Thoughts on lockers and dual t-cases

[JSimmons]

Hi all,

So in the past few weeks I've been doing quite a bit of reading up on the various modifications that can be done to my 1st Gen 4Runner. For the most part, a large amount of information exists for how to setup a rockcrawler or mudbogger rig. Most of these types of rigs advocate doing a solid axle swap, putting in front and rear lockers, and installing dual transfer cases for super low gear ratios. These seem to be the "must have" modifications for those types of rigs.

But what about for expedition/overland types of rigs? Do you guys feel that it is necessary to ditch the IFS? It would seem to me that the IFS would provide a better ride at higher speeds, which I guess in theory, someone in an expedition rig would see more of. Is an expedition rig going to need super low gear ratios which could be provided by a dual t-case setup? Do you guys need huge amounts of flex offered by a solid axle?

I guess I am curious to know what the thoughts are on these modifications from the more experienced guys here on the forums. The thing that draws me to wanting to build an expedition type rig is the fact that it appears to have to do many things well, not just be the best at one thing. With that in mind, what seems to be a good equilibrium for drivetrain setup? Does it need to be lockered front and back with 4.88:1 gears and dual t-cases?

I ask this because as a newbie, and also as someone who can't just throw money at modifications whenever I feel like it, it would help to know what is going to be most beneficial at the earliest stage of modifications.

Hopefully, this made sense. I look forward to hearing everyone's thoughts on these topics.
:elkgrin:

 

[Rexsname]

Joel,

I have a 2001 Tacoma with some of the modifications you asked about. My truck came equipped with a rear e-locker and I added a Marlin Crawler dual transfer case system later. I do not have a front locking differential. I would not have installed the Marlin Crawler if I didn't win a significant portion of the components. I won the adapter at an AllPro event and my brother gave me the low range portion of a transfer case. Even with all of those freebies it was not cheap. It does make it very easy to drive the truck gently over difficult terrain. I think that a well thought out suspension, a good winch and some recovery gear would be a better use for your money.

Combining very very low range gears with a locked front differential makes the likelyhood of broken CV joints very high. I haven't broken one yet, but I only have 223,000 miles on it.

Long story short, there are plenty of wonderful places to go that don't require the stuff you describe. For me, If I had it to do over again....I'd have a Flip-pac and a fridge before I spent the money on some of the "cool" stuff.


REX

 

[ldivinag]

i'm coming from a rock crawling world, so i do have all of the above, except the solid axle up front.

what i do have up front is a long travel IFS. ARB in the rear and tru-trac up front.

what my dual cases allows me to do is go down steep hills in a very controlled and SLOW fashion...

 

[mosupernak]

Hey Joel. I'm a new guy on this forum as well, but considered the same questions you have for a while. I'm also interested to know what the overland veterans have to say as my truck will be more expedition then crawler.

 

[Mr. Leary]

A winch and heavy duty suspension and possibly a rear locker is all you should ever need. Gearing can make the truck more enjoyable to drive as it gets heavier.

With the money you would spend on the dual cases, you could buy enough recovery gear to get you through just about anything. Just sayin'... as I contemplate the Marlin Crawler "Lefty" t-case. :coffeedrink:

The reality is... most of the time you are out adeventuring, you will be on pavement or graded dirt roads. So by all means, leave it road friendly, wherever your choice of modifications leads you.

 

[alexrex20]

if you're more into expo and less into wheeling, the dual lockers and solid front axle and dual tcases are a complete waste of money. put the money towards your expo/camping equipment like an adventure trailer or a RTT, your fridge, stove, etc.

 

[BIGdaddy]

if the op has the cash to spend, i'd say its well spent on dual cases. Its a transparent mod that attracts no unwanted attention and will be completely transparent until its needed.

How cool to have that type of capability at his fingertips. and there's always the "tread lightly" aspect of a double low crawl ratio. very controllable traction.

I'd say a rear locker and IFS are perfectly suited to lots of kinds of wheeling, though, and will go a long ways towards keeping you moving.

 

[Skim]

I agree it depends on what trails you'd like to complete.

For me, I really like the control my dual cases provide. In the long run it saves parts. Typically parts dont break unless you are already in a tough situation trying to get out. The super low gearing allows you to just drop into a lower t-case gear and crawl right out, breakage free.

If you are planning to run trails down to Baja for example then you dont need the duals.

 

[JSimmons]

Thanks for the responses all.

I do see myself doing more expo type stuff, but I also want the rig to be able to do some other activities fairly well. Rockcrawling is probably the other type of wheeling I would do in addition to expo.

