Such limited 4x4 van choices with decent gas mileage (in the US)

S

SpaceJamHikes

New member
I've been living full time in a Subaru Outback with about 75 cubic feet of 'livable space' and, after 18 months, I am ready to upsize. I know a larger home will not get as good of gas mileage but there seems to be a gap in the market. I want to find something that is 4x4 and gets least 20mpg, but that pretty much limits things immediately to Sprinters and the small Japanese Imports (Delica L400 is my front runner)
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1) The LWB Delica has 185 cubic feet and the ceiling height is ~50 inches (give or take with Crystal Lite roof) and I am 6'2" and want to sit comfortably inside. This van would allow me to sit up inside and cook inside (the two major reasons to upsize) but I'd still be a little cramped. It's wheelbase is 118" so only slightly longer than my Outback. Then there is also the risk that comes along with buying a 25+ year old rig with parts not being readily available.
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2) The 128" wheelbase Sprinter has 282 cubic feet (short roof) and would be perfect! But the 4x4 only comes in the 144" and 170" wheelbases which is just getting too massive. I like the nimbleness and maneuverability of my Outback. Again, I'm willing to sacrifice some of that for more living space.
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3) The LWB Transit Connect AWD has 200 cubic feet and would need some suspension upgrades to get it to my level of off-road-readiness, and also only has a ceiling height of 49".
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4) The regular Transit 250 AWD is available in a 130" wheelbase with short roof (57" ceiling) that has 246 cubic feet, but is BARELY there with the mileage requirement at 18city / 21 hwy.
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I see a lot of campervans in Europe that seem too hit the sweet spot I am looking for: ~250 cubic feet interior / 4x4 or AWD / 25+ mpg... why can't we get that in the US?!? Few other tidbits in my rant. I'm not interested in trucks, terrible mileage and much of the wheelbase/footprint is not living space (large hood and cab). I need AWD or 4x4 since I go on the beach, up halfway gnarly forest service roads, and drive frequently in snow. I've had to cook meals outside from my tailgate and do a reverse somersault to get into bed from the driver seat so being able to sit upright will be enough for me - a few vanlife friends say that I just NEED the high top so I can stan inside, but I disagree. Anyway - thanks for reading. Happy to answer any questions and would love any suggestions you may have for what could be my dream canvas for vanlifing!
 
rruff

rruff

Explorer
First, take an honest assessment of all your living expenses. Be sure to include maintenance and depreciation on everything you own. Now factor the cost of 12 mpg vs 16 mpg (realistically that's a good as it will get). What % of the total is that? Is it worth making lots of compromises in your vehicle to save that much... or if you really can't afford it, drive less, driver slower, etc? Note... by driving less, you are saving a lot more than just the price of gas.

I don't know your specific circumstances, but none of the vans sold in the US are good off road (relative to a truck), even the AWD Transit. You can lift them a little, relocate the shock bracket that hangs down in the back, and they will do ok for something that is missing low range. Maybe that's totally fine? If so, I'd consider whether you really need AWD. For me, if it has poor ground clearance and I don't wish to beat it to death, that already limits where I can go... ground clearance being more important than AWD, IMO. I'd check into a NA Transit with the lowest gears you can get and a locker, add a 2" lift and the shock mod, bigger tires. The Ram van has some pros and cons with FWD, and the rear axle will need modding for clearance, but those can work too.

Or just get a pickup...
 
86scotty

86scotty

Cynic
Henry Ford started this in America with his line "You can have any color you want as long as it's black".

The modern translation of that is "You can have any vehicle you want (in America) as long as it's a pick up."

Pick-ups get the love here. It's all America really does well. Oh, that and useless Crossover SUV things. I'm with you and wish it weren't so, but it is.
 
C

calicamper

Expedition Leader
Former Outback guy here. I drive a heavy tow pack Ford Expedition today. Way WAY more capable than the Outback in every way. I get a solid 2mpg less all around average than my Outback did. But I got 400hp, true 4x4, 9200lb max tow and 1700lbs payload. Way better build quality also.

My buddies with their big awl dr Transit vans when driven conservative get about 1mpg less averaging than I get in the Expedition. As for off pavement? Weight is the bigger enemy to the van (they sink in soft surfaces when packed full of crap) stock the van easily can go where the loaded poorly powered/geared Outback could go.
 
rruff

rruff

Explorer
Speaking of soft surfaces... I've never had an issue getting through sand with an overloaded RWD open diff. Just air down... which means get a good pump or two. Mud, I don't know about... I try to avoid that.

It isn't that we couldn't build a van that is particularly offroady, and with a small diesel... it's just that both of these things have a limited market. Vans are made for urban delivery... mostly, and little wheels and low ground clearance drives better. And gas is still cheap enough, and horsepower valued enough, and the emission regs for diesels onerous enough, that powerful gas engines are the norm... or powerful diesels in larger trucks.

