Tire size recommendation for lifted Tacoma? "Skinny" or "normal"?

[DaveInDenver]

I run 235/85R16 BFG KO2.



They get the job done. I have them mounted on standard 16x7 2nd gen spare steel wheels with the oval hole. My $0.02 is they are tucked a little too far in visually with the flares but it does help with thrown debris. I have a set of 3rd gen 4Runner 16x7 5-spoke wheels that I intend to use. These have about 3/4" less backspace. Haven't gotten around to it because I like the utilitarian steel wheels personally.

They have just kissed the mud flaps (which are 1/4" rubber, not stock plastic). No rubbing anywhere else. Plus I can fit chains on the front tires even with the massive stock backspacing. So that's a benefit to me.



I'm running about 2" or so of lift, FOX 2.5 IFP + King 650# coils in front, Dakar CS047 + an extra D29XL and FOX 2.0 IFP in the rear. I run Camburg ball joint upper arms and my most recent alignment numbers:

LF Camber: +0.4°
LF Caster: +1.6°
LF Toe: +0.03"

RF Camber: +0.4°
RF Caster: +1.6°
RF Toe: 0.03"

Total Toe: 0.06"
Steer Ahead: 0.00°

I usually ask them to maximize caster and shoot for zero toe and camber. I used a new shop who was highly recommended and did not give them any direction just to see what he could do.

It drives nice but is slightly twitchy as you'd expect with <2° of caster. OTOH the previous shop tried to accommodate my request and was able to get over 2° of caster but my tires haven't worn well, so I'm unsure of that bit of Internet logic (zero/zero/max caster). The Camburg arms I thought had more caster built in but apparently not so much.

As for the tire, they are a solid "meh". I've got about 35k on them and they won't go another winter and currently slip on wet pavement. I'm debating on another set now with a better alignment, but a good friend had a set of BFG KO2 235/85R16 and they wore poorly on his daily driver 4Runner, which only had stronger springs with slight lift (about 1/2") to accommodate more weight.

I'm not sure this tire in this size is a good match to mid size Toyotas. I've had many sets of BFG ATs (31x10.50, 30x9.50, 33x9.50, 33x10.50 but all 15") and they've all lasted better than these. They have, though, done all I can expect on the trails. They are a solid off road tire in my experience.

I run them at 40 psi usually on the road (chalk test) and around 20 to 25 psi or so typically off. They ride best in low-to-mid 30s but they want to cup the outer tread badly on my truck. One thing to mention is with 7" rim the 235/85R16 (KO2 anyway) exposed the rim lips aired down and they get pretty beat up in rocks.

So I'm dithering between 255/85R16 or 265/75R16 in BFG or sticking with 235/85 in another brand (likely Cooper). I want the 255/85 in my mind except that as it is the Tacoma is geared too tall off highway and I don't want any more overdrive. The 265/75 is attractive because I retain the same approximate diameter and that means I only need 4 tires (my spare is matched and unused). Running a 235/85R16 spare is real nice and low profile since I still have it under the bed.

Sorry I'm not much help.

 

[luthj]

For the surfaces you drive on, and your weight, the 235 would be superior. Especially aired down for the rough stuff, much smoother ride.

 

[ashooter]

Thanks for all the input, folks! I have pretty much decided to stick with the 235's, since I have been happy with that size on this truck, and on my FJ80 for the past 7-8 years.

If I can get 1deg higher caster out of an alignment (scheduled for next week), sounds like that will get rid of the slight "twitchy" feel. My current numbers are pretty close to what you posted @DaveInDenver with +1.8deg caster on the Rt side, and +1.6deg on the Lft. Not bad, but a lot of voices say upping those by a degree will make it better.

 

[luthj]

Tire pressure makes a big difference. I would start with the MFGs load tables. Then weight your front/rear axles. That will get you 90% of perfect, then adjust by personal preference. A lot of folks run too high or pressure on wide tires, and some run too low on narrow tires.

 

[DaveInDenver]

The tires are pretty narrow and the track width of a 2nd gen Tacoma is 63", so I find they are fairly eager to find wear patterns in the road which might be mistaken for alignment issues.

