The Dana 50 TTB and getting it under my E350 van.

[bcaine]

Also, you want the D50 axle beam pivots to be at the same height as your wheel hub centerline (this again at static ride height), which can affect the placement of your steering as well.

I wrote this article awhile back for Ranger/Explorer guys that were having steering issues after putting lifts on their rigs. The principles apply just the same to a F-150/F-250 setup, so maybe you & the OP can find some use out of it as well:
http://www.therangerstation.com/Magazine/winter2008/steering_tech.htm

I had read your article a while ago, and found it very insigtful... then forgot about it. Just re-read it, and it answered my questions. Big thanks!

Last night I finally gave up on getting an extra set of hands to lift differential half of the axle to my worktable/jig, and wrestled it up on my own.

Measured from leaf centering hole to leaf centering hole and its right at 37." So that matches up. Still need to weld in mounts to hold pivots in place.

In light of the ranger station article, I think I'm going to do something odd here, and design my lift around the pitman arm.

My current design sequence:
1) Install final desired spring on 2wd axle and measure installed height, then level van and remove 2wd gear.
2) Install new pitman arm... arm selected will determine height
3) "slide" my dana50/wheel jig into place under van and lift to position where steering geometry is in line and wheels centered in wells
4) Mock up axle pivot drop brackets since pivot arms will be in place
5) Build up spring perches to height to allow for springs based on step 1. I already know the spring centers should be about 3 1/2" inside ball joints.
6) Build radius arms/brackets

Well, that was easy...

 

[4x4junkie]

If its working for you, great, run with it. But running heavy with negative camber has a slew of downsides.

Does your E450 have a dually rear?

Have you weighed the rig, front and rear axles loaded and wet?




To assume that an up-fitted E-series isnt anything close to a truck and camper with regards to weight is silly.

Most upfitted E-series Ive seen or encountered are running at or near max GVWR dry.

Add water, food, gear, and people and you will be over it, and very close to the loaded and wet weight of a truck and camper.



Sure you can add heavier coils (or leafs) up front and leafs out back, just to support that weight and keep the alignment in check,
but when you go that far you have pretty well negated any suspension "benefits" you may have gained going TTB over a solid axle.

None of that is relevant... What is relevant is that it's weight (whatever it may be) varies relatively little next to a pickup that you're plopping a big 2500lb cabover camper onto, and then removing. Obviously our MH was aligned with it already having been upfitted, since the camber is very close to dead-straight before the vehicle is loaded with our food, chairs, camp toys, etc.

So with that, I will now be honoring the OP's request.

I had read your article a while ago, and found it very insigtful... then forgot about it. Just re-read it, and it answered my questions. Big thanks!

Last night I finally gave up on getting an extra set of hands to lift differential half of the axle to my worktable/jig, and wrestled it up on my own.

Measured from leaf centering hole to leaf centering hole and its right at 37." So that matches up. Still need to weld in mounts to hold pivots in place.

In light of the ranger station article, I think I'm going to do something odd here, and design my lift around the pitman arm.

My current design sequence:
1) Install final desired spring on 2wd axle and measure installed height, then level van and remove 2wd gear.
2) Install new pitman arm... arm selected will determine height
3) "slide" my dana50/wheel jig into place under van and lift to position where steering geometry is in line and wheels centered in wells
4) Mock up axle pivot drop brackets since pivot arms will be in place
5) Build up spring perches to height to allow for springs based on step 1. I already know the spring centers should be about 3 1/2" inside ball joints.
6) Build radius arms/brackets

Well, that was easy...

That definitely is one way to go about it (which I see no issues attacking it from that angle), just make sure the final height will be something that matches up with your rear suspension.

Something else to check, is that you have about 1-1.25" of plunge travel available inside the RH axle slip yoke with it all set up on your jig (at ride height). That as well should put you in the ballpark as far as having the pivot spacing set for the correct WMS-WMS.

Glad you found the article useful.
Can't wait to see the final outcome

 

[IdaSHO]

Obviously our MH was aligned with it already having been upfitted, since the camber is very close to dead-straight before the vehicle is loaded with our food, chairs, camp toys, etc.

Your finally getting to my EXACT point.

With all of these TTB swaps, WHEN is it being aligned, and HOW?

Obviously yours was set up with correct (enough) springs to match the weight.

So how is that addressed by the average joe??



Point being, the TTB has to have the springs matched to the intended weight of the vehicle.

Otherwise, you are all over the place with regards to alignment.

And surprise!! As the springs sag, as ALL springs do, the alignment will also change.

 

[philos]

I read the article on the ranger site as well yesterday. I agree, thanks for writing and illustrating!
So much homework to do! And more saving up my pennies!
Thanks to everyone for contributing


Sent via flux capacitor

 

[justcuz]

Looked through the entire 21 page thread and no real info on ABS.
Looking into it further Ford had notched spindles where the ABS sensor reads the reluctor pressed into the back of the hub. If you look up TTB ABS there are some good pictures of the hubs, spindles and reluctor rings on the back of the hubs. The pictures are of Dana 35 and 44 spindles.
You may have to invest in a little machine work or do some further research.
I think the last Dana 50 TTB was made in 1996 and I am not sure if the F250 had 4 wheel ABS or not.
Obviously Explorers and Broncos with TTB had it, you may have to adapt it from a Dana 44 application.

