The Anti-Trailer thread

[Andrew Walcker]

Gary, sorry to hear your experience was so negative. My offroad experience has actually been enhanced towing an AT. Part of if has to do with my two young kids and all the stuff that comes along. The only time I get tense is when I have to back up on technical trails, but it's still worth having the trailer around. What exactly were the reasons you didn't enjoy having the trailer tagging behind?

 

[GeoTracker90]

I don't think a teardrop would withstand any kind of offroad travel. I don't think it would stay together very long.

That's like saying a Suzuki Sami is going to roll everytime the owner thinks of negotiating a turn. Most teardrop trailers are owner built and that has its advantages. If you know enough to build a truck that will withstand the trails that you intend to travel, you should be able to do the same with a teardrop. That is making the assumption that you have the skills and tools to accomplish a decent level of fabrication.

One of the keys to making a teardrop off-road worthy is the trailer frame itself. Make sure that the frame is rigid enough that it won't transmit twisting forces in to the trailer body causing racking of the side walls.

Choice of materials plays a part as well as construction methods. Will you be using steel or wood?

I used 1" square tube with a 0.065" wall thickness for my first teardrop trailer and it is solid! I also ran diagonal braces in the front wall to brace the side walls. In the rear I welded a spreader that also serves as the support for the table. This also helps to keep the racking down.

If you use wood you can make the body one big torsion box. I did this on my second teardrop by cutting dados in the side walls to fit the floor and bulk heads into. Next fill the dados with a high quality water proof glue and assemble adding screws every 6" along the dado.

I've had both of these trailers down some pretty rough washboard roads and so far they haven't shaken themselves apart yet after about 5 years.

These are just my thought and my experiences. Like anything else, build it for the job at hand. The style of the trailer, either an expedition trailer like an AT or a teardrop is secondary. Size, now that may be an issue depending on the circumstances and the trail.

Mike

 

[Martyn]

Since someone else brought this up, I thought this a good time to express my opinion on this.

I had a m101CDN and pulled it behind My Discovery II for three days in the dirt and desert of Nevada. It was one of the worst experiences I have had off road. Sold it as soon as I got back. Pulling a trailer in difficult conditions and terrain is not fun and not for me. I can see the advantages of trailers, but most seem to gloss over the drawbacks with them. Do your homework and make your decision based on your own situation. Maybe a trailer is for you, but then again maybe not...

I'm in agreement that you need to do your homework, and that maybe a trailer isn't for everyone. But at the same time not all trailers are created equal and the selection of a suitable trailer is also critical if you want it to be a success.

Military trailers are a good $ deal, they were also designed to carry cargo. Little or no other consideration was made in their design as far as the ride characteristic goes, and there is very little you can do to change them without major modifications.

Yes you can change out the springs for a softer ride, but you can't take the flex out of the C channel chassis unless you box it in.

So military trailers are what they are, and for some people that's fine. It sounds to me like you had a complete mis-match between tow vehicle and trailer. Had you been in an ex military Jeep your whole ride experience would have been different (possible not for the better).

A Discovery II is a very sophisticated off road vehicle that provides a very comfortable ride over difficult conditions. I believe the key to success here would have been to pair the sophisticated vehicle with a sophisticated trailer.

 

[PCRover]

I was inspired to buy and build up my M101CDN from posts and information found on this site. The information here is fantastic and I hope my experience can be valuable to others. I certainly learned a lot building and using the M101CDN trailer.

This was on a 4 day trek across Nevada via off road trails only. I might have had different findings if this trip was somewhere else. Remember this is my experience and judging by all the positive posts regarding trailers on this site, my experience is not the norm.

Negatives:

- On tight trails hard to find locations to stop to allow others to pass while continuing to "Tread Lightly". Difficult to turn around if required.

- Wheel track width didn't match towing rig, causing issues in ruts. I highly recommend matching your trailer to your tow vehicle.

- Constantly falling behind others due to increased time required to navigate ruts, rocks and other obstacles.

- 6 wheels instead of 4 made for 50% more dust. Out of courtesy I took up the rear.

- The added trailer wheels were like anchors in the the Nevada dry lake bed silt forcing me to fall behind the group. Gas economy suffered dramatically also pulling an anchor. The silt was up to 12" deep in spots.

