Supertramp Flagship LT pop-up slide-in pickup camper

jaywo

Active member
The solar system is vastly undersized, for 2 people working on PCs with a starlink running + fridge, fan, lights…
If you are reading this Supertramp there is no way I would consider it without at least double the solar output.
400Ah is ok though. It’s a little absurd to offer 400Ah but only 200ish W of effective solar charging.
 

SimplyAnAdventure

Well-known member
The solar system is vastly undersized, for 2 people working on PCs with a starlink running + fridge, fan, lights…
If you are reading this Supertramp there is no way I would consider it without at least double the solar output.
400Ah is ok though. It’s a little absurd to offer 400Ah but only 200ish W of effective solar charging.
As an owner of a ST, and someone who has 400Ah of batteries I more than wholeheartedly agree with your point.

I spoke with the ST team about larger charging before my camper was finalized and in particular larger charging capacity. They said they are aware and it is on their radar but there wasn’t anything they could do, at least on my camper at that point in time.

I will say in their defense ST did not design and build a camper, a camper…. With the intention of there being two people using it as a full time office. They built it as a camper. Give them time to adjust to the change in useage/ market I know they are working on it.

So far using my camper with one of the first factory installed Starlinks and my wife working from it we had more than enough power in the 10 or so days we traveled in it coming home. But we don’t sit stationary for days. I will say I’m more nervous about powering the Air Conditioning in August than I am about the Startlink, but the same things apply. We need more charging for such big battery banks.
 

jaywo

Active member
Anybody here moved from a fully built Van (Sprinter, Transit,…) to a Supertramp? Trying to measure pros and cons between both. I know the theory but would love to hear actual feedback from real world use.
 

SimplyAnAdventure

Well-known member
Anybody here moved from a fully built Van (Sprinter, Transit,…) to a Supertramp? Trying to measure pros and cons between both. I know the theory but would love to hear actual feedback from real world use.
So I apologize in advance for this reply, since I’ve never owned a van but since I enjoy my own reasoning I’m going to tell you anyway.

In about 2018 my wife and I were already into the adventure travel lifestyle and when the Winnebago Revel announced we were obsessed over it. Watched every YouTube video on the subject and simply fell in love with it. It seemed perfect.

As they were almost affordable way back than we set off trying to find one to look at. That proved to be a nearly impossible task at the time but once we found one we both sorta had the wind taken out of our sales.

It was pretty small, not poorly made, but also not 150k plus made either. As we dug deeper into them there were many more short comings that positives.

As you surely already know a Supertramp on a F350 Tremor like mine is going to be almost infinitely more rugged Offroad and have payload to spare. Ground clearance, payload, towing, lockers, 37’s, better reliability (you can argue this one but man are those diesel Sprinters sketchy). What my Truck/camper doesn’t have is an inside pass through.

That’s it’s. The interior of my ST feels bigger, the truck is larger and more powerful and the overall profile is lower but no matter what I can’t get from the truck cab to the camper.

I don’t know you or your useage but I can tell you we have right about 40-60k less in our F350 Tremor/ ST combo than a well optioned van and much more Offroad and payload capability.

I can’t say one is better, but after looking at a lot of vans this is better for us and our needs. If most of your travels are on roads or dirt rds than a van can be fine but it will absolutely never ever be able to go where an Offroad truck can go. They’re bigger, less powerful and have limited clearance. Two different tools for two different jobs. You just have to know what job you want it to do.

Just realized the post above was by you as well. If you’re looking for full time living and working out if it a long wheel base van might be a lot better. You can pull into a parking lot and work the day away more room for solar and batteries in a long Van and no reason to get in and out if your stealthing. Obviously the ST roof will be popped if you’re in it working all day which won’t be stealthy at all.

If i were you, if you’re serious about a ST and or a Van I’d fly out and visit both in person spend some time sitting in them. The ST folks are amazing and we really enjoyed our time out there. I can only assume a custom van builder would be the same. Let them sell you on what’s better.
 
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jaywo

Active member
So I apologize in advance for this reply, since I’ve never owned a van but since I enjoy my own reasoning I’m going to tell you anyway.

In about 2018 my wife and I were already into the adventure travel lifestyle and when the Winnebago Revel announced we were obsessed over it. Watched every YouTube video on the subject and simply fell in love with it. It seemed perfect.

As they were almost affordable way back than we set off trying to find one to look at. That proved to be a nearly impossible task at the time but once we found one we both sorta had the wind taken out of our sales.

It was pretty small, not poorly made, but also not 150k plus made either. As we dug deeper into them there were many more short comings that positives.

As you surely already know a Supertramp on a F350 Tremor like mine is going to be almost infinitely more rugged Offroad and have payload to spare. Ground clearance, payload, towing, lockers, 37’s, better reliability (you can argue this one but man are those diesel Sprinters sketchy). What my Truck/camper doesn’t have is an inside pass through.

That’s it’s. The interior of my ST feels bigger, the truck is larger and more powerful and the overall profile is lower but no matter what I can’t get from the truck cab to the camper.

I don’t know you or your useage but I can tell you we have right about 40-60k less in our F350 Tremor/ ST combo than a well optioned van and much more Offroad and payload capability.

I can’t say one is better, but after looking at a lot of vans this is better for us and our needs. If most of your travels are on roads or dirt rds than a van can be fine but it will absolutely never ever be able to go where an Offroad truck can go. They’re bigger, less powerful and have limited clearance. Two different tools for two different jobs. You just have to know what job you want it to do.

