Subaru shopping...with questions?

[Flagster]

I am helping my brother shop for a used subaru outback/forester.
His budget is under 10,000 which puts him in the 2000-2008 vintage...depending on mileage
I am steering him (right or wrong?) toward the 3.0l v6 cars since they don't seem to have the headgasket issues/timing belt service and from what I have read are more bulletproof than the 2.5l? Am I wrong. Only bad thing is the auto is the only transmission option and he wants a manual transmission.
Any other issues with this vintage subie that I should know about.
Thanks
Matt

 

[maddmaxx]

i would stay away with the h6... A lot harder to work on when something does go wrong. The 2.5 is a great motor besides the head gasket issues. I would look for one that has had them replaced recently (with proof). If not thats a great way to get them to move on the price. I just replaced head gaskets timing belt water pump on my boss wife 08 outback with 100kon it. it was leaking antifreeze. They are great motors as long as they are taking care of

 

[BBerry4430]

Agreed about the 2.5 being a good motor. Aside from the head gasket issue they last for a long time. The H6 is a good motor too, though. The only one I would avoid is the turbo models. Tons of fun, but when bought used you have no idea how well they were maintained or driven. I say this having owned a 97 Outback that is still truckin at 175k, a 2005 Outback XT which I traded in, and currently a 2010 Forester. Great cars, all of them. Overall I think the Outbacks are better built.

 

[cyclist]

They supposedly fixed the head gasket issue in 2004. We recently bought a 2006 forester, a bit more than 10K but with super low miles. My advice based on our shopping:
Sit in and drive both, they have similar interior volumes but much different shapes. The forester feels alot more airy with the high ceiling and low beltline, the outback feels much less so but will handle a bit better.
The 2005-09 outback is much nicer than than 2000-2004, the 2003-2005 foresters are the same car as the 2006-08 minus the interior trim and nose. The pre 03 foresters are noticeably smaller.
Buy the manual, the 4spd auto sucks, and makes an already slow car painful. Get used to going slow, compared to my old (v6, 5spd) passat I feel like this thing is slower than my road bike.
I hope you are under about 6'1" as the seat's don't go back far enough, I need to figure out how to move mine back, but I don't drive the car a ton so I haven't yet.
If your shopping on price, a car with 105K and a timing belt job is a better investment than one with 90k that will need that work soon.

 

[vicali]

Lot's of folks say the Outbacks are the luxurious models and the Forester are the utilitarian versions.

Our 2008 Forester does everything well; rally, groceries, kids, dogs, camping, canoeing, daily driver, tripper..
It is the definition of Utility.

The 3.0 h6 is a nice big engine, but the EJ25 is one of the most widely used in the Subaru lineup; impreza, forester, and legacy from 2000 or so on all have this engine -as well as plane builders, kit cars, and a ton of vw converts- it's a workhorse. Yes, there is the headgasket issue with the NA versions, allegedly it was fixed with the 2003 upgrades but more likely it will still happen all the way up to the newest models. It's just a subaru thing- put all the tow truck money you save every winter into a jar and it's more than paid for a headgasket.

Outbacks have more backseat room than the Forester, but I prefer the upright seating and bigger windows of the Forester to the laid back 'car' feeling of the legacy. The Forester feels like a proper wagon while the legacy is easy to think of as a car with a lot of room out back.

As far as 5spd/auto goes it's all about preference, the 5spd is nice but less common than the auto. the 4EAT is a decent, strong automatic transmission.. people don't like the way it works but it's been made to maximize economy and not performance. Ours lives in 3rd most of the time. One thing to note; on 5spd models the center diff runs 50:50 power distribution, autos are 90:10 and shift power back as needed.


Spend some time on subaruforester.org, we're a friendly bunch although you will probably end up wanting an XT.

 

[bpgt]

Cyclist sums it up pretty well.
I'm an owner of a 2005 Legacy GT Wagon (5spd) since new. I currently have 175,000+ miles on the stock motor with an upgraded turbo, injectors, performance tune, etc. since 12,000 miles and have never encountered an issue with my headgasket or with the drivetrain. Like many fears with certain vehicles, the internet community seems to permeate half-truths about certain subjects with many of the posters only offering anecdotal references without any first-hand experience. Even the cases based on first-hand experiences don't express the thousands of owners that don't have issues that are not on the boards (of course, that point can be turned around as well).
Regardless, I would just ask for any maintenance records on the vehicle with the timing belt at around 90k-100k miles being the highlight. Upon purchase, just baseline the fluids for better piece of mind and begin your records from that point. My recommendation would go towards the 2005+ Outback. Its essentially the same vehicle as my GT wagon but on a slightly different suspension (slightly lifted and different control arms from what I understand). It's also a longer platform that offers a bit more room in the rear passenger and trunk area than the Forester which is based off of the WRX platform. I would also recommend a turbo-manual combination regardless of vehicle choice. Despite the higher cost of operation due to fuel (premium required) and maintenance in the long-run, the power is always welcome. Good luck with your choice; either way you'll be satisfied for a long time.

