Thai Mog? - What the heck is this thing?

[dhackney]

http://www.killeraxles.com/bolt_on_portale_e.html

http://www.dynatrac.com/products/axles/portals.html

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/suspensions/portal-axles.html

These look like great options for converting to portals.

I was wondering if anyone had any kits for the type of rotated diff drivetrain like these chassis use.

I don't know enough to know if that design is better or worse than portals, it's just a curiosity question.

 

[dwh]

Rockwell "top loaders" used to be de rigueur with the monster truck crowd. Here's a decent primer on the subject:

http://www.trucktoyzperformance.com/realm/monster_truck_axles.htm

 

[Clutch]

These look like great options for converting to portals.

I was wondering if anyone had any kits for the type of rotated diff drivetrain like these chassis use.

I don't know enough to know if that design is better or worse than portals, it's just a curiosity question.

Here you go, not really a kit per say. Specs are in the link under "axles"

http://www.boyceequipment.com/



There are stacks and stacks of those type of axles in the military salvage yards here in Tucson.

This will give you an idea how they are under a normal size pickup.

 

[dhackney]

Rockwell "top loaders" used to be de rigueur with the monster truck crowd. Here's a decent primer on the subject:

http://www.trucktoyzperformance.com/realm/monster_truck_axles.htm

Thanks, greatly appreciated. I've heard the term "top loader" before but did not know what it referred to. Shows how little I know about trucks.

Here you go, not really a kit per say. Specs are in the link under "axles"

http://www.boyceequipment.com/

View attachment 130323

There are stacks and stacks of those type of axles in the military salvage yards here in Tucson.

This will give you an idea how they are under a normal size pickup.

View attachment 130325

Thanks for the info.

Great photo. Really gives some perspective on what a conversion looks like.


Should I take it that since I have yet to see this axle design on an overlanding vehicle anywhere in the world that there are few if any practical advantages that would make this design worthwhile for overlanding purposes?

 

[Clutch]

Thanks for the info.

Great photo. Really gives some perspective on what a conversion looks like.


Should I take it that since I have yet to see this axle design on an overlanding vehicle anywhere in the world that there are few if any practical advantages that would make this design worthwhile for overlanding purposes?

You're welcome, the military used them for years and years, so "somewhat" practical in a overland situation, however, your center of gravity gets high, and top speed will suffer...55 mph IIRC, maybe you can get 65 out of them, but I doubt much more.

That Thai "Mog", might be based an old Deuce and a Half (2.5 Ton) just with a different body. This one is a "bobbed deuce" the rear axle has been removed
and the frame shortened. The bottom picture is how they came stock. If you want a bare bones overlander, and not in much of a hurry. A deuce is
a good platform to start from. Can pick them up very cheap. I know of at least 30 of them sitting in salvage yard here in Tucson. My neighbor
down the street has one, not for the faint of heart though. They are loud, slow, and very uncomfortable....perfect for back country exploration!

 

[shortbus4x4]

Looks like a duece and a half needed a body and a Forward Control Landrover had part of a body to donate.

 

[dwh]

Should I take it that since I have yet to see this axle design on an overlanding vehicle anywhere in the world that there are few if any practical advantages that would make this design worthwhile for overlanding purposes?

Top loaders are heavy as sin, and with any tires less than 48" the ground clearance isn't anything to write home about. For just about any application short of military or monster trucks, there are generally better choices available.

I'm a huge fan of Mog axles. A) portals, which no only increase ground clearance, but also put less stress on the axle shafts and increase gear ratio options, B) factory air lockers, C) designed to have the housings pressurized for fording, D) CTIS is mechanically simple through the portal hub shafts and E) hydraulic disk brakes.


I'm not so sure about using an ex-U.S. military truck as an RTW type overlander. I seem to recall there is some regulation about not taking them out of the country. If I was going to swap axles onto a non-military truck, I'd opt for Mog axles, which can be had up to (IIRC) 33,600 lb.s rating for a pair and are already designed for single rear tires.