- Dust from the tow vehicle was deposited on the trailer requiring 30 minutes of cleaning before access to inside of trailer could be made. This got old real quick. The quick setup time of a trailer with RTT was negated by the dust accumulation and required cleaning. There was usually 1/2" of dirt on top of the trailer after a few hours of driving. I am not exaggerating here. Dirt accumulated on RTT cover and penetrated to inside of tent around edges. Nevada silt is incredibly fine and gets into everything.

- External water tank with faucet was coated in dirt and dust requiring cleaning before using.

- Popped a sidewall on one trailer wheel in a rocky canyon. Having six wheels on the ground puts you at 50% more risk of a tire failure. Took an hour to find a good spot to work and change to the spare.

Positives:

- Plenty of storage to bring along lots of stuff.

- You look cool pulling the trailer and lots of people ask what the heck it is.

 

[robert j. yates]

So Gary...what really is your point here? We all know you don't like trailers so maybe you should just move on.

 

[PCRover]

...What exactly were the reasons you didn't enjoy having the trailer tagging behind?

Andrew asked, I answered. Nothing more or less. I moved on quite a while ago. Sorry you take offense to my post answering a legitimate question.

OBTW, I have nothing against trailers, I think they are great if you use them in the proper environment. Unfortunately after spending thousands of dollars I found a trailer is not appropriate for my intended use.

 

[TheGillz]

I hope I don't sound argumentative but I would like to comment on the negatives listed above.

Tight trails/others passing: while I can see this being an added hassle from time to time, any two vehicles passing on a really tight trail is a pain if you are trying not to drive off the trail so far.

Wheel track width: this is something you learned and something that others hopefully will take into consideration including myself when planning a trailer purchase/build but it is an engineering/planning problem, not a problem intrinsic to having a trailer.

Falling behind: I would ask how many times you went out with the trailer before such an extensive and long expo? proper practice and planning may well have helped it not be such an issue on such a long trip.

50% more dust: While you are obviously a very thoughtful guy to pull up the rear as to not be unfair with the dust distribution, I would think that in any group expo where dust is an issue, taking turns in the lead/rear would have been a more equitable for all

Dust in everything including RTT: Most likely exaserbated by your generosity of pulling up the rear, maybe having an air pump to blow gear off when going in an area known for such fine dust sounds like it may have helped with this. Plus this is really a geographical issue not a trailer issue.

Dust on water tank/faucet: see above and a plastic bag and duct tape would have gone a long way to help this.

Popped sidewall: While this may well have not been avoidable, did the trailer have the original old tires and wheels or did it have newer well made off-road tires and wheels that your tow rig had? Also see point about practice. (of course not assuming you didn't just something for others to think about trying to learn from your lessons)


I hope I don't come accross with a bad attitude, I just think your lesson has a lot of things for all of us, especially someone like me being so inexperienced to learn from, and also thinking your experience maybe didn't have to be as negative as it was...

Clark

 

[PCRover]

Clark, I think your input is great. I realize people can get defensive when someone has a negative experiance with something they are passionate about. My post was meant to be informative as to what I experienced, not to challenge the validity of a trailer for off road use and certainly not to bash them. Solutions to the issues that bothered me could be helpful to others who are considering a trailer or have experienced similar conditions that I did. Also what is bothersome to me might not be a big deal to others, everyone has there own tolerances.

 

[Robert Bills]

I've watched this thread with some interest. Here's my two cents:

I've been an offroader for 48 years, driving various jeeps, trucks, ATVs, motorcycles, etc. I've pulled military trailers and civilian Bantams on everything from washboard roads to the Rubicon. I've also been an avid backpacker, and after my knees weren't up to the task any longer, for many years my choice for camping on road trips was a BMW motorcycle with tank bag and saddlebags.

I learned long ago to tailor my equipment and my gear to my specific needs, to know the difference between a "need" and a "want," and to make reasoned choices. As a backpacker and as a motorcycle camper, one of my prime considerations was weight and volume. I learned, sometimes the hard way, that carrying too many "wants" made my life more difficult rather than less. As a jeeper, I learned that filling limited space with luxuries at the expense of spare parts could leave me stranded. As an owner of a Bantam trailer, I learned that the luxury of a full field kitchen and many of the comforts of home often meant paying the price of turning a challenging day of jeeping into an ordeal, but that often the price was worth paying.

Offroad vehicles and trailers are tools. The gear you carry should also be considered tools. Bear in mind the maxim, "If the the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail."

