The Cherokee is back?

[matthewp]

While the above may be true (and likely is), you can DRAMATICALLY change the XJ for $1000 or less. A lift for the "new" Cherokee (if one is ever made), will be significantly more $ due to the complexity of the suspension systems. (I'm sure I'm not telling anyone anything new, here)

Of course the XJ is cheaper to lift, it's relatively prehistoric suspension. Comparing the suspension of the Cherokee to the Liberty is akin to comparing the YJ to the JK Wranglers, they are apples and oranges. The lift may cost more, it may be more technical, but you also get a newer vehicle with more creature comforts, etc.

 

[mbryson]

Of course the XJ is cheaper to lift, it's relatively prehistoric suspension. Comparing the suspension of the Cherokee to the Liberty is akin to comparing the YJ to the JK Wranglers, they are apples and oranges. The lift may cost more, it may be more technical, but you also get a newer vehicle with more creature comforts, etc.

I'm not sure I follow your apples/oranges analogy between the XJ-KJ and YJ-JK. The XJ-KJ debate has been going on since '01 or so. You sound like you are on the other side of the debate than me and I'm totally fine with that. A KJ is an "OK" dirt road rig (I'll give it better than XJ) and with extensive modifications (plasma cutters are involved---I think $3k would be a cheap SAS?) can do heavy trail use that an XJ can do for $1500. XJ-KJ-new Cherokee is a weird evolution, isn't it? It is to me.... I'd love to see Jeep have a modern lineup of SUVs that they had in the '90s. They really aren't even close and they really don't care. People still buy the off-road image of a Jeep. Low-range and simplicity is becoming less and less of a priority to Jeep.

I'm saying that I WANT the "archaic" suspension for the simplicity it provides vs. the "creature comforts". I'll GLADLY make the small compromise in ride quality from an IFS system for simplicity and ease of modification of a solid axle suspension. I assume that's my "farm" roots showing but there's something awesome about a solution that is simple vs. an overly complex, heavily engineered solution that detracts from the ability of the solution to adapt to multiple environments. I'll give you that IFS is great for running higher speeds down dirt roads. A decently designed solid axle system can do MANY things in low range and still run down the highway safely and comfortably. IFS is lagging in low range performance and at best is three times the $ to engineer for serious off-roading. With the new Cherokee going to IFS/IRS and then changing the whole game by it's unique 4WD system (time will tell if that's effective or problematic or both or neither) it just seems like an overly engineered, overly electronic solution that is marketed as an off-road vehicle by a company that seems to be losing their original vision (which I support and enjoy their original vision). We all will vote with our dollar. I will NEVER have a 2014 style Cherokee for the types of off-roading I currently do or plan to do in the future. It just doesn't seem the right tool for the job.

As I mentioned above, I'll be surprised if there is a reasonably priced lift available (say under $1500) for the new Cherokee. The new Cherokee will be fine for running dirt roads (as would a Chevy Celebrity) but for actual low range, off-road use, it's a poor choice due to numerous factors. To me a dirt road is a two-track, not a fire road (by definition a fire road is something a fire truck can drive down in good conditions....not exactly challenging to an off-road engineered vehicle). I'm a Jeep buyer. I was quite disappointed with their products when I went to buy a new Jeep early this year. They have lost their uniqueness in the market and have delivered products that are similar to other mfg. They used to just be happy with their role as a niche mfg. Now they are trying to be a lot of things to a lot of people. Usually not a recipe for success. I Ended up settling with a JKU (I tried to like the Grand, but it just isn't what I'm interested in AT ALL---REALLY wish the Rescue concept was available as a hardtop vehicle) and am still not sure I made the right choice due to some issues with the ABS and engine mgt. systems. If Jeep/Chrysler has trouble with those, how will an electronic based 4wd system work? I'm glad I won't have to be the guinea pig to find out.


Again, this is my opinion. We have three Jeeps at our house currently. The first one I bought because of the relatively simple design. There's NOTHING simple about the new Cherokee (or the new Grand Cherokee, but that's a whole other subject).

 

[matthewp]

I gotcha now! I see what you mean where you want the simplicity and I do agree. Also, having looked at the issue of which vehicle gave me the creature comforts I wanted vs. off-road ability (when I purchased my Jeep), I agree that modern SUVs are getting to a technical level that removes the reasonable ability to increase/improve its off-road capability. The cost to do what I wanted to my Libby was a bit of a pill when factoring the fact I wanted the job to be done. I don't see the ability or cost to get any easier, except in specifically off-road oriented vehicles like the Wrangler.