Just realized the post above was by you as well. If you’re looking for full time living and working out if it a long wheel base van might be a lot better. You can pull into a parking lot and work the day away more room for solar and batteries in a long Van and no reason to get in and out if your stealthing. Obviously the ST roof will be popped if you’re in it working all day which won’t be stealthy at all.

If i were you, if you’re serious about a ST and or a Van I’d fly out and visit both in person spend some time sitting in them. The ST folks are amazing and we really enjoyed our time out there. I can only assume a custom van builder would be the same. Let them sell you on what’s better.

Not full time living but taking 1-4 weeks trips a few times a year working from it on top of weekends/vacation.

For me the off road part is not as huge of an argument as it may seem: we have a fully loaded Bronco on 35s and we camp everywhere offroad in Utah and Colorado but the truth is that a lot of times I have been “off roading” to get to my spot only to find out a lifted sprinter made it as well.
I will say that the times I could guarantee a lifted sprinter could not make it, there is no way I would have tried that either on a F350 with supertramp. So my experience in Utah and Colorado is that Van versus F350 off road, despite one technically much more capable doesn’t make a big practical difference for where I camp, and let me tell you I know all of the secret spots in those states.

The main issue for me with the supertramp is storage. We have paragliding gear, climbing gear, packrafts, backpacking gear and more. Where do we put all that in the supertramp? With a van, it would easily go in the enormous under bed storage.
Also van has tons of upper cabinets but Supertramp has 0.

My second concern is power, well unless Supertramp can accept to put 800w solar up there that’s a deal breaker.

The main advantage for me that I see in the Supertramp, is not having rattles from all your kitchen behind you when driving, more suspension comfort offroad on washboards and rocks, and more evolutive if we have kids soon thanks to the crew cab. One could argue that you can custom build a van with 2 rear seat belted seats but to me it looks like a van is not as nice for 4 people.

That’s why I am looking at real world experience get feedback on that and also maybe get insights that I don’t already know.
 

Chadx

♫ Off road, again. Just can't wait to get...
@jaywo
We went through a similar decision process as @SimplyAnAdventure and sounds like you are now starting down the same process. You already elaborated on some of your concerns/criteria and those are fairly different than ours, so some of my below points will not apply to you. I'll still post them for future readers of the thread. Will also point out that a thread dedicated to a certain unit, like this, will obviously have some bias. Maybe not intentional, but just by the nature of the participants deciding that this is the rig for them or already owning. It's a good conversation to have, though, as their are likely others thinking through the same decision.

We'd had two different slide-in, pop-up pickup campers before we got the van bug. We hadn't even considered a van until we started considering some hardwall campers (AT Overland Aterra XL, OEV Hudson Bay hardwall, etc.). That naturally lead into considering a van because they have some of the disadvantages (overhead height) as hardwall campers. An advantage of van over camper was the inside storage you mentioned. We liked the idea of putting MTB/eMTB inside so less dust/weather from hauling outside and more secure. The Winnebago Revel was the first to spark out interest. Went and looked at one at local dealer right up the road. Really like it, but the built in bathroom took up a lot of room. Problem solved when Storyteller van was rolled out. Researched a lot. Finally drove to Salt Lake for a van convention to see a Storyteller in person. Was even more jazzed about it after seeing in person. Scheduled a rental of one so we could evaluate in the field. At that point, I knew the reliability issues with Sprinters. Storyteller then announced they would also build on a Ford Transit van. Much more reliable. Serviceable at any Ford dealership vs the Sprinter serviceability only at commercial shops. However, Transit was even less offroad capable. True that you can get rigs more places than you can imagine driving slow and taking good lines, but it takes waaaaaay longer. Vans also can't fit large enough tires for better rollover performance, escpecially when aired down. Everyone drives different terrain, but for us, we drive terrain with our pickup/slide-in campers where we have a wheel off the ground frequently. My wife often gets out and walks rather than riding through some of the terrain. More than just average forest service roads.

So before the trip date came for the Storyteller rental, reality set in. We'd been so caught up in the excitement that we'd drifted away from our priority list. Everyone should have a weighted priority spreadsheet when considering such a complicated decision. We list out the list of everything that is a need or want ordered by priority. And some of those will be weighted heavier than others. Then compare each rig to that spreadsheet.

High on our list were reliability (subcategories of vehicle reliability and serviceability) and drivability on the trails and terrain we frequent (subcategories of overall height/width, ground clearance, four wheel drive performance). Other categories, from memory, were storage, towing and hitch capability (we frequently tow a 3,000lb boat and 3,000lbs-when-loaded enclosed trailer, and receive hitch for dirtbikes and MTBs), interior layout, potential battery capacity, need or ease of lifting top, etc.

In the end, the vans (and the hardsided campers) didn't meet our highest priority which was fitting down branch-infested trails. We already scrape branches on the sides and top of our pop-up campers so adding 2 or 3 more feet in driving height really isn't an option. Another aspect is narrow trails with tree trunks or rock walls immediately on the side. Often these trails are rutted/weathered and so if a tires on on side drop down into a rut, the entire rig leans the upper portions of the camper to, and behond, the vertical trailside edge. That can lean into trees/rock walls. Even with a popup, we have contacted when leaned and there have been many times that we would have had our roofline been any taller.
Related to terrain, we started watching the terrain we drive on an average weekend with the eye towards "would a van allow us to make this?" Everything from overhead branches, ground clearance, rough terrain, etc. and we quickly realized a van would have us turn back from a route, that we did with a pickup based camper, about every other trip.