 

[E.J.]

One thing to note; on 5spd models the center diff runs 50:50 power distribution, autos are 90:10 and shift power back as needed.

I think you are oversimplifying the 4EAT just a little.
http://www.sonic.net/~roo/SubaruAWD.pdf
No pissing contest intended.

 

[altitudewrench]

I would disagree with the statement regarding the H6. The H6 from the 2001-2004 Outback is one of the most bulletproof engines offered by Subaru. This heritage carried over to the 2005-2009 models as well. These engines do not suffer from the head gasket issues and are equipped withe a timing chain instead of a belt. These engines are 250000 motors and then some. I own a 2003 LLBean with the H6 and I have dealt with my share of issues but the engine has not been one of them. With this said, many improvements have been made to the later versions of the 2.5 to address the head gaskets. Having the extra power of the H6 is nice as well.

 

[Rosco862003]

I guess I'll chime in here. Although I own an Impreza 2.5i wagon I feel I can comment about other aspects of the vehicle that are often overlooked or looked at as a general consensus (ie: 5 speed vs auto). As far as the engine goes, I bought the vehicle with 62k miles on the clock and the owner was nice enough to throw in a free oil leak. I smelled oil but did not see any drops when I bought the vehicle, and he showed me a receipt from the day before stating that the car received an oil change. No big deal sometimes theres a little spillage when doing an oil change and I thought to myself that it will go away. Long story short, it didn't and it ended up being a cracked oil pressure switch. This cost me a new head and around $1800 at the end of the day for what I thought was a little burnoff. It seems as though these switches only require the slightest amount of torque to get them snug and since the head is aluminum, and the switch is iron, you need to be very careful about how you approach this. I got that fixed and was a happy camper, and then my CEL came on informing me that I had a clogged cat. Well I have 76k miles on the clock now and federal law mandates that the manufacturer replace the cat is it is malfunctioning under 80k miles. I lucked out there and just had that done last week.

As far as the Transmission choice goes, I would highly recommend driving both to get a feel for what you like, and will tell you that the throttle by wire is difficult to get used to on the cars in my opinion. My prior vehicle was a Miata whose transmission was almost telepathic. The accuracy and immediacy with which the car shifted was one of my favorite aspects of that car. When I went to the Subaru however, it seems as though there's a delay from the point in which you step on the throttle, and when the engine revs, and it never seems consistent. I find myself over revving, under revving, and when I first got the car stalling out. There have been similar reports about this that you can look up on more Subaru specific forums. Once up to speed though everything seems to work out. Although the car is rated for 22/ 29 mpg, I find myself getting in the upper 20's in the city and have achieved as high as 35 on the highway, flat stretch of highway to beach. I've tested the all wheel drive on this car on Carova Beach, NC which has some pretty powdery sand, in the snow, mud, and gravel, and it has far exceeded my expectations. Ground clearance was an issue on the beach but as long as I kept momentum I was good, which shouldn't be as big an issue with either vehicle you describe. As with the Outback and Forester you have to keep in mind that these cars were not built military specs, but will be more than enough should you be traveling down a dirt road and find a mud puddle a bit larger than you expected, or a snow drift that needs a bit of convincing.

Despite what looks like a horror story at the beginning I really do enjoy having my car and am happy with my decision overall. My budget was also $10k and from what I found 05-09 Outbacks are going to have pretty high miles for that price. The older generation might be a consideration, but at the end of the day you have to drive the vehicle and see what works best. Gas mileage was pretty high on my list which is why I stayed away from the turbo or 6 cylinder varieties. One gripe I have, or I should say my backseat occupants, have about my car is the lack of legroom. I know the Forester rides on the same platform as the Impreza, but it may be a different story given the bigger body. Just something to consider since the Outback is a bit longer. I hope I helped out.