TCO: why we deciced not to get a Sportsmobile (yet :-)

[Edroid]

The key is balance.

"Live for today" has become the motto of the baby boomers, and we have saddled our offspring for generations to come with $16 TRILLION in debt. Shameful. . .

As we live for today, we are spending our kids livelihood.

Don't ever condemn someone for taking a financial choice that they consider prudent or risky - as long as they are not risky with someone else's dollars!

That balance is a very personal choice.

Having said that, I just took delivery of a brand new Sportsmobile last week, and am thrilled as can be. (Paid in full, no borrowed funds).

Edit:
Sorry, i forget how thin skinned folks are
and the easy mis-interpretation of what is written

Disclaimer:
I am NOT advocating new, used, smb, ford, chev, slide in
trailers or what ever

The point i am trying to get across is
waiting to save a few bucks or keeping the comfort level lower
by having a older or more cost effective rig, may NOT be worth it in the long haul.....

I have a TON of clients that scrimped and saved
only to lose the spouse unexpectedly, or lose their health
so they could not travel or IMHO the worst: Leave it to thier
fully ungratefull kids that spend in a week what mom and dad saved over
40 years......

Story:

I am a Estate Planner by trade
I have to crunch numbers for solutions for my clients on a daily basis

The Math is The Math
... however it must be tempered with numbers that dont work......

example:
$50,000 kitchen remodel because the wife wants one
$20,000 cruise with kids and grandkids

NOT cost effective whatsoever

That said and done, i have a picture of the above wife
sitting in her kitchen with a Sxxt eating grin sipping a cuppa coffee
Given to me by her husband....after she died...
She only got 4 months outta the kitchen
He has NEVER regretted the cost.....

I have another picture of a fat, white, beached whale
in a cruise ship pool with his kids and grandkids and a umbrella drink
The same Sxxt eating grin on his face
...he didnt make it 4 months
The widow thanks me everytime we talk for getting them on the cruise

None of the above had any prior health problems
None of the above where that old.....

Another Case:
I just got around to sorting out my wifes and mine
digital pictures
(4 years worth, first wife, new marriage)

The first trip we took was to Sample Meadows meeting another
group of SMB'ers

First trip = Highest Cost of Ownership
... IMHO, the experiance and memories justify
the entire cost.

Add in two more years of once in a lifetime trips
and IMHO the cost of ownership is Zero

Ask yourself, what is a killer week or 10 days with wife worth
if it is the Last Trip you will make......

I know, i know, i hear this all the time as an Estate Planner
we are young
we are healthy
we cant afford it
we have kids in school
ALL these are a non issue if you cant make the trip

Just my Two Satang

bw

 

[billwilson]

The key is balance.

"Live for today" has become the motto of the baby boomers, and we have saddled our offspring for generations to come with $16 TRILLION in debt. Shameful. . .

As we live for today, we are spending our kids livelihood.

Don't ever condemn someone for taking a financial choice that they consider prudent or risky - as long as they are not risky with someone else's dollars!

That balance is a very personal choice.

Having said that, I just took delivery of a brand new Sportsmobile last week, and am thrilled as can be. (Paid in full, no borrowed funds).

For sure not condeming anyones choice
pointing out that i see alot of folks that can "afford it now"
but cant travel, much less to the places we go.......

ps
congrats on the new smb
now post "before" pics
and soon some "afters" pics with some mud, a few dings and
some Desert Pinstriping !!

 

[Edroid]

congrats on the new smb
now post "before" pics
and soon some "afters" pics with some mud, a few dings and
some Desert Pinstriping !!

Let the great depreciation begin!

 

[billwilson]

why oh why

why oh why do folks lament
- hi price
- poor workmanship

when a couple of alternatives exist
for better value
killer craftsmanship

????

 

[cweight]

If it was a choice between buying a SMB and sitting on the couch (as some seem to imply) then halleluiah, sell your house, hock superfluous relatives, and pay whatever it takes to get out out there and enjoy life! But that is a false dichotomy (for us anyway). We are currently (since it is summer) camping most weekends, and have seen most of the world via backpack, train, car, Land Cruiser, boat, etc. And we plan to continue this - our next big trip will be taking a few years driving from Alaska to Argentina in our Troopy (Land Cruiser). For that trip, we plan to sell our house - the Sportsmobile would be where we live when back in the States for the inevitable home trips. So we thought about buying one a bit early, for extending our camping season, and for a base camp for spending the night when skiing. But for those marginal benefits, the costs just don't work out for us. Note that I am emphasizing _for us_ a lot. That is because of course some folks will find the benefits worth every penny, whereas others will not. The point of my original post was absolutely not to question anyone's choice, but to make information available for those that are considering such a big purchase. Everyone can and should make their own choices, but going in eyes wide open is always wise.