Reliability and serviceability is also high on our list. Sprinters (in particular, Sprinter emissions/sensors) have poor track record. Not ideal for a rig we take 60+ miles into the middle of nowhere. Gas van engines are an options but unfortunately, the gas optioned vans have even less clearance and less capable offroad ability, which is also high on our list. Add in the long wait time for Sprinter servicing and that they can only be serviced at Mercedes commercial shops is another strike. The gas vans can be serviced at most any dealership of that brand.
Robustness is another aspect. Sure a van can be abused and make it through some rough terrain, but for 100,000miles? 200,000miles? A pickup is a more robust starting point for the terrain we drive.

I already mentioned that we tow or use a receiver racks for dirtbikes and MTB. Sprinters are rated to tow 5,000lbs in van form. I don't recall advertised may payload and how our potential tongue weight would figure in because I don't know that I ever got that far before realizing a van wouldn't work for us. But, I think some of the van conversion places claim that stock sprinter van tow rating, but I have my doubts after them adding in sooooo much weight for camper contents. Many vans I've seen have the rear suspension already sacked out and touching, or nearly touching, the bump stops. Not ideal for adding tongue weight when towing, adding more payload/cargo, or offroading and harshly banging off bump stops.

Our list of considerations was much longer than that, but for us, those were the important enough points that if a potential rig didn't meet those criteria, it could not be considered, so we scratched camper vans off our list.

Again, I understand our criteria are much different than yours, but just throwing those out there should they align with others doing the same evaluation.
 

SimplyAnAdventure

Well-known member
Not full time living but taking 1-4 weeks trips a few times a year working from it on top of weekends/vacation.

For me the off road part is not as huge of an argument as it may seem: we have a fully loaded Bronco on 35s and we camp everywhere offroad in Utah and Colorado but the truth is that a lot of times I have been “off roading” to get to my spot only to find out a lifted sprinter made it as well.
I will say that the times I could guarantee a lifted sprinter could not make it, there is no way I would have tried that either on a F350 with supertramp. So my experience in Utah and Colorado is that Van versus F350 off road, despite one technically much more capable doesn’t make a big practical difference for where I camp, and let me tell you I know all of the secret spots in those states.

The main issue for me with the supertramp is storage. We have paragliding gear, climbing gear, packrafts, backpacking gear and more. Where do we put all that in the supertramp? With a van, it would easily go in the enormous under bed storage.
Also van has tons of upper cabinets but Supertramp has 0.

My second concern is power, well unless Supertramp can accept to put 800w solar up there that’s a deal breaker.

The main advantage for me that I see in the Supertramp, is not having rattles from all your kitchen behind you when driving, more suspension comfort offroad on washboards and rocks, and more evolutive if we have kids soon thanks to the crew cab. One could argue that you can custom build a van with 2 rear seat belted seats but to me it looks like a van is not as nice for 4 people.

That’s why I am looking at real world experience get feedback on that and also maybe get insights that I don’t already know.
Interesting, honestly with all that gear and hobbies it sounds like you need a Schoolie or a full expedition vehicle. You are correct, there is absolutely ZERO chance that's all going to fit into a Supertramp. 800W on the roof might be a pipe dream too, something like a Schoolie or a full expedition vehicle would probably suit you significantly better.

I'd say anyone who knows "all of the secret spots" in 121 Million acres would definitely be held back with a Supertramp. #Vanlife it brother!

Hopefully you understand i'm being cheeky and pulling your leg, but really it sounds like a ST is far too small for your needs, let alone with future kiddos in tow!

Good luck

~SAA

bus.jpg
Something like this maybe?
 
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SimplyAnAdventure

Well-known member

This is a pretty decent video comparing Vans and Campers. This is from a full-timing point of view but if someone is considering a month or more that might as well be full time. Tbf he mostly rehashes a lot of the points we have discussed.
 

jaywo

Active member
Interesting, honestly with all that gear and hobbies it sounds like you need a Schoolie or a full expedition vehicle. You are correct, there is absolutely ZERO chance that's all going to fit into a Supertramp. 800W on the roof might be a pipe dream too, something like a Schoolie or a full expedition vehicle would probably suit you significantly better.

I'd say anyone who knows "all of the secret spots" in 121 Million acres would definitely be held back with a Supertramp. #Vanlife it brother!

Hopefully you understand i'm being cheeky and pulling your leg, but really it sounds like a ST is far too small for your needs, let alone with future kiddos in tow!

Good luck

~SAA

View attachment 811402
Something like this maybe?

Believe it or not but our current weekend rig is a Bronco with roof top tent. We fit (on top of fridge, batteries, kitchenette and all the usual stuff):

- Paragliding gear (which really is 25L backpacks thanks to today advancement in light paragliders)
- Climbing gear (same as above)
- Backpacking gear (60L backpacks, a bit bigger)
- Packraft equipment is bigger and is a stretch. We are able to fit it, but not with all the above so it's a choice we make depending on the mission.

It goes without saying that the trunk is full top to bottom, as well as the entire rear seat space. I miss not having the bikes though. Also in Winter we have ice climbing and skiing but for those it's day trips only.

When you have a rig built for weekend to 1week long, it's very easy to pick the gear you need for the mission. When you want to go 1 month or more, well we would be forced to take everything thus why we need the room.
It kind of makes me sad that you say there is no way we could fit those. That essentially means you don't have more room in the SuperTramp than a SUV trunk? I guess while it's only the 2 of us we could fill up the rear seats which is a lot of room on a super duty truck. We could also put a large yakima box that attaches on the hitch and swings away. But for sure that would not match the enormous cargo under the bed of a van especially if you put the bed up high.