If you begin to think that you must always tow your trailer regardless of the terrain and length of trip, you will always be at risk of turning a day of offroading fun into a day of difficult technical challenges you would not otherwise have. For example, unless I was carrying food and cooking gear for a large group, I would not take my trailer over the Rubicon. On the other hand, if I was spending a week or more in Baja, or taking day trips from a base camp accessible by dirt road or easy trails, my trailer is more likely to be an asset rather than a burden.

My Bantam trailer is now used primarily for Boy Scout campouts (new adult volunteers tend to come back when you make them comfortable on their first outing), and when offroading for base camp camping or extended trips when I have too many passengers to be able to carry more than extra clothes and MREs inside my jeep. Since my family seems happier when they have some of the comforts of home, the extra work and inconvenience of pulling a trailer accross difficult terrain is worth it to me. It would not be worth it if I were traveling alone or with one companion, because I have a more compact set of gear that allows two to be comfortable and well fed without using a roof rack or hanging stuff off the sides of my jeep. I have no need for my trailer in that situation.

 

[Tucson T4R]

Good discussion points about towing trailers. A agree that your intended usage is key to planning what trailer design works best or not for you. If you plan to tow over rough 4X4 trails then having a properly designed AT type trailer is key to success. For me, the base camp comfort and ability to tow through mild 4X4 roads was more important. I know I am much happier with my King Kamper than I would be with an AT with a RTT.

Just shows the diversity of the overlanders we have here on Expo.

I like to have all my gear packed and ready and just add food and water to be ready to roll. I also like to be able to leave my base camp set up and disconnect my truck to explore local back roads without all the weight in my truck.

To me if you decide you want a trailer, the three key points are the making sure the design is rugged enough for it's intended usage, having very good air seals at all openings to ensure the fine road dust can not get in, and towing a trailer with matching track width to your tow vehicle.

 

[MaddBaggins]

So how come folks (even riding 2 up) are able to travel the world on their bikes, with just the stuff they can haul on a bike, but as soon as you move into a vehicle of some sort there isn't enough room? Always wondered that, as I'm guilty myself sometimes. On the 'ol Harley or Honda 650XL, 2 pants etc. will do, but once in the Jeep it isn't enough? Do tell.

It's all about comfort level. What level of comfort do you want? I can do an 8 day backpacking trip with a 60lb(on day one) pack. Suddenly, when camping with a vehicle you discover all the other stuff you can bring like a fridge/cooler, nice chairs, a big tent and comfy bedding, pillows, changes of clothes, more than enough food and snacks, and the list goes on. When backpacking you really pair down the stuff to the absolute bare essentials. Plus, don't forget, when in a vehicle you need spares and tools and crud like that, that are heavy and take up space.

 

[MaddBaggins]

I like having my AT. It keeps the whole trip at a slower pace, which I prefer. I'm not big on racing around some really cool places. I would rather drive slower and see the sites, then when we reach camp, I have a lot of nice comforts because of the trailer.

I have already taken my AT thru stuff that would have given me pause even if I didn't have it, so I realize that for the most part, I really can take my AT anywhere I have the cajones to drive my rig.

My only negative experience with the AT was on a 4 day trip where I was the only trailer after day one. Many of the others in the group were a little grumbly about the trailer holding them up. They were into a fast paced thing and I was slowing them down. In the end, however, I did the exact same trail they did and I was hauling a trailer. From now on though, I pick my adventures more carefully. I'm not out there to be in a race.

 

[PCRover]

I may have sold the M101, but I didn't give up on trailers, just on using them for overland travel. This is my current camping trailer. I use it for base camping and only take it on maintained roads. Works great and I am very happy with it.

 

[BigTaco]

Nice looking trailer. Have any more information about it?

 

[Pokey]

I think it comes down to personal preferance. I have to say the design that you came up with seems to be a good one. If done right, it would make a good camp kitchen set up. Do you think you will end up building it?Casper
:1888fbbd:

yeap- im thinking of scrapping my original boxed (heavier) idea and trimming it down a bit. should be something like this:

-modular to slide over the swingout carrier and snug up with a few pins.
-swingout
-lower sealed/lockable box underneath where the Actionpackers/Pelicans would go.
-steel strap to hold down cases.
-rear hatch to be Durabaked/Rhinolined.
-all tube bumper to cut down on weight
-angled up to match departure angle of rig.

The main issue with the current thule-etc/types out there that are hitch based is:
-they sit too low
-they sit too far out (not snugged up)
-hitch versions are single point and wobbly *this would slide over the swingout and bolt down for no movement/wobbles-even offroad.