 

[haven]

There's no need to pick on Sportsmobile here. All new vehicles (with the possible exceptions of MINI, Wrangler and BMW) will depreciate to less than half their original purchase price in 5 years. If you can't afford the loss, look at less expensive alternatives, including used vehicles. N'est ce pas?

 

[billwilson]

There's no need to pick on Sportsmobile here. All new vehicles (with the possible exceptions of MINI, Wrangler and BMW) will depreciate to less than half their original purchase price in 5 years. If you can't afford the loss, look at less expensive alternatives, including used vehicles. N'est ce pas?

Holds true for all autos, but me thinks they lose starting when you leave the lot

 

[cwsqbm]

There's no need to pick on Sportsmobile here. All new vehicles (with the possible exceptions of MINI, Wrangler and BMW) will depreciate to less than half their original purchase price in 5 years. If you can't afford the loss, look at less expensive alternatives, including used vehicles. N'est ce pas?

BMW, Wranglers and MINIs depreciate, just slightly slower than other cars. The only things that don't go down in value much are desirable vehicles that halted production before demand was satisfied, like Land Rover Defender 110.

 

[superjunkman]

We took another pass at getting a Sportsmobile. This time is was more serious than ever. But when I ran the numbers, we just could not justify it.

I ran some rough Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) numbers on both new and lightly used. They came in much higher than expected and scared us away, for now. One day, when we are not working full-time and we can take a couple of years to play in the Sportsmobile, it might make sense, but not now.

I thought others might find the calculations interesting. I made a lot of assumptions and took quite a few short-cuts, so one could easily argue with the approach, but I think that regardless of the details, the overall picture is sound.

Overall cost: $110K new, $77K used, includes WA state sales tax. (E350 V10, RB50, penthouse, 4x4, plus some extras but not too many)

New:
Depreciation: $5,500/yr $458/mo
Interest/LOC: $4,400/yr $367/mo
Fuel: $2,333/yr $194/mo
Other: $1,167/yr $97/mo
Insurance: $632/yr $53/mo
Registration: $300/yr $25/mo
Total: $14,332/yr $1,194/mo

Used:
Depreciation: $5,133/yr $428/mo
Interest/LOC: $3,080/yr $257/mo
Fuel: $2,333/yr $194/mo
Other: $1,167/yr $97/mo
Insurance: $608/yr $51/mo
Registration: $300/yr $25/mo
Total: $12,621/yr $1,027/mo

Depreciation: I assumed 20 years for new, 15 years for used, value $0 at end.
Interest/Lost opportunity cost: Some money may come from loan, some from savings. I either pay interest on the loan or I miss out on earnings from savings. Assume 4%/year (non-depreciated). This is a real SWAG but I think it is fair.
Fuel: 7K miles/year @ 12mpg & $4/gallon
Other: assume repairs and maintenance cost half the fuel cost
Insurance: I got quotes from my insurance company

Things that jumped out for me:
* Overall, not a huge savings for used - might as well get exactly what we want new.
* The yearly cost is way too high for casual use. Whether you calculate cost/mile or cost/day spent in the Sportsmobile, it just does not cut it. For that kind of money we could take luxury treks in Bhutan or a cruise to Antarctica.
* The biggest costs by far are depreciation/LOC -the bottom line is that dumping $100K+ into a vehicle is seriously expensive.

We are now looking for a hard-sided pop-up trailer for the Pacific Northwest monsoon season and will tent camp otherwise. One day maybe, we'll just say screw the TCO numbers, but not yet.

Cheers,
Chris.

I mean this in the most unoffensive way I can. If this is how you think about things I don't know that you would be the type of person that would be capable of enjoying a SMB to the fullest. I didn't have a 100k super rig like you're derscribing but I did beat the brakes of mine in Baja on a regular basis. If you can afford it get it if not don't, but don't get to deep into things that are supposed to be fun if they require that much pre-meditation.