School bus or anything larger than an extended Transit is an absolute no-go. I would rather abandon the project.

Is it not possible to put upper cabinets with the L tracks, like vans have? if they have a flare on the side they could fit on the bed even when closed I think.

The 800W is not a pipe dream. In a recent interview Supertramp said they don't have more space on the roof, but on the Facebook group a guy just done it. I just wished they could do it at the factory.

Damn that's not easy.
 

jaywo

Active member
@jaywo
We went through a similar decision process as @SimplyAnAdventure and sounds like you are now starting down the same process. You already elaborated on some of your concerns/criteria and those are fairly different than ours, so some of my below points will not apply to you. I'll still post them for future readers of the thread. Will also point out that a thread dedicated to a certain unit, like this, will obviously have some bias. Maybe not intentional, but just by the nature of the participants deciding that this is the rig for them or already owning. It's a good conversation to have, though, as their are likely others thinking through the same decision.

We'd had two different slide-in, pop-up pickup campers before we got the van bug. We hadn't even considered a van until we started considering some hardwall campers (AT Overland Aterra XL, OEV Hudson Bay hardwall, etc.). That naturally lead into considering a van because they have some of the disadvantages (overhead height) as hardwall campers. An advantage of van over camper was the inside storage you mentioned. We liked the idea of putting MTB/eMTB inside so less dust/weather from hauling outside and more secure. The Winnebago Revel was the first to spark out interest. Went and looked at one at local dealer right up the road. Really like it, but the built in bathroom took up a lot of room. Problem solved when Storyteller van was rolled out. Researched a lot. Finally drove to Salt Lake for a van convention to see a Storyteller in person. Was even more jazzed about it after seeing in person. Scheduled a rental of one so we could evaluate in the field. At that point, I knew the reliability issues with Sprinters. Storyteller then announced they would also build on a Ford Transit van. Much more reliable. Serviceable at any Ford dealership vs the Sprinter serviceability only at commercial shops. However, Transit was even less offroad capable. True that you can get rigs more places than you can imagine driving slow and taking good lines, but it takes waaaaaay longer. Vans also can't fit large enough tires for better rollover performance, escpecially when aired down. Everyone drives different terrain, but for us, we drive terrain with our pickup/slide-in campers where we have a wheel off the ground frequently. My wife often gets out and walks rather than riding through some of the terrain. More than just average forest service roads.

So before the trip date came for the Storyteller rental, reality set in. We'd been so caught up in the excitement that we'd drifted away from our priority list. Everyone should have a weighted priority spreadsheet when considering such a complicated decision. We list out the list of everything that is a need or want ordered by priority. And some of those will be weighted heavier than others. Then compare each rig to that spreadsheet.

High on our list were reliability (subcategories of vehicle reliability and serviceability) and drivability on the trails and terrain we frequent (subcategories of overall height/width, ground clearance, four wheel drive performance). Other categories, from memory, were storage, towing and hitch capability (we frequently tow a 3,000lb boat and 3,000lbs-when-loaded enclosed trailer, and receive hitch for dirtbikes and MTBs), interior layout, potential battery capacity, need or ease of lifting top, etc.

In the end, the vans (and the hardsided campers) didn't meet our highest priority which was fitting down branch-infested trails. We already scrape branches on the sides and top of our pop-up campers so adding 2 or 3 more feet in driving height really isn't an option. Another aspect is narrow trails with tree trunks or rock walls immediately on the side. Often these trails are rutted/weathered and so if a tires on on side drop down into a rut, the entire rig leans the upper portions of the camper to, and behond, the vertical trailside edge. That can lean into trees/rock walls. Even with a popup, we have contacted when leaned and there have been many times that we would have had our roofline been any taller.
Related to terrain, we started watching the terrain we drive on an average weekend with the eye towards "would a van allow us to make this?" Everything from overhead branches, ground clearance, rough terrain, etc. and we quickly realized a van would have us turn back from a route, that we did with a pickup based camper, about every other trip.

Reliability and serviceability is also high on our list. Sprinters (in particular, Sprinter emissions/sensors) have poor track record. Not ideal for a rig we take 60+ miles into the middle of nowhere. Gas van engines are an options but unfortunately, the gas optioned vans have even less clearance and less capable offroad ability, which is also high on our list. Add in the long wait time for Sprinter servicing and that they can only be serviced at Mercedes commercial shops is another strike. The gas vans can be serviced at most any dealership of that brand.
Robustness is another aspect. Sure a van can be abused and make it through some rough terrain, but for 100,000miles? 200,000miles? A pickup is a more robust starting point for the terrain we drive.

I already mentioned that we tow or use a receiver racks for dirtbikes and MTB. Sprinters are rated to tow 5,000lbs in van form. I don't recall advertised may payload and how our potential tongue weight would figure in because I don't know that I ever got that far before realizing a van wouldn't work for us. But, I think some of the van conversion places claim that stock sprinter van tow rating, but I have my doubts after them adding in sooooo much weight for camper contents. Many vans I've seen have the rear suspension already sacked out and touching, or nearly touching, the bump stops. Not ideal for adding tongue weight when towing, adding more payload/cargo, or offroading and harshly banging off bump stops.

Our list of considerations was much longer than that, but for us, those were the important enough points that if a potential rig didn't meet those criteria, it could not be considered, so we scratched camper vans off our list.

Again, I understand our criteria are much different than yours, but just throwing those out there should they align with others doing the same evaluation.