I'm not sure I follow your apples/oranges analogy between the XJ-KJ and YJ-JK. The XJ-KJ debate has been going on since '01 or so. You sound like you are on the other side of the debate than me and I'm totally fine with that. A KJ is an "OK" dirt road rig (I'll give it better than XJ) and with extensive modifications (plasma cutters are involved---I think $3k would be a cheap SAS?) can do heavy trail use that an XJ can do for $1500. XJ-KJ-new Cherokee is a weird evolution, isn't it? It is to me.... I'd love to see Jeep have a modern lineup of SUVs that they had in the '90s. They really aren't even close and they really don't care. People still buy the off-road image of a Jeep. Low-range and simplicity is becoming less and less of a priority to Jeep.

I'm saying that I WANT the "archaic" suspension for the simplicity it provides vs. the "creature comforts". I'll GLADLY make the small compromise in ride quality from an IFS system for simplicity and ease of modification of a solid axle suspension. I assume that's my "farm" roots showing but there's something awesome about a solution that is simple vs. an overly complex, heavily engineered solution that detracts from the ability of the solution to adapt to multiple environments. I'll give you that IFS is great for running higher speeds down dirt roads. A decently designed solid axle system can do MANY things in low range and still run down the highway safely and comfortably. IFS is lagging in low range performance and at best is three times the $ to engineer for serious off-roading. With the new Cherokee going to IFS/IRS and then changing the whole game by it's unique 4WD system (time will tell if that's effective or problematic or both or neither) it just seems like an overly engineered, overly electronic solution that is marketed as an off-road vehicle by a company that seems to be losing their original vision (which I support and enjoy their original vision). We all will vote with our dollar. I will NEVER have a 2014 style Cherokee for the types of off-roading I currently do or plan to do in the future. It just doesn't seem the right tool for the job.

As I mentioned above, I'll be surprised if there is a reasonably priced lift available (say under $1500) for the new Cherokee. The new Cherokee will be fine for running dirt roads (as would a Chevy Celebrity) but for actual low range, off-road use, it's a poor choice due to numerous factors. To me a dirt road is a two-track, not a fire road (by definition a fire road is something a fire truck can drive down in good conditions....not exactly challenging to an off-road engineered vehicle). I'm a Jeep buyer. I was quite disappointed with their products when I went to buy a new Jeep early this year. They have lost their uniqueness in the market and have delivered products that are similar to other mfg. They used to just be happy with their role as a niche mfg. Now they are trying to be a lot of things to a lot of people. Usually not a recipe for success. I Ended up settling with a JKU (I tried to like the Grand, but it just isn't what I'm interested in AT ALL---REALLY wish the Rescue concept was available as a hardtop vehicle) and am still not sure I made the right choice due to some issues with the ABS and engine mgt. systems. If Jeep/Chrysler has trouble with those, how will an electronic based 4wd system work? I'm glad I won't have to be the guinea pig to find out.


Again, this is my opinion. We have three Jeeps at our house currently. The first one I bought because of the relatively simple design. There's NOTHING simple about the new Cherokee (or the new Grand Cherokee, but that's a whole other subject).

 

[SouthPawXJ]

Very interesting... http://www.allpar.com/news/index.php/2013/10/cherokee-and-the-rubicon-test

 

[haven]

Jeep should post some video clips of the new Cherokee in action on the Rubicon Trail in the next week or two. I'm sure someone present will post about the body damage the Cherokee suffered. I doubt any other crossover-style SUV in its class is capable of a Rubicon crossing without assistance or major modification.

 

[mbryson]

Jeep should post some video clips of the new Cherokee in action on the Rubicon Trail in the next week or two. I'm sure someone present will post about the body damage the Cherokee suffered. I doubt any other crossover-style SUV in its class is capable of a Rubicon crossing without assistance or major modification.

I'm SURE there was some body damage. I ran the trail for the first time ever in my crawler on 38" Kevlars this year. That rig had no issues but guys that were with me in belly-button TJs with 35" tires and an XJ on 33" tires that were with me had some pretty severe issues. We ran the trail in early July and I believe we got to the trail before it was "repaired" (our objective) by Jeep Jamboree and some of the other events on the trail. We went in from the airport and out through Cadillac Hill. I deliberated a lot between taking my JKU on 35" Toyos (really 33" tires) vs. taking my crawler Jeep on 38" tires. With the overnight camping the trail requires, I really wanted to take the JKU. I'm GLAD I didn't take my JKU on the trail. It would have made it but at what cost to it's long term well-being? It would have acquired quite a few character marks and I wouldn't have wanted to run some of the optional obstacles on the trail. Despite the vehicular issues and me having a pretty nasty cold, I had a great time and would LOVE to do the trail again.

