Splicing Amsteel - Eyes, fids, and length adjustment factor

[FlyFishermen]

I am working on some 9/16" Amsteel extensions with soft eyes here and thought I would post my progress. I wanted to throw out there a reminder that when you bury a tail in the standing line the standing line ends up shorter - it is expanding to accommodate the bury inside its strands. That expansion is taken up in the form of shortening the line.

Samson recommends 2 Fids in the bury for a 12 strand class I eye splice.
1 Fid on 9/16" line = 12.25"
A 2-Fid Bury = 24.5"

After tapering the ends according to the Samson guide (6 strands left at the tip of the bury) the standing line on my extensions shrunk from the starting 2 Fid / 24.5" measurement to 21.75". That is a loss of 2.75", or 88.78% (1-.8878 = .1122) of the starting length (standing line covering the bury, the rest of the line is unchanged as there is no bury inside to soak up the standing line length).

Here is a simplified run down of figuring the total line length required vs. finished length:

• Known Starting Values

1. Finished Length
2. Amount of line in Eye
3. Of course, the line size and thus Fid length

• Calculation

[Total Line Length] = [Desired finished length] + [1 eye line length] + [4 Fids] + [4 Fids *.1122]

• Example

25ft desired finished length
15" eye loop line length

[25ft] + [15in] + [4x 12.25 = 49in] + [5.5in] = 30.79ft

I made all but one of my extensions today and this came out within an inch of the desired length. With no tension on the rope it will be a bit smaller.

When I was making the extensions I measured with the above calculation (different desired lengths, the rest of the numbers were the same) then once the rope was cut I measured 2 fids in from each end (bury), then 15" (eye), then another 2 fids, and then 2.75" for the adjustment. Then I tapered the ends according to the Samson guidelines. Then I buried the tail. With the line stretch after the taper was cut there was about 1-2" overlap past the last mark I made.

 

[Jamin_GX]

Interesting, thanks for sharing. I've been meaning to learn how to do this sort of thing when I find the time. Hopefully someday soon. Splicing definitely has its benefits.

 

[FlyFishermen]

Yea splicing this rope isn't hard. You can get by without a Fid, but if you are doing much work with it (Im making 6 extensions for example) I would buy one. For the extra $10-15 for the fid it makes life a whole lot easier.

I use masking tape and the tape by itself on the tapers can snag the internal fibers. With the tail taped to the fid it slides right through.

Another recommendation is to use some webbing on the eyes for abrasion protection. I am still on the hunt for some. I have heard for 1/2" rope 1" tubular works. My line is 9/16" so I don't think that will work - too tight. I think I have some 1" actually, I'll look around and if I find it I'll try a piece and see what happens. You don't want to wear the eyes out on abrasion. In fact, another nice thing about the Amsteel in how easy it is to work with replacing thimbles and chafe guards is easy. Depending on the splicing technique (see Krissplicing.com for a video on winch line thimble replacement) there may be more work involved and line handling, such as a tubular thimble on a winch line, but with the class I samson eye splice about the hardest thing would be if the bury is lock-stitched you would have to remove the stitch. The line works like a chinese finger trap, otherwise.

 

[FlyFishermen]

I dug around and found my webbing here. I have a few different runs of it I've used in search & rescue training etc. Of the 3 runs I found 2 of them are the same style - a more "coarse" weave, and are right at or a hair under 1" outside width when flattened. The third kind is a tigher/finer weave and comes out to 1-1/32" outside width when flattened. So, this being bigger, I decided to try it.

Long story short - it works, but it is real tight and makes the rope in the eyes stiff because the rope is compressed - almost like being under tension - so the it can squeeze through at all. You need a tapered end to start the webbing. I have some runs I cut for soft shackles and the ends were taped (I measure off what I need then wrap the mark with tape before I cut - this way it compresses all the strands and keeps them neat through the cut). I tried the webbing on that first but there was no way to start it. With the taper the webbing has something to expand over gradually.

The length of the webbing is 10.5". The eye length is 15" so this works out pretty well. I didn't want to use too much of the run of webbing I have. I cut 4 pieces so I can do up two extensions (a 50ft and 25ft). I will try and track down some webbing and order the appropriate sizes for the rest.

I would imagine this webbing would work well for 1/2".

 

[Jamin_GX]

Adding webbing or rope to protect the eyes makes sense. I want to make some lines for my tree stand ladders as well as a winch extension line.

Where do you typically order the Amsteel from? I've googled a few places but prices seem to be all over the map.

 

[FlyFishermen]

I ordered all mine from Redden Marine. Others here on the forums recommended them. They are pretty good to deal with, but if you order call them. Typically their bulk discount is at 600ft as that is how much comes on a spool. Others have mentioned in the past they did price breaks at certain quantities, maybe over 100ft or so.

What I would recommend is to look over the strength chart and gauge what size you need based off the minimum strength rating. In my case, I landed on the 9/16" because my big winch is 18000lbs. With a block, doubled over line, that is possibly 36,000lbs of pull. So I am sizing everything for 36,000. The 9/16" minimum strength is 36,500. Next size down is 1/2" and it is 30,600 for the minimum strength - not quite where I wanted to be.

I will throw out there that for utility stuff with the smaller lines you may find the ease of working with a larger rope a better goal than the strength rating. For example - I got a 300ft run of 1/8" Amsteel for tower work (ham radio antennas, etc). The minimum strength rating on it is 2300lbs and the most weight I probably have ever lifted to the top of a tower is 150-200lbs. WAY overkill on the strength rating, but the 1/8" line is real small. My small winch (Superwinch Terra 45 sr) uses 1/4" line and after using that for a while I find the 1/4" line is more workable for me, and a thicker line would be even better. In the past I've always used 3/8" nylon rope and find it adequate. 7/16" or around 11mm is what I used to use doing indoor rock climbing and that is about the perfect size if doing much rope work.

After you know the size you want then figure up how much you need. I would over-estimate. What ever runs you think you need, round up to the nearest foot. Then add everything up and add about 10%. It is better to have some left over than be a pinch short.

Once you know what sizes and how much you want go on Redden's website and see what the price/ft is. Work up an order sheet for everything you want. Then CALL them and tell them what you want to order. See what the prices come out to be. Then check if they have any quantity discounts. The lady I ordered from asked if I was a supplier and reselling, what my purpose for the rope was, etc. I had 320ft of 9/16" and 300ft 1/8" (plus a few more shorter runs) so she added the lengths to give me the 600ft price break on the lines. That trimmed about $50 off my order cost.

 

[FlyFishermen]

I want to make some lines for my tree stand ladders as well as a winch extension line.

Just a thought - I am not sure what your exact purpose is for the tree stand, but if this is anything that will be "permanent" rope might not be the best solution as it breaks down quicker over time when exposed to the elements. For something seasonal (for a week long hunting season, for example) you'd be OK. I just wouldn't leave it out year round.

 

[Jamin_GX]

All great info. My tree stand ladder sticks are used with my "run and gun" stand. Usually put it up same day and take it down that night. Longest would be over a weekend if I find a hotspot.

I have the Terra 45 with 1/4" Amsteel on my Polaris Ranger. Great winch!

 

[Beowulf]

Here is how I made mine.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/77016-Winch-Extension-Making-your-own-a-tutorial