Tacoma vs 4Runner TRD Off-Road

[bkg]

Agreed, why? A super duty will easily 2-3x it's own weight. How is 6,400 lbs too much for a 4500 lb truck, relatively speaking?

Apples and oranges... Power... weight... strength... brakes... etc...

I've towed about that weight a 1st gen Tundra a number of times...No way in hell I'd ever do that with a smaller vehicle.

Having towed the same load with 2nd gen Tundras and an F350 solidifies that just because something "can be done" doesn't mean it should.

EDIT: legibility

 

[bkg]

I have ridden in one towing a decent sized trailer. It performed as I would have suspected a v6 to tow. Once again if it meets the standard it meets it.

specs on "decent size trailer."

 

[DaveInDenver]

Apples and oranges... Power... weight... strength... brakes... etc...

I've towed about that weight a 1st gen Tundra a number of times...No way in hell I'd ever do that with a smaller vehicle. Just because it can, doesn't mean it should.

Having towed the same load with 2nd gen Tundras and an F350 solidifies that just because something "can be done" doesn't mean it should.

Not to mention referring to SAE J2807, which allows things like up to 5° permanent angular deformation of the tow vehicle structure and allows wide open throttle to pass a zero to 60 MPH in 30 second type criteria. It's really about determining the maximum a truck can do without regard to it lasting one foot beyond the 12 mile test pull up Davis Dam.

 

[kwill]

I think the rated tow weight is a misleading number on which to focus. If a 6,400 lb trailer has the recommended tongue weight of 10%-15% that's 640-960 lbs. of your weight limit which is what---about 1,000 lbs. optimistically. So the driver, passengers, camping gear in the bed, whatever can weigh 360 lbs. max. Also, the tow capacity weight limit says nothing about frontal area (wind load) does it? I tow a trailer that weighs about 1,500 lbs. loaded and it's easy on flat highway, a bit of a burden in the Rockies and gas mileage is terrible. I can't imagine towing 4,000-6,000 lbs. for any more than a few miles to a local campground.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I think the rated tow weight is a misleading number on which to focus. If a 6,400 lb trailer has the recommended tongue weight of 10%-15% that's 640-960 lbs. of your weight limit which is what---about 1,000 lbs. optimistically. So the driver, passengers, camping gear in the bed, whatever can weigh 360 lbs. max. Also, the tow capacity weight limit says nothing about frontal area (wind load) does it? I tow a trailer that weighs about 1,500 lbs. loaded and it's easy on flat highway, a bit of a burden in the Rockies and gas mileage is terrible. I can't imagine towing 4,000-6,000 lbs. for any more than a few miles to a local campground.

If you're talking about the J2807 spec then yes it does specify a tongue length and frontal area requirement for a given weight. They're based on various sized box cargo trailers. For a 6,400 lbs trailer it I think would fall between 40 and 55 sq-ft frontal area. They assume one 150 lbs driver and one 150 lbs passenger along with some typical options that meet a certain market sales threshold but that's it other than needing to be fitted properly for EPA. So like you say 6,400 lbs at 10% tongue is going to eat up 640 lbs of payload, so that along with 300 lbs of humans is most of the payload in a typical Tacoma.

 

[armedandlethal]

You can always add a topper/camper/cap (whatever you want to call it) to the tacoma and have substantially more dry storage than the 4runner. I'm on my second tacoma now and think they are by far one of the best mid-size 4wd vehicles available. Never understood all the grief the 3.6L powertrain gets. I've never had much of a complaint but I think you just need to keep in mind the vehicles purpose. It is not a sports car and it is not a full size truck so I wouldn't expect it to perform like either of those. The seating position is subjective but not much different than my jeep XJ and I never have felt cramped driving my 3rd gen (6'2") with sunroof. I understand everyone is different and respect that but want to caution you from putting too much weight on internet strangers' opinions. Having said that the 4runner is also a great option.

I've thought about the camper top but it does at least temporarily negate the point of having a bed. But I think either option would work for me.

 

[armedandlethal]

Between the two I would look hard at the new Bronco. Toyotas are great, I love them to death.. but a rig with a removable top that isn't a Jeep is pretty desirable IMO. Ford will likely cost you more in the long run but honestly how long are you actually going to keep it anyway?

While I do like the look of the new Broncos, it isn't something I'd consider (at least not until its been out for a couple of years). And as for how long I plan to keep the vehicle, probably as long I can. I've had the same truck for the past 8 years, which was my dad's prior to that. And the main reason I'm looking at a new vehicle now is that my truck is getting close to being on its last legs.

 

[toylandcruiser]

specs on "decent size trailer."

Travel trailer 5500-6000 pounds

 

[toylandcruiser]

Not to mention referring to SAE J2807, which allows things like up to 5° permanent angular deformation of the tow vehicle structure and allows wide open throttle to pass a zero to 60 MPH in 30 second type criteria. It's really about determining the maximum a truck can do without regard to it lasting one foot beyond the 12 mile test pull up Davis Dam.

Oh so the magic towing dust the domestics were using before switching to a standard was better?

 

[AlwaysExplr87]

I've thought about the camper top but it does at least temporarily negate the point of having a bed. But I think either option would work for me.

