Tesla Cybertruck: The Future?

[luthj]

Its really entertaining reading these treads with the trolls blocked. You see reasonable posters trying to stay on topic with relevant cogent information. And.... that's it. Strange!

 

[Pilat]

Its really entertaining reading these treads with the trolls blocked. You see reasonable posters trying to stay on topic with relevant cogent information. And.... that's it. Strange!

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Yeah, I guess I could find loads of memes about arguing with "true believers", and how it's impossible, because they will lie throughout and argue from a point of ignorance while denying reality.

 

[djfriimixx]

So what's everyone's thoughts on the stainless unibody. As opposed to body-on-frame

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[luthj]

Unibody is the best option for an EV. The battery packs are large, and the flex from the frame would likely cause issues. This also saves weight, which is important for energy efficiency, since EVs tend to be on the heavier side. I am not sold on the stainless, especially bare. But if the drivetrain is good for 300k+ miles as is anticipated, it makes sense to make the body as corrosion resistant as reasonable.

 

[Pilat]

Unibody is the best option for an EV.

This isn't a unibody, though.

 

[Pilat]

So what's everyone's thoughts on the stainless unibody. As opposed to body-on-frame

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It's not a unibody. And here for a bit of a read (thanks for the link Todd'n'Natalie):

Tesla Cybertruck design questioned by major safety body

<-- click

 

[Todd n Natalie]

But if the drivetrain is good for 300k+ miles as is anticipated, it makes sense to make the body as corrosion resistant as reasonable.

Could aluminum work for that purpose? Not as durable but, would the lighter material (As opposed to stainless steel) help extend the range and add towing abilities?

 

[luthj]

Aluminum has some other issues with fatigue cracking. Corrosion resistance is good depending on the alloy. Since welding returns the HAZ on aluminum to the zero temper condition, most aluminum bodies are bonded and riveted together. This adds cost, and there is crevices for corrosion.

Aluminum itself is not very corrosion resistant. The oxide layer on its surface is. Certain chemicals disrupt this layer, so you need to use marine grade aluminum, which has lower strength, or you need good coatings. Aluminum is a bit harder to repair.

Aluminum is also a lot hard to form into complex shapes (everything except this truck, lol!). One option is superforming with high pressure gas, but thats expensive. For non structural panels aluminum is a good choice to cut weight.

 

[djfriimixx]

Could aluminum work for that purpose? Not as durable but, would the lighter material (As opposed to stainless steel) help extend the range and add towing abilities?

I doubt it. Since the body is structural the aluminum would have to be far thicker to compensate for being weaker. It's certainly possible. But I wouldn't bet much weight savings.



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[djfriimixx]

workers will want to see out of their cabin and that won't be possible with the A-pillars raked at such an angle.

Personally I don't think they'll be that bad. Reminds me of the old Pontiac transport. That said. I'm used to driving blind.

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[Pilat]

Aluminum has some other issues with fatigue cracking. Corrosion resistance is good depending on the alloy. Since welding returns the HAZ on aluminum to the zero temper condition, most aluminum bodies are bonded and riveted together. This adds cost, and there is crevices for corrosion.

Aluminum itself is not very corrosion resistant. The oxide layer on its surface is. Certain chemicals disrupt this layer, so you need to use marine grade aluminum, which has lower strength, or you need good coatings. Aluminum is a bit harder to repair.

Aluminum is also a lot hard to form into complex shapes (everything except this truck, lol!). One option is superforming with high pressure gas, but thats expensive. For non structural panels aluminum is a good choice to cut weight.

Superforming using heat and pressure/vacuum is done by Morgan in the UK to save money. Not a real problem at all.

You don't need to use "marine grade" (whatever that actually means) either, as there are various alu alloys out there perfectly fine to make cars out of. In fact, lots of cars have an aluminium unibody - including the shell. And although "certain chemicals" do strip the oxidisation layer, it is never permanent. It is done just before you prime it. If left too long (not very long at all), the oxidisation layer returns very quickly.

Superforming - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Morgan began superforming their wings quite a few years back (2013, if I recall correctly), and now all their panels are made with superforming for the newer unibody cars.

Ignore the date (it says 15th january 2000 12:00 am):

Aluminium wings get production flying | The Engineer

Construction of the coveted Morgan car benefits from the combination of modern and traditional techniques. A more curved body shape, better hood line and increased visibility are features of the newest Morgan sports car. The cars also have one-piece wings made from SPF (superplastically formed)...

www.theengineer.co.uk

 

[Pilat]

I thought even the Tesla fans might be interested in the following:

Goodwin said Tesla had a history of prioritising occupant protection ahead of other areas of ANCAP testing, including pedestrians and cyclists.

He pointed to the most recent Tesla Model 3 ANCAP rating. While it scored five stars, the vulnerable road user score was the lowest of the four categories evaluated, at just 74 per cent.

“We’ve got a concern that Tesla is very interested in the occupants of the vehicle, but it can’t ignore the other road users as well,” said Goodwin. “ANCAP’s protocols are well known and what we would expect is that a vehicle should be able to protect the occupants of the vehicle as well as those other road users … including pedestrians and cyclists.”

And this, just to get you a perspective on the future of this "cybertruck":

“Thinking about other road users there, it’s got a fairly harsh front and not a whole lot of areas that would provide some give if there was a strike with a pedestrian,” said Goodwin of the Cybertruck.

Goodwin also questioned the thick steel “exoskeleton”, which Elon Musk says makes it tough and resistant to dents, something demonstrated by attacking the concept car with a sledge hammer, something that left no marks.

“We would expect that a vehicle should be able to absorb some (crash) energy because if it doesn’t absorb some energy … it will be the people inside the vehicle who bear the brunt.”

Potential devastating danger of Tesla ute

The world’s most radical pick-up truck may be a CO2-friendly boon to the environment but could pose dangers to other road users, according to the head of the Australasian New Car Assessment Program (ANCAP), the leading crash test authority in Australia.

www.news.com.au

 

[Boatbuilder79]

So what's everyone's thoughts on the stainless unibody. As opposed to body-on-frame

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I think he let the engineers run roughshod over the artsy fartsy designers to get it that ugly.

But If it works and they can build it with the tooling they have then I can learn to like it.

 

[F350joe]

Aluminum has some other issues with fatigue cracking. Corrosion resistance is good depending on the alloy. Since welding returns the HAZ on aluminum to the zero temper condition, most aluminum bodies are bonded and riveted together. This adds cost, and there is crevices for corrosion.

Aluminum itself is not very corrosion resistant. The oxide layer on its surface is. Certain chemicals disrupt this layer, so you need to use marine grade aluminum, which has lower strength, or you need good coatings. Aluminum is a bit harder to repair.

Aluminum is also a lot hard to form into complex shapes (everything except this truck, lol!). One option is superforming with high pressure gas, but thats expensive. For non structural panels aluminum is a good choice to cut weight.

My 70yo Grumman aluminum canoe has held up really well and has been through a lot more than any 4x4. I’m thinking it’s a cost thing. Can probably get a better price if ordering SS for both rockets and trucks. I also wonder if the plan is to just vinyl wrap whatever they end up using,

 

[F350joe]

I think he let the engineers run roughshod over the artsy fartsy designers to get it that ugly.

But If it works and they can build it with the tooling they have then I can learn to like it.

A veneer with some high gloss marine epoxy, bam, cyber woody.