This bother anyone in SoCal?

Ursidae69

Traveller
This article was published today. I thought it was pretty interesting. Beaches are closed regularly in San Diego due to sewage from TJ, does that make the news there? Is it a big issue? I would think it would be. Not much anyone can do about this I guess.



Link to Article

A Big Concrete Toilet

By SCOTT LEWIS
Thursday, Jan. 26, 2006

Last week, Los Angeles was throwing a fit about a 2 million-gallon sewage spill. The newspapers ran wild. Politicians demanded investigations into how it could have happened. It was a real pee-down-your-leg moment for our northern neighbors.

Wimps.

Two million gallons? C'mon.

San Diego and Tijuana know how to do sewage pollution. Ours come in rivers, not just occasional spills. It's uncontrollable, unimaginably stank and the rivers of sewage have in them a lot more feces than L.A.'s measly 2 million gallons.

Serge Dedina, the executive director of Wildcoast -- a group of conservationists -- said that a gauge that monitors the Tijuana River recorded 5 million gallons passing by every night last week.

And most of what flows in the Tijuana River is raw, disgusting sewage. These 5 million-gallon bursts came down the river only during the nights last week, although the concrete river bed is supposed to flow only after rainstorms.

I don't remember it raining last week.

If it had, it would have been worse. Last year, the Tijuana River flowed at about 600 million gallons a day after heavy rains drenched the region. Rainwater overwhelms Tijuana's faltering sewage infrastructure and it's not fair to call what happens after that a "sewage spill."

It's just a plain old river of feces. And it drains right into the Pacific Ocean, just off Imperial Beach.

A colleague and I toured the concrete Tijuana River and the estuary behind it the other day. It was a smelly experience. It was something few San Diegans had probably ever done. But everyone who submerges themselves in the ocean at one time or another should take a stroll through this garbage-strewn basin.

The day we were there, the concrete river was completely dry but for a tiny stream of water that mangy dogs were easily able to hop over.

Even that mere creek wasn't supposed to be there, Dedina said.

Aside from the sewage, there's some really blow-your-mind things to look at when you stare down that concrete river bed.

The most prominent, of course, is the yellow line that marks the border between the United States and Mexico. While a fence highlights most of that incredibly significant geopolitical demarcation in surrounding areas, a fence obviously can't continue across the river. So there's a big gaping view into Mexico.

It's a startling scene. The packs of dogs look through the strewn litter. People wander on the Mexican side of the line looking through it, too. They casually stroll back and forth a few feet across the line. A border patrol SUV stares down, making sure nobody strays far enough over the line that they're really in the United States.

But the people who walk up and down the yellow line either don't care about the significance of the river. While the yellow line is supposed to mean so much, here at least, it means nothing. Crossing the border involves much more than what they're doing.

And, after all, they're hanging around -- some living almost in -- the largest toilet in the world. They probably don't much care what anyone thinks about them stepping a few feet over the border here and there.

Only a few yards away is a Polo outlet store. And a Starbucks. And a Neiman Marcus and Nike outlet, as well. Banana Republic and Gap, too.

The concrete river bed, while protecting Tijuana from flooding, and allowing more areas of the sprawling Mexican city to develop, also acts as a giant hypodermic needle injecting the ocean with the sewage and other chemical compounds without wasting a drop -- and at a rate that would make the Angelinos declare a state of emergency every week.

One step ahead of them again, the San Diego City Council does officially declare a state of emergency routinely because of the sewage flowing down the Tijuana River. But the council doesn't talk about it and so, while official, the regular resolutions merely sit as words on the agendas.

It's hard to get fired up about an intractable problem that many people over many years have been trying to solve.

But maybe if Los Angeles could teach us how, exactly, they were able to work themselves into a frenzy about the 2 million-gallon "spill" they had the other day, we might be able to freak out enough to change some things quickly.

If the stank smell I took in last week ever wafts into the richer areas of San Diego County, that might actually happen sooner than we think. And maybe by then, I and others can learn enough about this problem to understand it, and then fix it.

Scott Lewis oversees Voice's commentary section. Please contact him directly at scott.lewis@voiceofsandiego.org with your thoughts, ideas, personal stories or tips.
 

awalter

Expedition Portal Team, Overland Certified OC0003
Another media frenzy.

