was not my intentions. Just trying to save you headaches. Build a test panel 4x8 panel with what have learned. Test it hit with a 2x4 etc. If it dents or cracks the filon you will personally know not to use it.
Kevin

 

[The Artisan]

YEP! Just like a Play-Dough Fun Factory you had as a kid.
I would like to start with a first extrusion for walls around 2", but
later on, maybe some extrusion for thicker walls could heed for the call.

I have seen home made extrusion machines and they used recycled plastic bottles. Pretty cool
Kevin

 

[BrettMavriK]

WHAT!?!? Really?
Recycled bottles, wow, that IS cool.
I wonder if they reinforced it with fiberglass strand....
Hey, that's a recycled FRP Profile!

 

[BrettMavriK]

Okay, So what if the Extrusion was FRP as well, instead of aluminum????
Aluminum is still expensive, and Commodities Holders (Crooks) are holding it hostage and driving up the price.
FRP Extrusions may just be the way to go.
Hell, maybe I can make it myself.....hmmmmmm.

Products | Standard Structural Products

We manufacture and design FRP shapes and profiles to create cost-effective, high-performance structures. Learn more about our standard structural products.

www.creativepultrusions.com

 

[The Artisan]

WHAT!?!? Really?
Recycled bottles, wow, that IS cool.
I wonder if they reinforced it with fiberglass strand....
Hey, that's a recycled FRP Profile!

It was cool and they are not expensive to make. Look on youtube. I would use proven plastic chips from a store. All that stuff is caustic, who knows what will come off a plastic bottle ?
Maybe a cheap way to test.
Kevin