R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
Sounds like you pretty much went down the same thought process I did on this. I just decided to stick with the V8 and just get rid of the evil auto trans for now.
TD5 or 300TDI into a NAS D2?
- Thread starter R_Lefebvre
- Start date
gjackson
FRGS
Late in the game, but I'll throw my 2c in:
R380 swap for a ZF is easy. Did it in a RRC and it took a weekend. Could be done in a day if you drink less beer than me. You should get a manual center console to replace the auto one. Holes are different.
Having just completed a 300tdi swap into a RRC, I can say that is pretty easy as well (with Keiths help). Just a few wiring glitches, but since the RRC came factory with a 300, it was easy. Engine mounts between V8 and 300 (or TD5) are very different. There is no 'bolt-in' diesel for a late model V8 Rover.
On the R380, I have to say I like that trans even-though it is out of a car and not a light truck. The late model ones shift well and as long as you take your time shifting so as not to kill the synchros, they last relatively well.
Good luck with the trans swap.
cheers
R380 swap for a ZF is easy. Did it in a RRC and it took a weekend. Could be done in a day if you drink less beer than me. You should get a manual center console to replace the auto one. Holes are different.
Having just completed a 300tdi swap into a RRC, I can say that is pretty easy as well (with Keiths help). Just a few wiring glitches, but since the RRC came factory with a 300, it was easy. Engine mounts between V8 and 300 (or TD5) are very different. There is no 'bolt-in' diesel for a late model V8 Rover.
On the R380, I have to say I like that trans even-though it is out of a car and not a light truck. The late model ones shift well and as long as you take your time shifting so as not to kill the synchros, they last relatively well.
Good luck with the trans swap.
cheers
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
Do you have *another* 300TDI RR? I was just reading through your thread, and thought it came with the 300 already?
revor
Explorer
Ahh Graham!!!! You gave it up!!
Okay here's my $.02 for what it's worth.
You can put a 300 in a D2, I wouldn't even think of putting it in frot of an auto in such a heavy car (weighs more than a 110 SW) If you want to prevent being run over on the interstate. An r380 with a 1.4 T Case will get you 80 MPH. You can tune them till your hearts content but the engine will die sooner.
You will need to make the Body Control Module happy to live without signal from it's pal the ECU. This sounds difficult but I have never tried it.
Everything will be Custom from the radiator to the Transfer case crossmember.
All of this = time and time = $$$$ and you not be emissions compliant.
On the other hand sticking a TD5 in a D2 should be a breeze if you have all the components that 1/2 a car thing makes total sense. If you hunt around I think you can get one at a reasonable price.
The conversion will still be time consuming but it will be more remove and replace rather than re-engineering the vehicle.
AND
You might end up with something vaguely emissions legal.
Owning both engines I love them both for what they are but for something like a D2 I would lean more towards a TD5, the only reason I didn't get a TD5 in my new 90 id because it cost more than I was ready to spend.
Okay here's my $.02 for what it's worth.
You can put a 300 in a D2, I wouldn't even think of putting it in frot of an auto in such a heavy car (weighs more than a 110 SW) If you want to prevent being run over on the interstate. An r380 with a 1.4 T Case will get you 80 MPH. You can tune them till your hearts content but the engine will die sooner.
You will need to make the Body Control Module happy to live without signal from it's pal the ECU. This sounds difficult but I have never tried it.
Everything will be Custom from the radiator to the Transfer case crossmember.
All of this = time and time = $$$$ and you not be emissions compliant.
On the other hand sticking a TD5 in a D2 should be a breeze if you have all the components that 1/2 a car thing makes total sense. If you hunt around I think you can get one at a reasonable price.
The conversion will still be time consuming but it will be more remove and replace rather than re-engineering the vehicle.
AND
You might end up with something vaguely emissions legal.
Owning both engines I love them both for what they are but for something like a D2 I would lean more towards a TD5, the only reason I didn't get a TD5 in my new 90 id because it cost more than I was ready to spend.
antisoshal
New member
Not really an option. I wont be operating anything that gets 14mpg. Money not withstanding, I just cant mentally justify it at this point. If it comes down to that, then a landRover simply isn't in my future. Ive been switching out the ighting for LED's at home. reducing energy consumption. My other vehicle will be a VW TDI. Its about finding ways to keep what I enjoy and make it more sustainable and less guilt ridden.