Are there problems? Yes. Are they of the magnitude the article seems to project? No.

San Diego has sewage spills of there own that need to be addressed due to an aging infrastructure. Tijuana addresses the problem, but probably not on the scale we would like. The federal Government has addressed the problem but it's usually late & underfunded.(There is a sewage plant in no-mans land just west of the San Ysidro border crossing, federally funded). The beaches aren't closed due to TJ's spills any more often than for SD's spills.

The Tijuana River flows thru several areas before reaching the ocean, Tijuana River Valley Regional Park, Tijuana River National Estuarine Sanctuary, Border Field State Park & finally Tijuana Slough National Wildlife Refuge. The Tijuana River rarely if ever keeps folks from visiting these areas & they are worth visiting for the wildlife folks.

These issues do appear in our local media on a regular basis.
 

Ursidae69

Traveller
Al, thanks or the local perspective, I hoped you'd chime in. San Diego is one of my all time favorite cities and I follow news about the area from time to time. I could see me living there someday. I've read about the treatment plant in TJ being overwhelmed at times, especially during storm events. I hope things improve, but I'm happy to hear that they may not be as bad as reported.
 
S

Scenic WonderRunner

Guest
YES!..........It bothers me!

I grew up in Hawaii.............surfing and body surfing every chance I got! The ocean is a huge part of me! I love it!

In Hawaii, the ocean feels clean and smells clean. I moved to San Diego to go to College in 1973......at Point Loma. I began to surf here, off Point Loma at Sunset Cliffs. At various times, especially after a rain storm, we would get an itchy rash on our skin after surfing. This has increased through the years to the point where I just won't go out surfing in San Diego anymore. I save it for my visit's back to my home Hawaii.

The water in and around San Diego......looks dirty....smells dirty....and IS dirty as far as I am concerned! I just don't go out in it anymore.


EDIT.........I mentioned 1973 to show that it's NOT a new problem!!!!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

calamaridog

Expedition Leader
We have series water quality issues which have caused serious problems with the Federal gubment. The issue is much worse than simply blaming TJ for their filth, which, btw, is rather filthy:smileeek:

We have taken major steps to combat the problem and there is a massive education campaign ongoing within the cities and county.

Will it be enough to make quotas and avoid massive fines? Not likely.

The infrastructure improvements needed to meet Federal requirements will be measured in multiple billions of dollars.
 

blupaddler

Conspirator
Actually we are doing pretty good compared to the past. We have more frequent testing. Two new ways of posting, advisory and closure.

I work in and around the water. The only area of San Diego proper I try not go in is the very eastern areas of Mission Bay. With the run-off and poor circulation, it's not bad, just not good.

I have never gotten sick, minus a sinus infection or something, from the water here (knock on wood). But, I do know people who have. They also have been stupid and gone surfing after a big rain storm or when there are signs saying the beach is polluted. "Bro, but the surf is cranking!"


Our problem, as stated, lies with our city government. We are on the verge of declaring bankruptcy. Our sewer system is old and needs to be upgraded, and they are working on it...SLOWLY.


MY .02
 

Ursidae69

Traveller
This has been very interesting for me. I didn't realize that San Diego has a very outdated system as well and is not working quickly to correct the problem. With Federal dollars going to the Tijuana system to improve it, you'd think San Diego would be wanting in on that money too. Maybe they are already.

The old saying "Dilution is the Solution" comes to mind with this issue and sadly, that old saying is not correct.

I wonder what things will be like in 15 years?
 

calamaridog

Expedition Leader
Ursidae69 said:
I wonder what things will be like in 15 years?


Hopefully better. They are working on solutions, but like Rob said, the City is having serious $ problems. Thankfully, it's a regional problem and the solution involves other agencies as well. I don't know where the City will get the money for infrastructure replacement and repair but at least the other agencies have some cash.

The County has been very aggressive with their clean water education program. They labeled all the exterior drains at my complex to let us know what was sewer and what was storm drain. They educated employees about proper use of the drains.

Enforcement is being taught at the street/academy level, at least some. Even beat cops are getting into the action. A friend of mine charged a guy with dumping paint and oil into the storm runoff system recently.
 
S

Scenic WonderRunner

Guest
An older article..............but it tells of the problems.