Dana does make some heavy-duty stuff, and they also make portals for many of their axles - but Darrin Fink ran into a problem with Dana axles when doing his FM conversion to 4x4 - IIRC, he couldn't get any that were factory approved for single rears, or he could, but the rear wheels wouldn't work right on the front. Something like that.



I have to say...since I've been looking at this:

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/81279-Tatra-T815-my-saga?highlight=t815

I've been falling more and more in love with it.

That whole rigid transaxle down the backbone idea is pretty nifty for a whole lot of reasons, not the least of which is that it eliminates the need for a torsion isolation (3-point/4-point) mounting for the box:

 

[dhackney]

but Darrin Fink ran into a problem with Dana axles when doing his FM conversion to 4x4 - IIRC, he couldn't get any that were factory approved for single rears, or he could, but the rear wheels wouldn't work right on the front. Something like that.

It is my recollection from my initial Fuso research that Mitsubishi Fuso USA would not approve any SRW conversion for factory warranty support due to a) liability and b) the need to re-certify the brakes, etc. It is my understanding that Darrin wanted to do everything with Fuso USA engineering approval and support, so he did not do a SRW conversion.

 

[LowTech]

That Thai "Mog", might be based an old Deuce and a Half (2.5 Ton) just with a different body.

That was my thought as well

 

[dhackney]

That was my thought as well

When I had the chance to see a unit working I spent quite a while looking all over a chassis for a data plate of some kind. I was unsuccessful. I couldn't find a data plate of any kind.

The 15 or so chassis that I saw used a variety of engine and transmission combinations, but all the transfer cases, diffs, frames, etc. appeared to be identical.

The mechanic at the location where I took all the detail photos indicated the chassis was made in Thailand, but could not locate a sticker or anything with the name of the manufacturer so I could take a photo of it.

That does not mean the chassis weren't created from scrap, surplus or abandoned Vietnam war era 2.5 ton chassis that were stripped of their cabs, motors and transmissions.

The local market motors and transmissions would make a lot more sense in that market.

You guys who are familiar with that chassis would need to look carefully at the detail photos to see if there is anything that could positively identify them, e.g. diff part number, etc.

 

[LowTech]

A lot of the frame (orange part) looks like a deuce frame. One of the things that stands out to me that would "not" make it a such, is that the rear axle looks like it has always been single. It doesn't look like the rear assemble had been removed and it was then set up as a single. The transfer case looks a small to me, but it does have the standard PTO take-off for the winch. I don't know a lot about winches, so I can't speak there. Some of the tank/box holding brackets look Mil.
All the blue & yellow parts are added.

I'll have to crawl under ours tomorrow and compare some things

 

[sigo]

The winch on that Thai truck is a PTO driven 10,000 lbs Garwood off of a US mil deuce. The axles look like 2.5 ton rockwells to me as well.

 

[Jim K in PA]

FWIW - Hino is a division of Toyota Motor Co., and makes commercial/industrial trucks and equipment. I am seeing more and more Hino trucks here in the eastern US over the last couple of years. Hino diesels (like the one in the mega-sheller you photographed) are quite good engines from what I have read. The older mechanical 4 cylinder turbo diesels could work well in smaller 4x4s like Jeeps and such.

I suspect the rest of the chassis is Hino, or perhaps built by a Hino subcontractor in or near Thailand.

The Rockwells are a good choice for a slow, hard working ag or commercial vehicle, but the lack of gear ratio options and other considerations as mentioned above make them a limited option for an overland vehicle. All depends on how you want to travel.

Now a bobbed deuce on air springs and portals with an 8.3 cummins, that I could live with.

 

[dwh]

It is my recollection from my initial Fuso research that Mitsubishi Fuso USA would not approve any SRW conversion for factory warranty support due to a) liability and b) the need to re-certify the brakes, etc. It is my understanding that Darrin wanted to do everything with Fuso USA engineering approval and support, so he did not do a SRW conversion.

Umm...yea. That does ring a bell.

But, that might apply to his FG conversion, but IIRC, the FM doesn't have Mitsubishi axles (or brakes).