If someone took a stock "crossover-style" rig it would take an impressive driver driving pretty carefully, some pretty substantial road building in some areas (notice I didn't say throwing a rock or two--you'll be building ramps and filling in holes) and quite a bit of time due to the slow and deliberate nature you would to go to keep the rig in one piece. I don't doubt the new Cherokee made it through the trail. It'd be quite an accomplishment for a stock Rubicon JK to make it through the trail when I went through it without damage, but there were definitely some other factors to completing the trail than just hitting low-range and driving it through. In my experiences with "normal" Jeep corp drivers that have been on the trail with me in Moab for EJS, they are typically not "impressive" in their driving skills. Fun and good folk, though---mostly shocked at what their vehicles are able to do--they seem to the think driving Hells Revenge in Moab is quite a 4x4 accomplishment but there are videos of a Crown Vic on the trail....doing the optional/original obstacles on the trail is one thing. Taking the available routes for crippled or under-prepared rigs is another.

Basically, I'm insinuating that ANY stock vehicle is going to be doing some trail modifications to get through the trail. I would assume there will be some tippy types of driving due to the lack of articulation from the suspension of a street oriented vehicle (I think I've seen a commercial or two already with a couple of Cherokee or Grand shots while they are holding a wheel high?)


Sorry to come off in this thread as an XJ honk. I'm really not. They surely have their warts (steering box area of the "frame" is likely the biggest one? "Frame" would likely be the second issue.). There's a reason I don't have one now and it is that they just don't last long in the situations I was putting them through from '98-04 or so. My wheeling has changed to more extreme since then, and then back to as or more mild now. The XJ is an awesome platform for exploring/camping and up to medium trail duty due to it's ability to be modified with a modest budget and it's capability that is available in stock form. I don't see that same characteristic in ANY of the Jeep lineup except for the JK at this point. I was disappointed with the Jeep (and Toyota, Nissan, Ford, GM and Dodge) lineup for "off-road" vehicles and "settled" for the JKU.

Sorry for my rants. I'll try to shut up in this thread and let people enjoy the new Cherokee for whatever it is. I think it's styling is hideous and think it's capability is incredibly overrated by a brand that is living off it's heritage rather than the actual capability/potential capability of it's vehicles. Marketing at it's best, IMHO

 

[schmugboy]

@mbryson. I agree with everything your saying. Unfortunately we (I mean everyone on this forum, and off-roaders in general) are in the minority. So no car company is going to dedicate more than one vehicle to our niche market. I traded in my first XJ for an 01' XJ becasue I did not want a liberty, I then traded that one in for a JKUR because I was finally going to really get "off-road". I find now that being married with kids, my JK is basically a modified mini-van shuttling kids to baseball, Hockey, Soccer and everything else on the weekends instead of getting "off-road". Now I realize that is my "choice" but I'm probably more like what Jeep is trying to cater to with the new cherokees (Grand & Regular) someone that wants a smooth riding hauler that can also get somewhere into the woods and get back every now and again. And don't get me started on the whole forest road deal where all of the good trails are getting closed and you can only drive on forest or dirt roads. I am also concerned about the electronic 4x4 and on the grand the air suspension that can't be modified. Oh well, if I decide to get rid of my JK, looks like I'll be sipping lattes at Starbucks in my off-road mini-van.

 

[haven]

Jeep is taking a 2014 Cherokee to SEMA. Looks like a mild suspension lift and a rooftop rack were added.

 

[mbryson]

Jeep is taking a 2014 Cherokee to SEMA. Looks like a mild suspension lift and a rooftop rack were added.

Nice Outback?

(Not really for me)

 

[haven]

However, the Outback doesn't offer low range like the Cherokee does. (not that many Cherokee owners will need it.)

 

[fowldarr]

Reminds me of the Subaru crosstrek (I think is what the little lifted impreza is called). In a way I kind of like it.....but it is in a 'capable for a car' kind of way.

 

[fowldarr]

Or a modern day AMC Eagle....

 

[VanIsle_Greg]

No matter how much I hate this thing... I agree that the combination of the poky V6, 4500# towing capacity, low range 4x4, the available rear locking diff and what looks like a pretty stellar interior means that these will not only likely sell like hotcakes, but they actually might not be "that bad"?

I think I just threw-up little...

Ok, I am a Cherokee lover. I loved the ole FSJ Cherokees and I really dig the XJ Cherokee...so much so I have kept mine in spite of the fact I was offered $7500 cash for it and it is probably only worth 5. I think that for the target market, these could be a pretty good choice. Beats the hell out of the Compass/Patriot, doesn't have a weak CVT and weenie engine, and in the Trail Hawk version might be ok for the urban masses who venture out of the burbs.

Still think it looks like it is squinting and angry. Or needs to poop... or both.

 

[VanIsle_Greg]

Or a modern day AMC Eagle....

And for all their AMC related faults...they were actually a pretty amazing and capable vehicle.

 

[fowldarr]

I had a friend that had an eagle....a lot of fun, ski trips, and general teenage related trouble were had in that rig.