When the winds and currents are just right...........it blows the crap back to my favorite Sunset Cliffs surf spot!

http://www.sddt.com/reports/2002/05/lawweekfri/tb.cfm
Law Week: Specialized Practice Areas
Environmental Law
Suing over sewage: The future of San Diego's coastal waters
By WILLIAM K. KOSKA and PAUL C. JOHNSON JR.
Bacalski, Byrne & Koska

May 02, 2002
Under the federal Clean Water Act, municipally owned treatment works, such as the Point Loma sewage treatment plant, must treat their influent to so-called secondary standards before they can discharge the treated water. The city of San Diego has been operating the Point Loma plant under a waiver of requirements for secondary treatment for several years, and recently applied for a second waiver.
The California Coastal Commission voted on April 8 not to support the city's application for a waiver, and urged that the city install secondary treatment capability, which the city estimates would cost hundreds of millions of dollars.

On April 10 the California Regional Water Quality Control Board issued an order to the city that requires a reduction in the amount of solid sewage that the city is permitted to discharge into the ocean from the Point Loma plant. The order was issued under the National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System, or NPDES, the program established by the Clean Water Act and run by the state of California. The previous permit allowed discharge of a higher amount of these "total suspended solids." The city actually discharges a much smaller amount of total suspended solids than the permit allows, but is concerned that the lower limit will make it more difficult to accommodate future growth.

The San Diego City Council voted on April 23 to appeal the Regional Board's order to the State Water Resources Control Board, also known as the State Board. The State Board may (1) find that the Regional Board acted properly; (2) order the Regional Board to change its action; (3) refer the matter to another state agency; or (4) take any action the Regional Board could have taken in the first instance.

If the State Board declines to change the Regional Board's order, the city may petition in Superior Court for a writ of mandate. Upon a finding that the State Board abused its discretion in reaching its decision, the court can order any appropriate relief.

Whatever the ultimate decision is, there may well come a time when the city exceeds the limits imposed under the Point Loma NPDES permit. If that happens, stand by for litigation.

Any number of potential plaintiffs exist: surfers, boaters, kelp harvesters, environmental advocacy groups, state or federal agencies; arguably, any interested citizen has standing to sue for violations of an NPDES permit.

Liability Theories

Depending on the severity of the violation, there are a number of theories of city liability.

* The Clean Water Act

The Clean Water Act allows citizen suits to be brought for any violation of an NPDES permit by any discharger. The citizen (who can be any individual or organization) merely has to show that the discharger is in current violation of its permit limits, and if the citizen suit is successful, the plaintiff may recover attorney fees.

* State Law Theories

Tort theories of liability against the city may, depending on the facts, include public and private nuisance, trespass, intentional misrepresentation, fraudulent concealment, negligence and negligence per se. Before bringing a tort claim against the city, a plaintiff would first have to file an administrative claim and have it denied either affirmatively or constructively.

An interesting twist on the availability of tort remedies has recently been established by the California Supreme Court in Hartwell v. Superior Court (2002) 27 Cal. 4th 256, which held that there is, generally, no Superior Court jurisdiction over tort suits against utilities that are regulated by the PUC. The only exception to that general rule is when the regulated utility has violated some standard under the federal or state Safe Drinking Water Act.

The Point Loma sewage treatment plant is not a regulated utility. Hartwell may, however, be expanded to have a significant effect on the local ocean waters. Population is expected to increase substantially over the next decade, with jobs projected to increase by almost 45,000 per year through the year 2010. This explosive growth will put extreme pressure on the providers of electricity and drinking water to find alternate sources.

One possible answer: the ocean.

Tidal energy is a proven source of electricity, and desalinization plants -- once prohibitively expensive -- are likely to be considered again for the purpose of supplying a source of water to supplement current water supplies. Any generating plants or desalinization plants that will draw on ocean resources will certainly fall within PUC jurisdiction, and the PUC has stringent environmental-protection requirements at present for the siting of utilities.

Koska and Johnson are attorneys at Bacalski, Byrne & Koska, an AV-rated litigation firm headquartered in San Diego.
 
S

Scenic WonderRunner

Guest
Heard on the news just this morning...........

They closed the beach at "Bird Rock" in La Jolla because of a sewage spill. A tree root broke a sewer line and the crap flowed right into the ocean!:rolleyes:
 

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