It's amazing to read your post, since we share a lot of the exact same thoughts.
In fact, I was just looking at the Storyteller Mode LT yesterday, and I was considering renting one next week to try. Just like you I don't want the Sprinter reliability / lack of support and would prefer a Transit. More importantly, I am 6'5 and the Transit high roof is the only van in the US with an interior height high enough for me. That also brings the point that the ST is high enough, but the bed being 78.5in scares me because I am essentially 77.5in tall. I guess the flexibility into the tent material could help stretch an inch or two? In the van, I can't sleep east/west, so on something like a mode LT I would need to build a removable extension to sleep N/S, or buy a van that as a N/S bed (but then it would be an extended length which means less off-road capability).

What you say about off-roading that takes way longer is exactly my point of view as well and why we bought the Bronco. I don't care about extreme rock crawling. But I am amazed that I can go 60mph on horrible washboard/ruts and pass a Van that goes 10mph max.
I guess something like a Silverado 2500 ZR2 HD on 35in tires and DSSV shocks with a ST on it would not allow me to nearly as fast as the Bronco, but would still be much faster than a van.

Reliability: as I said I can't have a sprinter. In my books the Transit and a F150 or F250 are similar in reliability. No difference for me.

I wish you went trough with the Van rental and could compare from an actual experience in the field, not just projections like you and I are actually doing now, since you would have been the only person I know who would have experience both the Storyteller and ST, which are both on my list.

Edit: just watched the video. The most interesting point in the video is he says it's much easier to full time of the truck camper than the van. I would imagine the opposite to be true for the following reasons: van is stealth (when you full time you gotta go through some cities often to do groceries, wash clothes etc.). Also Van has more storage between the under bed and upper cabinet but here is the thing he says he had more storage on the truck (although they removed rear seats...). Interesting nonetheless.
Even more interesting is they went back to a van (Storyteller) after living in a van, and then in Truck camper. Main reason because of the pop top lack of insulation.
All things considered, since we are coming from a Bronco and enjoy getting to camp fast. I think the Truck Camper makes a little more sense. The lack of solar sucks also the 400ah battery when you think the Storyteller has 1000ah standard and can be optioned to 600W solar. But the reality is I can upgrade it despite not being ideal. The remaining issue that we need to solve is storage. How do I make it work with the ST? Would this box fit the rear molle panel of the ST? It's 24in wide. It's 65lbs and assuming 100lbs of gear inside can that Molle panel support this? This could be a great solution.
 
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SimplyAnAdventure

Well-known member
Believe it or not but our current weekend rig is a Bronco with roof top tent. We fit (on top of fridge, batteries, kitchenette and all the usual stuff):

- Paragliding gear (which really is 25L backpacks thanks to today advancement in light paragliders)
- Climbing gear (same as above)
- Backpacking gear (60L backpacks, a bit bigger)
- Packraft equipment is bigger and is a stretch. We are able to fit it, but not with all the above so it's a choice we make depending on the mission.

It goes without saying that the trunk is full top to bottom, as well as the entire rear seat space. I miss not having the bikes though. Also in Winter we have ice climbing and skiing but for those it's day trips only.

When you have a rig built for weekend to 1week long, it's very easy to pick the gear you need for the mission. When you want to go 1 month or more, well we would be forced to take everything thus why we need the room.
It kind of makes me sad that you say there is no way we could fit those. That essentially means you don't have more room in the SuperTramp than a SUV trunk? I guess while it's only the 2 of us we could fill up the rear seats which is a lot of room on a super duty truck. We could also put a large yakima box that attaches on the hitch and swings away. But for sure that would not match the enormous cargo under the bed of a van especially if you put the bed up high.

School bus or anything larger than an extended Transit is an absolute no-go. I would rather abandon the project.

Is it not possible to put upper cabinets with the L tracks, like vans have? if they have a flare on the side they could fit on the bed even when closed I think.

The 800W is not a pipe dream. In a recent interview Supertramp said they don't have more space on the roof, but on the Facebook group a guy just done it. I just wished they could do it at the factory.

Damn that's not easy.
@DTAdventure is the man for added solar, he's probably who you are talking about since I know he added 3 more panels as well as upgraded DC/DC charging on his Supertramp. Perhaps Chris will chime in since I think he's working on his as a fairly long term living solution.

Our styles of travel my be different, I definitely don't have as many hobbies I try to carry at the same time but I have found the ST to be massive in storage capacity. I absolutely guarantee my wife and I could live indefinitely in our ST/ Tremor with room to spare, but again, i'm not carrying around so many hobbies.

I have lived out of a GoFastCamper for close to a month (that was a little rough), as well as an AluCab Khaya for just as long (that was much easier). Heck we did 3 weeks in Newfoundland last summer out of a Rav4 with an Ikamper Mini (that was also a little tight).

In my experience if you can pack enough for a week or two you can basically travel indefinitely. In fact my wife commented on the under bed storage in the ST holding 2 weeks of clothing so as long as we stop to fill the refrigerator we can go as long as the water and food lasts us before refilling, again not carrying around all our hobbies.

The back seat of a Crew Cab Superduty is absolutely massive. When we went out to get the ST installed in Nov we packed only the back seat with camping gear (since the bed was empty and the tailgate was off.) We hotel-ed it for a couple nights until we picked it up but after that camped our way back across the southern US for about 10 days without doing laundry or really adding much.