Was leaning to a D1 at this point as well, as I hear the TDI conversion is quite a bit easier. My desire to make it a D2 was based on extra cargo space and the improved quality of the interior. There also seem to be MANY more quality D2's on the market at this point, so it was a practicality as well. Its simply not about money, but having a moderately sustainable vehicle that doesnt drink at an alarming rate. Eventually this will end up being used as a daily transport half of the time when we relocate to Colorado. The idea of being able to burn SVO in the future should things get worse than they already are also intrigues me as well. Its more about being able to continue to drive in hard times, not merely making it affordable. I know the investment is unlikely to pay off. Sadly no one seems to make a vehicle I like that's available in the USA, so I'm trying to find a path where I can make my own. Life has been full of crappy compromises so far, and this is my first attempt and trying to pay for the luxury of making life compromise for me.
antisoshal
New member
After reading forums for a few weeks now I've noticed no posts whatsoever regarding the International/Navistar 300TDI variant still made in Brazil. I've found a few UK shops that sell the engine and entire kits for rover conversion, and the engine seems quite superior to the original 300TDI, so it seems odd to me that no one mentions them at all. Anyone have any experience with this?
Heres one UK shop selling full conversion kits:
http://www.mdengineering.co.uk/index.php?act=category&cat_id=1
They even sell complete transmissions properly geared for their product.
Heres one UK shop selling full conversion kits:
http://www.mdengineering.co.uk/index.php?act=category&cat_id=1
They even sell complete transmissions properly geared for their product.
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
I believe the engine is no longer available. I'm on an HS2800 mailing list, and that seems to be the case. Guys are snatching up replacement parts while they can, and they're talking about looking for alternatives.
My bike gets 60-80mpg and I drive it as much as I can. I figure that makes up for my gas guzzling truck.
My bike gets 60-80mpg and I drive it as much as I can. I figure that makes up for my gas guzzling truck.
gjackson
FRGS
Nope. Just swapping the 300 into a different body. I'll start a thread on it soon.
I wish I had another one.
cheers
antisoshal
New member
More info gradually extracted:
Apparently the Isuzu variant of the Cummins 4BT was an available powerplant in australian rovers. I've found a few people who have put the Cummins 4BT in rovers, including a rather impressive D2 job that I would probably have just bought when he sold it last year had I the money back then. He even managed to keep the ABS working without a rover trans. The 2800TGV appears to be a bored out and pimped 300TDI and as such will likely pose long term reliability issues. The 4BT, on the other hand, seems to be rough but essentially indestructible, extremely common, easily repaired and reliable.I like the idea that any truck stop mechanic could service the engine as well. Would definitely require use of a non-rover transmission. Another plus is its a common engine for use with SVO and blends and seems to tolerate it well if the engine in a 2006 or prior.
Apparently the Isuzu variant of the Cummins 4BT was an available powerplant in australian rovers. I've found a few people who have put the Cummins 4BT in rovers, including a rather impressive D2 job that I would probably have just bought when he sold it last year had I the money back then. He even managed to keep the ABS working without a rover trans. The 2800TGV appears to be a bored out and pimped 300TDI and as such will likely pose long term reliability issues. The 4BT, on the other hand, seems to be rough but essentially indestructible, extremely common, easily repaired and reliable.I like the idea that any truck stop mechanic could service the engine as well. Would definitely require use of a non-rover transmission. Another plus is its a common engine for use with SVO and blends and seems to tolerate it well if the engine in a 2006 or prior.
Yorker
Adventurer
Yeah they used the Isuzu 4bd1/4bd1t, a good engine. Loads of info on it here:
http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?16-Isuzu-4BD1T-2T
there is also a 6 cylinder relative- the Isuzu 6bd1, it supposedly has a has a "B10" rating of 410,000 miles- pretty impressive. It won't fit in a Disco but might be able to be stuffed in a 110:
http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?3319-what-engine-is-this&p=27327
Look Dougal up for more info.
there was a neat Land Rover on ebay that had one in it:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Land-Rover-3-9-...2?cmd=ViewItem&pt=AU_Cars&hash=item23086eadce
I am sure there will be more for sale- plus I think I read somewhere that the Australian army is going to sell theirs (Perentie) off soon- maybe that is true or maybe it is just a rumor.
David Harris
Expedition Leader
I really like the specs on this engine for simplicity, power and longevity. They are rated for over 300,000 miles. However, they are quite a bit larger than a 300 Tdi and about 200-300 lbs heavier. You get more strength for this size and weight, but it is a tight fit into a Disco, with only about 3/4" from top of turbo to the hood. You need to space out the bump stops 1" to keep the oil pan from hitting the axle. A lot of work to put in with, say, an NV4500, but if done correctly, in the end you would end up with something superior to a 300 Tdi and R380 in power and reliability. I know from other discussions that you can simply pump up the 300 Tdi to get the extra power, but this costs more dollars and it surely effects the reliability of the motor, as noted for the HS2.8, which seems to have had more than its share of problems. I'm weighing importing a V8 110 and swapping the Isuzu over instead of going for the Disco conversion though.
As regards the TD5, apparently it's a great motor, having dealt with the V8, I don't like computers/sensors and am certainly not going to worry about their longevity in a vehicle I plan to drive around the world.