 

[southpier]

and that 60$ meal you had last night ...

 

[UHAULER]

and that 60$ meal you had last night ...

You have to pay to get rid of today.....

 

[JRhetts]

Edit:
...
The point i am trying to get across is
waiting to save a few bucks or keeping the comfort level lower
by having a older or more cost effective rig, may NOT be worth it in the long haul.....

...
ALL these are a non issue if you cant make the trip

Just my Two Satang

bw

Well put, Bill. And I also very much liked Edroids addition.

I calculated and posted the actual 4-year useage costs of our first EarthRoamer elsewhere on this Forum; came out to be about $40/day, a period of heavy and regular travel for us [living in it for as much a 2-3 mo at a time]. This eventually led to purchasing a Fuso-FM based rig.

The challenge and anxiety about significantly redesigning and rebuilding the house [+ minor mods to the truck itself] has turned into one of the most satisfying accomplishments of my adult life. Put a price on a 3-month solo trip in the Yukon this spring and summer to the most remote places a 23,000# 4WD vehicle can go, with only the exhaust brake falling off the truck [quickly and easily bolted back in place before anything broke] and having 3 cabinet latches break and have to be replaced by spares I was carrying with me. I loved the trip and was deeply rewarded by the pleasure of my design and build out.

The total cost of the rig may not be "rational", but then enjoyment and adventure aren't either! Different folks are satisfied by different things. One of my best friends is most satisfied with a cheap acquisition, I more by the quality and functionality of something.

John

 

[mudmony]

really

I am suprise at the scrutiny of how people spend thier own $$$$

 

[haven]

Just wait, mudmony, you could be next to go under the microscope...

 

[mudmony]

We took another pass at getting a Sportsmobile. This time is was more serious than ever. But when I ran the numbers, we just could not justify it.

I ran some rough Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) numbers on both new and lightly used. They came in much higher than expected and scared us away, for now. One day, when we are not working full-time and we can take a couple of years to play in the Sportsmobile, it might make sense, but not now.

I thought others might find the calculations interesting. I made a lot of assumptions and took quite a few short-cuts, so one could easily argue with the approach, but I think that regardless of the details, the overall picture is sound.

Overall cost: $110K new, $77K used, includes WA state sales tax. (E350 V10, RB50, penthouse, 4x4, plus some extras but not too many)

New:
Depreciation: $5,500/yr $458/mo
Interest/LOC: $4,400/yr $367/mo
Fuel: $2,333/yr $194/mo
Other: $1,167/yr $97/mo
Insurance: $632/yr $53/mo
Registration: $300/yr $25/mo
Total: $14,332/yr $1,194/mo

Used:
Depreciation: $5,133/yr $428/mo
Interest/LOC: $3,080/yr $257/mo
Fuel: $2,333/yr $194/mo
Other: $1,167/yr $97/mo
Insurance: $608/yr $51/mo
Registration: $300/yr $25/mo
Total: $12,621/yr $1,027/mo

Depreciation: I assumed 20 years for new, 15 years for used, value $0 at end.
Interest/Lost opportunity cost: Some money may come from loan, some from savings. I either pay interest on the loan or I miss out on earnings from savings. Assume 4%/year (non-depreciated). This is a real SWAG but I think it is fair.
Fuel: 7K miles/year @ 12mpg & $4/gallon
Other: assume repairs and maintenance cost half the fuel cost
Insurance: I got quotes from my insurance company

Things that jumped out for me:
* Overall, not a huge savings for used - might as well get exactly what we want new.
* The yearly cost is way too high for casual use. Whether you calculate cost/mile or cost/day spent in the Sportsmobile, it just does not cut it. For that kind of money we could take luxury treks in Bhutan or a cruise to Antarctica.
* The biggest costs by far are depreciation/LOC -the bottom line is that dumping $100K+ into a vehicle is seriously expensive.

We are now looking for a hard-sided pop-up trailer for the Pacific Northwest monsoon season and will tent camp otherwise. One day maybe, we'll just say screw the TCO numbers, but not yet.

Cheers,
Chris.

sorry had to comment again, with this process of thought, one will be stuck on the couch crunching ###s, until its to late,,life depreciates