If I was carrying around as many hobbies as you and had the off-road confidence with a Van you have it just seems more practical for large storage. Your height is definitely an interesting twist on things. As mentioned before I would 100% fly out and test the products first, you may find the ST just too short where it annoys you, or perhaps not? I'm 5-09 and my wife is 5-03 and the bed is ideal but we're sort of hobbits compared to you.

Other option might be for something like a flatbed OEV or the slide in OEV with a "flatbed" solution with the side truck boxes, that gives you massive massive storage outside. The OEV has the option to sleep E/W or N/S with a king extension, as does the 4WH but I'm not sure that's on your radar.

It might be worth looking at something like the Mitts alloy bed @DTAdventure has or the Bowens custom flatbed/ boxes if you need massive storage, and as mentioned the OEV camper with King extension.

Bowen Custom.jpeg
Check out the storage on that Bowen's!
DTA tray.jpg
@DTAdventure and his Mitts Alloy tray.
OEV-Aluma-Tray-14.jpg
OEV's camper tray.
 
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Chadx

♫ Off road, again. Just can't wait to get...
That essentially means you don't have more room in the SuperTramp than a SUV trunk?

Yes. I mean no. I mean kind of. Ha. There is, in fact, more "space" in a pickup camper than in the back of an SUV, but you just use it for something different. On your Bronco, your living space is a small (by comparison) compartment folded shut and unusable unless you stop and open it up. And when open, it's simply a shelter for sleeping, changing, being out of the weather. In most cases, no running water, hot water, fridge, bathroom, or shower in that tent and most don't have heat, and you climb up and down a ladder to get in and out. That trade off gives you cargo carrying capacity inside the SUV. Some of that cargo is the same as what is inside the camper (fridge, water tank, batteries, heater, etc.) but doesn't give you room to put your recreational gear. You could pack that same gear inside a camper, but then remove it each time you want to use that space. It's all about trade offs for what you want to use the available space. And how you "camp". Primary question is, would you spend a lot of time inside the camper or will it only be used as a glorified tent (sleeping) and most of your time lounging, cooking, etc. will be spent outside? Looky there. Another line item for your spreadsheet of weighted 'wants and needs'.

It's amazing to read your post, since we share a lot of the exact same thoughts.
In fact, I was just looking at the Storyteller Mode LT yesterday, and I was considering renting one next week to try. Just like you I don't want the Sprinter reliability / lack of support and would prefer a Transit. More importantly, I am 6'5 and the Transit high roof is the only van in the US with an interior height high enough for me. That also brings the point that the ST is high enough, but the bed being 78.5in scares me because I am essentially 77.5in tall. I guess the flexibility into the tent material could help stretch an inch or two? In the van, I can't sleep east/west, so on something like a mode LT I would need to build a removable extension to sleep N/S, or buy a van that as a N/S bed (but then it would be an extended length which means less off-road capability).
...
All things considered, since we are coming from a Bronco and enjoy getting to camp fast. I think the Truck Camper makes a little more sense. The lack of solar sucks also the 400ah battery when you think the Storyteller has 1000ah standard and can be optioned to 600W solar. But the reality is I can upgrade it despite not being ideal. The remaining issue that we need to solve is storage. How do I make it work with the ST? Would this box fit the rear molle panel of the ST? It's 24in wide. It's 65lbs and assuming 100lbs of gear inside can that Molle panel support this? This could be a great solution.

A lot of taller folks have noted their appreciation for the Transit Van as a platform over the Sprinter, due to the taller roof height (Storyteller Transit is 6'5" compared to Storyteller Sprinter being 6'3". It feels like more than a 2" gain when you are in there, though). That being said, the interior of both felt short to us as we were used to slide-in pickup campers with a popped up interior height of 6'10". When we compared our OEV CAMP-X to an OEV Hudson Bay flatbed, the layout was more spacious but it felt smaller for some reason. Then we realized the Hudson Bay was only 6'5" inside so 5" shorter than the CAMP-X model. The Supertramp Flagship LT is 6' 9" inside.

One thing we noticed when looking into vans was that we did fit EastWest if van builder utilized the flares on both sides (live the Revel and Storyteller), but it was a little odd feeling. We preferred the idea of a NorthSouth sleeping in vans, but that always meant tearing down and setting up the bed twice a day which was a detractor. I'm a sliver over 6' and my wife is 5'10" and so we fit comfortably sleeping EastWest in all our campers. We had the king bed pullout in our last two campers, so we could sleep NorthSouth and ended up never using them because the hassle of pulling it out and putting it away and it encroaching in living space was more work than crawling over each other to get up in the night (we ended up just getting up at the same time so problem solved).

For taller folks, a pull out would be worth it as sleeping with your head and feet smashed up against a softtop is no good, especially in really cold weather. Supertramp diagram shows the interior width of the cabover is 78.5" like you said, but all videos state the mattress is a true queen, which is 60" x 80". So not sure if one is incorrect or the 80" mattress is simply "tucked" into the 78.5" space. Some with a Flagship can perhaps put a tape measure to a cabover to confirm interior width. Either way, both those measurements (78.5" or 80") will be tight for you if you are a back sleeper, though potentially doable if you are a side sleeper.

FYI, there are recommended weight limits on the Supertramp exterior L track to consider when loading them up with boxes/gear for all that gear. Likely there is engineering leeway there, but these are the weights Supertramp is publishing.

