Regcabguy
Oil eater.
My friend sells them and won't consider selling me one without a full factory sponsored service agreement. I'll keep the '05 Pilot.
Subaru owners: Let's see your expedition rigs!
- Thread starter Sebas
- Start date
calicamper
Expedition Leader
In my region lots of heavy daily commuting then long hot summer loaded trips Sierras etc my local dealer prior to selling out his techs were awesome. They said most of the cvts have pretty cruddy fluid by 60,000 miles and should likely get a drain fill by that point. Today same region all 6 dealers within an hour drive act as if the cvt runs on magical pixy piss that never needs to get the basic drain fill service and I doubt they do more than one every few months.
70+k with over heat issues I bet it was on the low side from the factory and the dealers couldn’t pop the fill / fluid level plug to check 4 minute check ?♂️.
It could be the heat exchanger boogered up also? Best of luck
calicamper
Expedition Leader
If I were shopping Outback/ Forester Trek etc today the Bronco sport would trump them for a number of reasons some big due to established decent engines and transmission history along with better capability both terrain and rear hatch / shape etc. ?
I was huge on Subaru for 20+ yrs fantastic value great company but they cut back on parts quality made huge profits highest per unit profit in the auto biz all while loosing what made Subarus so great. .
I was huge on Subaru for 20+ yrs fantastic value great company but they cut back on parts quality made huge profits highest per unit profit in the auto biz all while loosing what made Subarus so great. .
utherjorge
Observer
Well, the Bronco Sport has those issues with the rear diff (that no one knows if Ford will address), and at a higher price point, and in a different class, the new Defender is a thorough disaster. If anyone has tried to off-road/overland a RAV4 TRD, I haven't seen it. Does the lack of a body-on-frame option mean all suffer due to compromises made? It appears so.
I just know that back in the day, a Subaru Loyale (or whatever else they were called) could climb trees and never strand you.
utherjorge
Observer
Not sure if you're serious or trolling, but why not.
I assume you aren't taking issue with the well well-known and documented concerns with the engines (getting better, -ish?) and CVTs (not at all getting better)?
I'll give you a hint: it's the same sort of reason that there hasn't been an uproar over the catastrophic engine problems that Kia/Hyundai have.
s.e.charles
Well-known member
no; seriously want to know the good and bad of it. of the honda CRV & toyota RAV 4 too for that matter. one of those will be my next vehicle when i decide to dump the tacoma. my truckin' days are waning, and i want to focus on a smallish suv which doesn't come luxuriously appointed so i can tear out the back seats and have another project.
utherjorge
Observer
I'm very biased towards old vehicles. I actually was going to PM you so as to not fully hijack this thread (which we've all kinda done anyway, my apologies for my role in that). I have a 2004 GX470 that I looked for, and my offroad rig is a 1999 Amigo filled with offroad and overland shenanigans.
You need to establish what matters to you the most. There are some Subies I would seek out, and for very specific reasons. I also prefer a manual, and as long as I can I will have something I have to manually shift. At 48 years old...I hope that's a very long time indeed.
So, "what matters to you" includes how much you want to have to spend to upgrade, how many choices do you want to have available to you when you upgrade, what mileage do you want, and how much space, and so on. With my Amigo, I wanted a stick and the V-6, which are working well. If and when the engine dies, I will upgrade to a Lexus V-8.
There are absolutely trustworthy Subie models of olden days you could use as a platform. I can't say as I've seen a lot of built-up older RAVs but I have seen enough built-up older 1st and 2nd-gen CRVs to know it can be done. If you wanted body-on-frame, you have choices...but most of them older.
If you want new, and with a warranty, that's where it gets funky. A very good friend of mine who works for a new Subie dealership is very interested to see their new off-road trim. No one (NOOOOOO ONNNNNNNNNE) trusts the Subie CVT. Just like what owners seem to know, if you don't mind going slow, it's fine. Anything technical, it grenades. You will again and again see a comment like "if Subie made a 'regular' automatic again, or even a stick, I'd buy one right now." I would also add that I had head gasket problems in one even after that problem had been solved.