Granted, most pickups are used like cars, even the big 4wds. Their suitability for this is somewhere between poor and atrocious, but I'll chock that up to mass insanity; it's going around... But if you are looking for something to use as a basis for a vehicle to live in and explore/camp offroad, they are hard to beat. Ubiquitous and rugged, fairly reliable, available in every trim imaginable, with a host of options, including engines. Tons of aftermarket support also.

Just did a search and noticed a lot of new very basic NA 3.3L regular cab 6.5' bed F150s sitting on lots with ~$30k price tags. 8' beds are only a tad more. Best mpg you'll find in a fullsize I'd wager. Nimble, simple. If it doesn't have it, add low gears and a locker... maybe a small lift and bigger tires... and you'll be in good shape. 4wds aren't as cheap... looks like about +$8k on the lot.
 
J

JAGI410

New member
I have an Outback, AND a LWD L400 Delica, and I think the Delica still deserves to be your front runner. Keep in mind I don't live in either one, but I've camped in them both enough to offer insight. And I've done this same analysis a bunch of times with the same and similar vans.

Prior to the Delica, I had a lifted 4x4 Ford Van (not quite as nice as that dreamy green one above) and mpg on a good day will be 12mpg. They suck to park, the highway ride sucks, they draw a ton of attention, and of course, the gas mileage is terrible. Outside of this forum, it's hard to find info on them for maintenance, mods, build outs, etc. But damn they are cool, there's no denying that!

But a L400? Parts are EASY to get. They just aren't QUICK to get. I order most of my stuff from Rising Sun Auto in Vancouver. Between them and Coombs (also in the same area) they have a ton of parts for these things. I just spent $480, including shipping from Canada for a new OEM radiator, OEM radiator hoses, and a block heater. That's not far off from what I spent to do the same work on my previous Subaru using non-OEM parts. Most everything is reasonable, but there are a few things (like the injection pump) that can get expensive.

I get ~22mpg fairly consistently, although it drops a tad when I have the roof rack and awning on. It can sleep 3 people and a dog without needing to do remove anything, and still has room for storage. The highway ride is great, it's easy to park and use around town, and while it gets some attention, it's not "LOOK AT ME" attention that the big vans get. For being 30 years old, there are luxuries that the newer vans don't have, like auto windows, heated wipers and mirrors, factory curtains, etc. But also since they are 30 years old, there's a TON of info online. US forums, Canada forums, UK forums, AUS forums. Videos, write ups, pics. Anything you need for maintenance or mods is out there and easy to find.

The market for these things is a bit weird though. LWBs are harder to find in the US. You can expect to pay between $10-30k, and there isn't a whole lot of sense in the price range. Getting a "dialed" one from Nomadic Vans in Idaho might be worth the higher range. Taking the chance on importing one yourself may be $10k, but expect to dump time and money to make it reliable/safe/home. The hard part is that rust kills these things before anything else, and that's really hard to inspect without someone you trust, or looking at it yourself. Hence where the higher end of the budget comes into play. But even then, you could have a really nice Delica for the price of a beat to crap used Transit. If you could even find a used AWD Transit in that range yet.
 
Highlander

Highlander

The Strong, Silent Type
This is from the WV brochure
Payload 3300Lb
Towing 5511Lb
Not bad for such a small van.

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@rruff

You are not wrong, but I think the people who are interested in vans, even the AWD ones, are less inclined to crawl the rocks.
The most of them, especially the Sprinter can handle the most of the dirt roads quite well. Yes, there are people who think that a 4x4 badge means they have a capable offroader.

Other advantage of the van is it's versatility.
You can pull over anywhere (within reason) and sleep if you are traveling long distance.
They usually have an visibility and bring additional layer to the experience.
 
C

calicamper

Expedition Leader
As for grey market vehicles especially today with insurance companies getting super hyper picky due to huge losses in the last few yrs.

You won’t find anyone who’s been wrecked out in a non US spec vehicle thats walked away with insurance covering their injuries and losses. A good friend was a victim of this and he won’t touch non us spec vehicles today. Before the accident he had some seriously cool stuff. Hit by a red light runner, and was screwed 20x over by everyone who got involved because he was in a non US spec imported vehicle, one built way way better than the Delica.
 
C

calicamper

Expedition Leader
If you want van space and amazing mileage better than the Subaru? Get a Toyota Sienna. Yank the seats toss a bed and some shelves in it and you have the best combo. Want dirt road and snow capacity similar to the Subaru? Get the awd one and toss some quality 3peak tires on it you’ll still get better mileage than the Subaru 😆
 
R

RVflyfish

Fishing is life. The rest is details.
AWD Siennas are great. My sister had to give hers to her ex in the divorce and I think she still regrets it.

Honda Odysseys are also amazing. You don’t even have to pull the rear seats to camp; they stow in the floor. And if memory serves, they can go from 6 to 4 to 2 cylinders firing depending on demand, which gives them crazy good mileage. My buddy (who has enough money to throw at any rig) says when his current Odyssey dies, he’ll buy another one. I poked around on the interwebs and there’s talk of people having converted them to AWD using Pilot or Ridgeline components.

Speaking of, what about a Pilot AWD?
 
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