Supertramp Molle Panel and L track suggested weight limits:
Rear Molle Panel: 50 lbs
Side Molle Panel: 100 lbs
Exterior Side Wall L Tracks: Each L track has the capacity to carry 33.3lbs (hence why one side molle panel capacity totals 100lbs)
Interior Driver Side L Track: 75 lbs (this is less than the bunk bed capacity, that partially utilizes this L track, because two additional supports are part of the bunk bed and increase bunk be capacity)
Ceiling L Track: 50 lbs (25lbs per L track section)
Kitchenette L Track: 25 lbs

Regarding charging (solar controller and DC/DC charging), you didn't hear it from me (wink wink knudge knudge say no more), but the Supertramp mothership may be looking into an optional package for those with high power consumption needs.

Like @SimplyAnAdventure mentions, the various trays, that replace the standard bed, add a lot of storage volume. Only limitation to all that additional space are the dimensions of the compartments, which may or may not help your storage needs depending on the stowed size of your bulkier recreational equipment. If you do look into trays, there are only a few manufacturers that make a model specifically for slide-in campers (rather than for flatbed campers). SherpTek in Oregon and Bowen customs in Colorado are the main two that come to mind. SherpTek option is a bit different in that they offer a non-weatherproof drop down side gate rather than boxes. Might afford a bit more room is your gear need not be overly protected.

A model for slide-ins will have the tray floor height the same as stock bed height since they utilize wheel well bulges up into the cabinets. A flatbed camper needs a flat surface, so a flatbed tray, by it's nature, must be 5+" taller. Lower tray means lower center of gravity and better offroad handling, more overhead clearance and it avoids a large gap between the roof of the pickup cab and the bottom of the camper cabover. Expect long lead times and big expense for such trays (longer lead time than a Supertramp build).
 

SimplyAnAdventure

Well-known member
Yes. I mean no. I mean kind of. Ha. There is, in fact, more "space" in a pickup camper than in the back of an SUV, but you just use it for something different. On your Bronco, your living space is a small (by comparison) compartment folded shut and unusable unless you stop and open it up. And when open, it's simply a shelter for sleeping, changing, being out of the weather. In most cases, no running water, hot water, fridge, bathroom, or shower in that tent and most don't have heat, and you climb up and down a ladder to get in and out. That trade off gives you cargo carrying capacity inside the SUV. Some of that cargo is the same as what is inside the camper (fridge, water tank, batteries, heater, etc.) but doesn't give you room to put your recreational gear. You could pack that same gear inside a camper, but then remove it each time you want to use that space. It's all about trade offs for what you want to use the available space. And how you "camp". Primary question is, would you spend a lot of time inside the camper or will it only be used as a glorified tent (sleeping) and most of your time lounging, cooking, etc. will be spent outside? Looky there. Another line item for your spreadsheet of weighted 'wants and needs'.



A lot of taller folks have noted their appreciation for the Transit Van as a platform over the Sprinter, due to the taller roof height (Storyteller Transit is 6'5" compared to Storyteller Sprinter being 6'3". It feels like more than a 2" gain when you are in there, though). That being said, the interior of both felt short to us as we were used to slide-in pickup campers with a popped up interior height of 6'10". When we compared our OEV CAMP-X to an OEV Hudson Bay flatbed, the layout was more spacious but it felt smaller for some reason. Then we realized the Hudson Bay was only 6'5" inside so 5" shorter than the CAMP-X model. The Supertramp Flagship LT is 6' 9" inside.

One thing we noticed when looking into vans was that we did fit EastWest if van builder utilized the flares on both sides (live the Revel and Storyteller), but it was a little odd feeling. We preferred the idea of a NorthSouth sleeping in vans, but that always meant tearing down and setting up the bed twice a day which was a detractor. I'm a sliver over 6' and my wife is 5'10" and so we fit comfortably sleeping EastWest in all our campers. We had the king bed pullout in our last two campers, so we could sleep NorthSouth and ended up never using them because the hassle of pulling it out and putting it away and it encroaching in living space was more work than crawling over each other to get up in the night (we ended up just getting up at the same time so problem solved).

For taller folks, a pull out would be worth it as sleeping with your head and feet smashed up against a softtop is no good, especially in really cold weather. Supertramp diagram shows the interior width of the cabover is 78.5" like you said, but all videos state the mattress is a true queen, which is 60" x 80". So not sure if one is incorrect or the 80" mattress is simply "tucked" into the 78.5" space. Some with a Flagship can perhaps put a tape measure to a cabover to confirm interior width. Either way, both those measurements (78.5" or 80") will be tight for you if you are a back sleeper, though potentially doable if you are a side sleeper.

FYI, there are recommended weight limits on the Supertramp exterior L track to consider when loading them up with boxes/gear for all that gear. Likely there is engineering leeway there, but these are the weights Supertramp is publishing.

Supertramp Molle Panel and L track suggested weight limits:
Rear Molle Panel: 50 lbs
Side Molle Panel: 100 lbs
Exterior Side Wall L Tracks: Each L track has the capacity to carry 33.3lbs (hence why one side molle panel capacity totals 100lbs)
Interior Driver Side L Track: 75 lbs (this is less than the bunk bed capacity, that partially utilizes this L track, because two additional supports are part of the bunk bed and increase bunk be capacity)
Ceiling L Track: 50 lbs (25lbs per L track section)
Kitchenette L Track: 25 lbs

Regarding charging (solar controller and DC/DC charging), you didn't hear it from me (wink wink knudge knudge say no more), but the Supertramp mothership may be looking into an optional package for those with high power consumption needs.