If you want new, with a warranty, you really have to decide how much you need. The Ford Maverick, about to be introduced next week, is one lots of people are watching. What will its (supposed) off road equipment include? The rear diff from the Bronco sport overheats, so that's "a thing" that happens. With the (larger) Bronco coming out, they clearly have been listening to what people want, at least a little. Would they allow for a better diff to cater to the few that need it? If you had one of those Honda Elements, you could bolt in a CRV diff in the rear to make yours less likely to fail. Will someone develop a DIY hack for their Bronco Sport as they start to come out of warranty? Time will tell.
How old ya wanna go?
You need to establish what matters to you the most. There are some Subies I would seek out, and for very specific reasons. I also prefer a manual, and as long as I can I will have something I have to manually shift. At 48 years old...I hope that's a very long time indeed.
So, "what matters to you" includes how much you want to have to spend to upgrade, how many choices do you want to have available to you when you upgrade, what mileage do you want, and how much space, and so on. With my Amigo, I wanted a stick and the V-6, which are working well. If and when the engine dies, I will upgrade to a Lexus V-8.
There are absolutely trustworthy Subie models of olden days you could use as a platform. I can't say as I've seen a lot of built-up older RAVs but I have seen enough built-up older 1st and 2nd-gen CRVs to know it can be done. If you wanted body-on-frame, you have choices...but most of them older.
If you want new, and with a warranty, that's where it gets funky. A very good friend of mine who works for a new Subie dealership is very interested to see their new off-road trim. No one (NOOOOOO ONNNNNNNNNE) trusts the Subie CVT. Just like what owners seem to know, if you don't mind going slow, it's fine. Anything technical, it grenades. You will again and again see a comment like "if Subie made a 'regular' automatic again, or even a stick, I'd buy one right now." I would also add that I had head gasket problems in one even after that problem had been solved.
If you want new, with a warranty, you really have to decide how much you need. The Ford Maverick, about to be introduced next week, is one lots of people are watching. What will its (supposed) off road equipment include? The rear diff from the Bronco sport overheats, so that's "a thing" that happens. With the (larger) Bronco coming out, they clearly have been listening to what people want, at least a little. Would they allow for a better diff to cater to the few that need it? If you had one of those Honda Elements, you could bolt in a CRV diff in the rear to make yours less likely to fail. Will someone develop a DIY hack for their Bronco Sport as they start to come out of warranty? Time will tell.
How old ya wanna go?
Todd780
OverCamper
2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon vs. 2020 Toyota RAV4 TRD Off-Road
We head into thick mud that'll pull the boots off your feet, steep climbs, and sharp break-overs to see just how far your family crossover can go off-road.
www.caranddriver.com
utherjorge
Observer
2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon vs. 2020 Toyota RAV4 TRD Off-Road
We head into thick mud that'll pull the boots off your feet, steep climbs, and sharp break-overs to see just how far your family crossover can go off-road.
I had forgotten that I had read about that test. I do recall that it did well, but I reviewed that article once more after seeing this.
Of course, the article that showed how well it does did highlight the shortcomings (vs. a body-on-frame rig, of course) it might have, which was my point, sorta. I'm thinking more about how this would hold up if you did a "C&D weekend" regularly, over and over. I don't have an answer...is anyone here using that platform? Or a new CRV? I know we have a bunch of Subies, obviously.
calicamper
Expedition Leader
The bronc sport over heat diff issue was only the low trim basic version lacking the added cooler. The higher trim gets a different setup same setup Ford was wheeling in Moab during final testing.
If your shopping a Cross trek for cheap transportation then the basic bronc sport trims are in the same general playing field except no cvt issues. If your shopping RAv Turd the top trim Bronc sports with more advanced running gear is a comparison point and again better capability no cvt. The Outback finally getting better gearing should actually help performance and should help improve cvt reliability, but its still a cvt. The Edge plays in the Outback sizing range. Dont know much about the edge isn’t it a pretty old design at this point?