I was thinking of the OME suspension and perhaps an Aussie locker (front or rear or both). Possibly re-gearing to 4.88 in the anticipation of carrying heavier loads. Most likely I'll be sticking with the factory 31.50 x 10.50 tires.
:sombrero:

 

[brained]

I could see dual cases being more expedition useful if you could get the equivalent of a 1.5 to 1 and a 2.5/3 to 1 instead of the usual 2 to 1 and 4 to 1.

 

[JSimmons]

Don't plan on doing anything "fast" like Baja.

Preventing parts from breaking is a good argument to go for dual cases. Having greater control at low speeds is as well. Are they really that expensive? It seems like you only need to get the reduction box from a stock t-case. Is it the cost of installation (in terms of $$ or headaches)?

I was reading on the Aussie locker website that they recommend putting a locker in the front diff for IFS if you only have one locker. ??? Most of you guys have recommended locking the rear. What would be the benefit of only locking the front? I can see the additional benefits of locking the rear (such as for towing).

 

[Bains98]

well I have a front Aussie locker and a rear e-locker and twin cases with 4:7 gearing and I love it. I use my front case to go into 2 Lo and hit the rear locker and I can get thru most places. If it gets real hairy I can put the back case in 4 lo and take my foot off the gas and the truck will climb walls just on idle. You have a lot of gearing options with twins.. And as for my front and rear lockers..Id rather have them and not need them than not have them and need them..plus with my winch..I have yet to get stuck...*knock on wood* and my truck is a daily driver and I travel a lot of places with it. You don't know any of that stuff is in the truck until you engage it..

 

[austintaco]

I bought my 84 locked and re geared with a 4.7 low range. The previous owner built it for rock crawling, but with the intent to drive it to the destination opposed to towing it. I went on a few rock krawling trips and it worked well, too well, to the point that it got me into places that had me within an inch of major carnage along the side of a rock.
I realized that I lucked out having only a few minor dents and scratches, and that's when I decided that I am a rock krawlin enthusiast, but expedition type stuff is more for me.

You are absolutely right about the IFS. I had an 89 SR5 4runner before buying my 84 back. If I had kept the 89, my plans were to do a BJ spacer, crank the torsion bars a bit, some armor, re gear, lock the rear, a small body lift, and 33's or 255/85/16's.
That's a mild build, but it would still cost $$$. However, it would have been a very solid ride.

As far the SA vs IFS debate. I needed the SA for some of the stuff I did with my 4runner before, but for my future plans, its overkill. Don't do a SAS. Like someone else said, save the money for other stuff.

Oh, yeah, one more point. its not just the solid axle up front. Even a solid axle needs longfields up front or you will break a birfield eventually. once again...$$$

 

[ntsqd]

From 15+ years of observation the formula for Birfield carnage is:
Tires over 33" tall
Tires over 10.50" wide
Re-geared axles
Low T/C gears

Any one of those and the Birfs are suspect. Any two and they're done - it just hasn't happened yet. Maybe.

For overlanding I'd go with either a TruTrac or an ARB in the rear. I have a rear Detroit. They're not that civilized. Were I not Lazy and cheep the front Lockrite would get replaced with a TruTrac and the front to rear swap would happen. The FJ60 is getting dual ARB's courtesy of last year's tax return.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

My opinion is a Toyota e-locker in the rear is the best bang for buck. It is still a selectable locker, also gets you to use the heavier duty V6 gears. It is not a difficult install other than the wiring that takes an hour or two. There are excellent directions on www.4x4wire.com.

For the rest, I have done some expeditioning (not "expo" - expo is a web site not a thing) with my IFS setup and the biggest issue I feel is the steering components. If you upgrade your steering bits and keep it at 32/33" tires then you are in better shape. This was where I found the weakness in IFS personally. I know the front shafts can break but it is the minority. After that I think the SAS starts to look for favorable. I am doing a setup using coil springs currently that will be smaller and I think work better than your standard leaf spring SAS and not much more difficult to install. I am also planning a doubler but because I am getting a deal. If it weren't for that I would keep a single t case, rear locker, and the SAS and call it quits. I will be on full size 33" tires.

This all is a lot of work and a lot of $$ and you have to value if it is really worth it to you, particularly on this truck and this era/value of truck. I do think a truck can be built for American wheeling/exploring and be completely reliable for expedition, but you also have to work a little harder for this and spend more money. Again, the question is if it is worth it. And I also recommend using a quality company like Marlin Crawler rather than Trail Gear which is cheap Chinese knockoff crap.

I hope it helps.