With my current Tacoma I never even really considered the bed other than additional dry storage when the topper got added. I honestly would do just fine with a 4runner and don't need the bed often but wanted the additional space over a 4 runner. If I ever need a truck bed I can rent or borrow a trailer.

You can fit a lot of gear in a bed with a topper. I consider myself a minimalist but honestly don't know how jeep and 4runner guys pack up if it's more than 2 people. But I also hate gear and clutter everywhere in the cab so it all goes in the bed.

Good call on the Bronco. While I hate to be the Yota fan boy cliche I just don't trust domestic longevity yet (but hoping they can change my mind). The most important thing you should be asking is "What color?" haha

 

[armedandlethal]

With my current Tacoma I never even really considered the bed other than additional dry storage when the topper got added. I honestly would do just fine with a 4runner and don't need the bed often but wanted the additional space over a 4 runner. If I ever need a truck bed I can rent or borrow a trailer.

You can fit a lot of gear in a bed with a topper. I consider myself a minimalist but honestly don't know how jeep and 4runner guys pack up if it's more than 2 people. But I also hate gear and clutter everywhere in the cab so it all goes in the bed.

Good call on the Bronco. While I hate to be the Yota fan boy cliche I just don't trust domestic longevity yet (but hoping they can change my mind). The most important thing you should be asking is "What color?" haha

I do wish the 4Runner had the color options like the Tacoma, I'd go with cement if they did. Probably go with metallic grey or white, not 100% sure yet.

 

[beef tits]

Just my $0.02 but it seems like the complaints about Tacomas tend to be that it's not a full size. But that's self evident, of course 6,400 lbs is a lot for a nominally "small" truck. The old mini truck/Hilux/Truck came with 5,000 lbs towing ratings and that was almost comically optimistic even with 55 MPH speed limits. I honestly wish people would just accept that a small truck is small on purpose.

Taco isn’t a small truck anymore. It used to be. The new taco feels the same size as my Dad’s 2000 Tundra.

Truth is, small trucks are a thing of the past.

 

[beef tits]

It’s not the engine. 3.5L Taco will handle the weight without issues. It’s the chassis. It’s just not meant to handle that much weight safely/comfortably.

Speaking strictly objectively, it IS meant to... or it wouldn’t be rated that high

 

[Dalko43]

You keep saying that about the 3.5L but the power and torque between it and the 4.0L 1GR-FE are similar. The early production in 2016 had some transmission mapping weirdness that made it seem worse than it really was. In real world towing tests the 2GR-FKS performs better than the 4.0L did.

They don't feel that different to me but that's only based on driving friend's trucks under nothing like controlled experiments. I think automatics suck and that's all I've had the chance to try. But the 6 speed RA60 in the 2nd gen Tacoma is no beauty pageant winner, gearing is wrong (basically the same as a Cadillac road car) and the alloy release bearing extension is just plain stupid from a longevity decision. The RC62 in the 3rd gen is better built and has better gear ratios.

The 3VZ was used in a lot of cars and it was fine as far as that goes, if you don't dink it for the head gasket issues which isn't a truck thing specifically. I think all the V6s aren't great truck engines, they have high torque peaks and feel sluggish off idle. With stock gearing my old 22R-E didn't give up anything to my Tacoma in low range. But even so all Toyotas benefit from proper gearing off road.

The 4.0l v6 delivers peak torque at a slightly lower RPM, especially so in the 2nd gen Tacoma's, as compared to the 3.5l v6 delivering peak torque a few hundred RPM's higher.

Like I said, not a night-and-day difference, but a difference nonetheless. 3rd gen Tacoma's automatic was poorly tuned, but that is only partly to blame. The 3.5l v6 is NOT a truck engine; it was originally designed for cars and then adapted for truck uses. Whereas the 4.0l v6 was purpose-built for trucks, and is still offered as the gasoline alternative for overseas 4x4's (hilux).

I'm not sure what "tests" you referring to where the 3.5l v6 outperformed the 4.0l v6...I've driven both extensively. Even with the 4.30 gearing in the manual, the 3.5l v6 is rather gutless down low (where you really need torque for towing and 4x4 usage). It needs to be rev'd high to get usable torque, which is not preferred for a truck engine. But everyone has their own take on that.

 

[toylandcruiser]

The 4.0l v6 delivers peak torque at a slightly lower RPM, especially so in the 2nd gen Tacoma's, as compared to the 3.5l v6 delivering peak torque a few hundred RPM's higher.

Like I said, not a night-and-day difference, but a difference nonetheless. 3rd gen Tacoma's automatic was poorly tuned, but that is only partly to blame. The 3.5l v6 is NOT a truck engine; it was originally designed for cars and then adapted for truck uses. Whereas the 4.0l v6 was purpose-built for trucks, and is still offered as the gasoline alternative for overseas 4x4's (hilux).

I'm not sure what "tests" you referring to where the 3.5l v6 outperformed the 4.0l v6...I've driven both extensively. Even with the 4.30 gearing in the manual, the 3.5l v6 is rather gutless down low (where you really need torque for towing and 4x4 usage). It needs to be rev'd high to get usable torque, which is not preferred for a truck engine. But everyone has their own take on that.

You know the 4.0 is used in cars as well? People said the same thing about the 3.4 it was the greatest engine.