If your shopping a Cross trek for cheap transportation then the basic bronc sport trims are in the same general playing field except no cvt issues. If your shopping RAv Turd the top trim Bronc sports with more advanced running gear is a comparison point and again better capability no cvt. The Outback finally getting better gearing should actually help performance and should help improve cvt reliability, but its still a cvt. The Edge plays in the Outback sizing range. Dont know much about the edge isn’t it a pretty old design at this point?
s.e.charles
Well-known member
i'm on the east coast and confine my wheeling to the hardware store & post office. i was thinking forester or outback (leaning towards) but like toyota for it's brand (2 tacomas) and honda crv for it's high rating, style, and not being either of the first two.
utherjorge
Observer
I know two different journalists had the issue. I have not dove/dived into the webz fray to see if this is still an issue, or how big an issue it is. I do know Ford's response was pretty weak at the time.
It's my understanding with the Subies/Bronco Sports/Hondas and whatever else is that they are built for the 97% or people (a completely made-up statistic) that don't go offroad. For them, it's fine. For anyone that actually engages their 4x4, so to speak, they have a hard time engaging and so overheat, or at least their systems think they do, so the vehicles go into limp mode. They all handle this differently.
All three of your choices above would be fine for sure. Again, due to what I know about Subies, I'd say hard no on them, but it's super annoying to pay the Honda or Toyota premium.
All that said, if you have the interest or ability to buy something older, and get it cheap, your options greatly open up, and then you don't have to feel bad about customization. You just won't have a warranty.
Dougnuts
Well-known member
The gas RAV4 has an 8 speed auto. The hybrid, which I have, is eCVT. The hybrid is faster and smoother than the clunky 8 speed gas models. Both are quite capable with good tires. A few of the gas models have a torque vectoring rear diff.
The Edge platform has been refreshed a time or two. It’s generally considered a really good driving car.
I have a 2015 3.6R with 124k on it and it’s still pretty solid. I’ve heard of guys getting a CVT overheat light when pushing them off road for extended climbs, but not for differentials. Mine has the HTCVT, like in the WRX. I’m not trying to sway anyone’s opinion, but ours has been solid and has held up well. Now that I have the RAV4 and an F150 on 34s, the Outback is getting some handling and braking upgrades, which may run contrary to most in this thread. ?
calicamper
Expedition Leader
The Subaru cvt front vs rear power feed / clutch starts to bind up when it gets over worked. Think really brutal snow storm aka big ******** ski day on the mountain. Nothing like first getting stuck in the parking lot because cvt won’t back the car out of the nose in outer parking spot due to one tire dropped off the pavement (lower gearing!!! Finally put in the special trim OB) should fix that issue.
Then an hour down the mountain in tough totally snow covered interstate only to wrestle the car around an exit because it doesn’t want to turn aka hot bound up center diff. My manual was light yrs superior to the cvt in capability no doubt about it. However the last yr the 6spd was sold in the ob the throttle response was neutered due to emissions which ment no you could no longer do the hard throttle clutch drop to climb up a boat ramp or say hill in SF, the throttle nanny opted for a strange slow throttle response that would correct right at stall and buck the car then it would give you full power ?♂️.
200,000 miles on my manual Subaru great car.
140,000 on my CVT mehh disappointing other brands offer better ability, better reliability, better quality etc. Super disappointing to see Subaru loose what made their cars great.
If you want a affordable awd car? Go Toyota, VW, Mazda. You’ll at least get better reliability and as good or better capability.
Then an hour down the mountain in tough totally snow covered interstate only to wrestle the car around an exit because it doesn’t want to turn aka hot bound up center diff. My manual was light yrs superior to the cvt in capability no doubt about it. However the last yr the 6spd was sold in the ob the throttle response was neutered due to emissions which ment no you could no longer do the hard throttle clutch drop to climb up a boat ramp or say hill in SF, the throttle nanny opted for a strange slow throttle response that would correct right at stall and buck the car then it would give you full power ?♂️.
200,000 miles on my manual Subaru great car.
140,000 on my CVT mehh disappointing other brands offer better ability, better reliability, better quality etc. Super disappointing to see Subaru loose what made their cars great.
If you want a affordable awd car? Go Toyota, VW, Mazda. You’ll at least get better reliability and as good or better capability.