 

[philos]

Looked through the entire 21 page thread and no real info on ABS.
Looking into it further Ford had notched spindles where the ABS sensor reads the reluctor pressed into the back of the hub. If you look up TTB ABS there are some good pictures of the hubs, spindles and reluctor rings on the back of the hubs. The pictures are of Dana 35 and 44 spindles.
You may have to invest in a little machine work or do some further research.
I think the last Dana 50 TTB was made in 1996 and I am not sure if the F250 had 4 wheel ABS or not.
Obviously Explorers and Broncos with TTB had it, you may have to adapt it from a Dana 44 application.

I'm still going to read that article anyway, just to learn some more... can't hurt.

I'm also going to make a couple calls and emails to some friends to see if they know anything...


I made a couple screen grabs from one of the agile videos that shows the way the ends of the axle beams have been boxed to accept coils. Also looks like there's a stud off the back of the boxed plate for a shock mount.

 

[justcuz]

I'm The drivers side beam looks like the reinforcement/boxed plate runs from the top of the beam over to the top of the pumpkin area creating a truss. His lower spring mounts are about even with the upper ball joint mount on the beam. This could be made with rectangular steel tubing and reinforce the spring seat area.
I bet you could mount the radius arms to the back of the beam with a flat reinforced bracket. Install the bolts from the inside before you stick the axles in.
Looks like the steering dampener bracket is welded directly to the pitman arm on one end.

Basically the article says you can use Dana 50/60 spindles, hubs and rotors on Dodge knuckles or Ford Dana 60 knuckles, spindles, hubs, rotors and calipers on a Dodge unit bearing front axle. You have to use Dana 60 stub axles on any of these conversions. Thats the jist of it. There are tons of repetitive questions because people did not read, but the above pretty much sums it up.
Personally there is no reason to ruin a complete HP Dana 60 to do this, especially given their availability, so most people just use the Dana 50 TTB spindles, hubs and rotors with the Dodge calipers.
I may be wrong about the rotors, maybe they are installing Dodge rotors on Ford hubs, can't remember for sure.

 

[philos]

I think the DS extends so far because it's acting as a bump-stop with the factory one mounted on the frame rails. Could be a truss too.

And, it sounds like using Dodge rotors may be an avenue to explore once I get some parts in front of me.

 

[justcuz]

I think your better off with all Ford TTB parts. The rotors, hubs and calipers are the same for the F250/350. The only difference in the spindle is the backside where it fits into the knuckle.
All you want to do is put ABS on that TTB. I am suggesting a Dana 44 style ABS sensor and reluctor wheel installed on the 50 TTB hub, knuckle and spindle assembly. Do a search for Dana 44 TTB ABS, you see what I am describing.
All Ford, a little machine work, done. The Dodge rotors I think are thinner than the Fords, no advantage there. The Ford dual piston calipers are definitely a better choice.

Another alternative is to check into Dana 44 HD TTB parts like the knuckle, spindle and hub and see how they compare to the 50.
Some 44 ABS parts may swap over.

 

[IdaSHO]

L
I think the last Dana 50 TTB was made in 1996 and I am not sure if the F250 had 4 wheel ABS or not.
Obviously Explorers and Broncos with TTB had it, you may have to adapt it from a Dana 44 application.

F250 TTB D50 did not have ABS.

All F250s and F350s of similar vintage only had rear ABS.

 

[philos]

Correct, no ABS on the TTB Dana 50, which is why we're trying to figure out what parts to use to make it compatible with 4-wheel ABS systems like the one in my E350...

 

[BajaSportsmobile]

Correct, no ABS on the TTB Dana 50, which is why we're trying to figure out what parts to use to make it compatible with 4-wheel ABS systems like the one in my E350...

Here is a simple thought - Use your E350 parts, they must be working now...

 

[Pinnacle Campers]

Here is a simple thought - Use your E350 parts, they must be working now...

If the rumor mill is true and you are retiring why not just open source the conversion?
(Or maybe this thread is the last "hurrah"?)

 

[philos]

Here is a simple thought - Use your E350 parts, they must be working now...

Is that a coded way of saying that the tone ring on my van's rotors will work on the Dana 50 TTB rotor? I'm a little slow on the uptake some days... And I still don't have an axle in my grubby paws.



Sent via flux capacitor

 

[BajaSportsmobile]

If the rumor mill is true and you are retiring why not just open source the conversion?
(Or maybe this thread is the last "hurrah"?)

No, I am not retiring - I did that a few years ago. Agile has been a labor of love and a hobby that grew way beyond what I wanted to do and the reality is I am just holding it back. We have a huge backlog of 4x4 conversions and RIP Kits. We will be making some major changes and announcements in the next month, to include new blood and new products. I'm excited to expand platforms and products... In the mean time, today was an awesome day at the beach and the sunset right this moment is amazing!