Like @SimplyAnAdventure mentions, the various trays, that replace the standard bed, add a lot of storage volume. Only limitation to all that additional space are the dimensions of the compartments, which may or may not help your storage needs depending on the stowed size of your bulkier recreational equipment. If you do look into trays, there are only a few manufacturers that make a model specifically for slide-in campers (rather than for flatbed campers). SherpTek in Oregon and Bowen customs in Colorado are the main two that come to mind. SherpTek option is a bit different in that they offer a non-weatherproof drop down side gate rather than boxes. Might afford a bit more room is your gear need not be overly protected.

A model for slide-ins will have the tray floor height the same as stock bed height since they utilize wheel well bulges up into the cabinets. A flatbed camper needs a flat surface, so a flatbed tray, by its nature, must be 5+" taller. Lower tray means lower center of gravity and better offroad handling, more overhead clearance and it avoids a large gap between the roof of the pickup cab and the bottom of the camper cabover. Expect long lead times and big expense for such trays (longer lead time than a Supertramp build).
Well said as alway @Chadx everthing is a balancing act. I’d say someone that’s 6’5” would probably benefit from a king extension. We added a 3” topper after we bought the camper and it was 80” long. It fit exactly on top of the ST mattress. The soft sided canvas does actually pull in just a touch in the middle where the bungie cord is. I would say it will be very tight for someone 6’5” unless they sleep on their side.

The trays offer huge storage but it’s starting to feel like we’re pounding a square peg into a round hole here…. You can make anything work if you try hard enough. Doesn’t make it the right tool for the job.

If i was 6’5” (don’t I wish) that would probably be 99% if my decision in a camper, standing and sleeping room. The rest I would figure out afterwards but it would make me crazy to bend down all the time inside or to not be able to sleep.

OEV Flatbed camper king extension…. The Alpine on a flatbed is where I would be looking. Huge storage and a king bed.. just my .02 and worth every bit you paid for it.
 
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jaywo

Active member
Thanks for your inputs.

To sum up:

- Solar, they are working on a package and last resort I could have it done separately or myself - problem kinda solved.

- storage. Flat bed is a no go for me. It’s expensive, it adds a dozen of locks that need to be open, small storage box. I would rather throw everything in the rear cab and die in an accident… (or would I? :)). The rear mille limit and kitchen l track limits are super low. Yesterday I was happy I found those as they are collapsible and l track mounted: https://adventurewagon.com/products/mule-bags-soft-overhead-storage-lockers

But at those weight limit it’s useless. No box in the rear molle also. Well let’s say storage is not solve but also not a deal breaker because we can always pack more stuff then transfer them on front seats when camping. Not ideal but doable for those trips where we gonna bring everything.

- standing and bed room. Standing at 6’9 will be no problem. If the bed is really 80in that should suffice (see below).

So yesterday we tried the Storyteller Mode LT for an hour and we will rent it next week. Wish we could do the same from here, but we won’t fly to Denver just to spend an hour in the ST.
We really liked it. I can fit inside without shoes granted my hair brush the ceiling but I fit. The bed east west at 78in is tight because the space in width and in height that is inside the flare is very tight. But because of the layout and the kitchen cabinet is same height as the bed frame, I can build a very easy north side extension slide. It felt amazing to swivel the seat and have the ability to work and sit 4 people with a very comfortable seat, arguably much more than the seats of the LT.
The cargo was fantastic with cabinets throughout and a massive trunk. I would have bought it on the spot (also amazing to not find a pickup truck and fly in Colorado after months of wait etc) if not for those two reasons:

- it was next to a sprinter (and I confirm I can’t fit in one I tried) and the offroad is night and day. The lifted sprinter has 3 times the clearance and much bigger tires. I was really disappointed in the Transit clearance. It might even be a deal breaker at that point.
For all of you that fit in a sprinter I don’t understand why the ST? The modified sprinter looked Massively capable and that explains why I always see one where I go with the Bronco. There is 0 chance I would bring a huge vehicle and camper like the LT somewhere the fully modified sprinter can’t go. A different story with that transit though…
That sprinter is the best of both world and if I was 6ft I would choose this. Here I am crying about being as tall as an electrical pole.

- second reason was price. I need to build out a LT and compare but there is a difference in favor of the Lt.

It’s gonna be a difficult decision. I can’t see myself now giving up so much off road capability with a transit but at same time we loved the interior, cargo room, all in one cabin with windows to look through when working (not on ST), no pop up, 12kwh battery and no propane which is amazing… at that point it’s pretty much all of those nice things versus off road (which again the sprinter would make it perfect).
Forget my early messages, I failed miserably at distinguishing the difference in capabilities between those van chassis.
 
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SimplyAnAdventure

Well-known member
I am pretty bored at work today, as I imagine most folks are so I dug a bit into the story teller vans.

They do look really nice! Certainly not my cup of tea but I can see why people like them. That Beast MODE camper is pretty sick but approaching a quarter million dollars with tax seems a bit much to me. As they become more common i'm sure i'll bump into someone with one eventually and check it out in person.

Not sure why you wouldn't fly to Denver to spend an hour with ST? We did exactly that, I mean we made it a 4 day weekend and did some other stuff because we were there but I wouldn't want to drop 80K without seeing one in person. In my brief dealings with ST at the Golden factory there was almost a revolving door of people flying in to see the campers, it's worth the trip for sure.

I still love the idea of a tray with more storage and if my lifestyle ever evolves to needing more than we can fit in our truck/ST combo I am definitely going to be adding a Bowen tray. But i'll give this set up a few years first.

I truly can't wait to see what you decide on i'm sure your debates will help others in the future. Good luck with your decision and Merry Christmas!!

~SAA
 

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