 

[roving1]

I'm not saying the Coopers are the best thing since sliced bread but I am saying that in some sizes or some batches BFG KO2's
AT are just garbage. In other vehicles their wear rate is just all over the map, some sizes on some vehicles OK then other sizes on other vehicles just complete crap, and it seems to have little to do with vehicle weight. Mine chunked out excessively and had such horrible wet pavement and snow traction after a couple of years I got rid of them. I swapped mine out for some random all season tires I had on extra wheels during one blizzard and could not believe how much better some half worn 5 year old all seasons were compared to the BFGs. I have ran the Coopers on all the same trails that chunked out the BFG's and much worse (Morrison Jeep Trail) and you have to scour the tires to even find a mark. Cant speak to the latest gen BFG's but for a good decade I think the AT's were on of the most over rated tires out there.

 

[ashooter]

After all of this discussion, doing HOURS of research online, and asking opinions of a couple of guys I know who have these tires, I ended up with a set of Michelin LTX A/T2 in size LT265/75R16. Went with the 265's mostly because it doesn't look like that tire is made in 235/85R16. Tread is more aggressive looking in person than it seems in photos online, but still looks like a street-biased "all terrain", similar in theory to the Yokohama G015. I still have the appointment in a few days to try to get the caster adjusted up to 2.5ish degrees, but have about 400 miles on the new tires and they ride nice on dry pavement and rocky gravel roads at 38psi. Might drop the pressure to 36psi, since it looks like the tread on the rear tires is not quite lying flat on the pavement at 38 with an empty truck bed.

 

[shade]

I still have the appointment in a few days to try to get the caster adjusted up to 2.5ish degrees

That's a great tyre. I gave it a lot of thought when I was shopping.

Make sure the shop will do what you want on the alignment before they start. Occasionally, a shop will refuse to use alignment numbers outside the OEM spec. You can do a chalk test to determine a good pressure to run. I hope this all gets your truck back to being more predictable on the road.

 

[nickw]

I am running 235/85R16 Cooper STMAXX. I very much like these tires but the size is absolutely perfect for a 1st gen Taco in my opinion. Especially with a 2.7 and 4:56 gears. From less unsprung weight, to less drag at highway speeds, to butter performance in rain at speed and some types of snow and sand where a skinnier tire is just better. I can pull 20 MPG at 70MPH loaded to the absolute max now. Something I could not do at all with wider tires that were literally worse in every aspect of in and off road performance (BFG AT's).

Twitchiness is more a function of brand new or worn old off road tires or bad alignment. Size isn't as big a deal although wider tires can act weird in rutted out asphalt.

To be fair my new ST's wandered at highway speeds for about the first 500 miles. Then have been super stable for 15K miles and driving all the way from MI to Mexico and back.
235/85R16 album
Vid driving

View attachment 523670

As a side note, the 235's are not always lighter than the 265's since 235's are generally always Load Range E while there are several 265's that can be had with less ply's and lighter weight. In the OP's case with the Yokos, the 265's can be had in "Standard Load" (SL) which weigh ~41 lbs while the only option for the 235's are Load Range E @ ~47 lbs.

 

[nickw]

1) Yes, part of that will be correct rims and pressure.

2) No, but screwy tread wear patterns are a Geolander specialty.

235/85R16s are a pretty industrial tire. And built for long service life in industrial settings.
265/75R16s are pretty boy tires. Priced and styled to get those with an ego. You will get a much shorter life.

The 235s often come with a mileage warranty.
The 265s will likely not.

Negative ghost rider.

I think what you are failing to grasp is the difference between Load Ranges. Load Range E tires have more ply's, but those sizes can be specced in that Load Range.

265/75R16 worked ok for this dude, but ****** does he know, right?

http://www.trucktrend.com/cool-trucks/163-0702-mercedes-benz-g-class

Great article here on Expo a few years back:

https://expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/tom-sheppard-and-his-g-wagen.34976/

 

[nickw]

After all of this discussion, doing HOURS of research online, and asking opinions of a couple of guys I know who have these tires, I ended up with a set of Michelin LTX A/T2 in size LT265/75R16. Went with the 265's mostly because it doesn't look like that tire is made in 235/85R16. Tread is more aggressive looking in person than it seems in photos online, but still looks like a street-biased "all terrain", similar in theory to the Yokohama G015. I still have the appointment in a few days to try to get the caster adjusted up to 2.5ish degrees, but have about 400 miles on the new tires and they ride nice on dry pavement and rocky gravel roads at 38psi. Might drop the pressure to 36psi, since it looks like the tread on the rear tires is not quite lying flat on the pavement at 38 with an empty truck bed.

Looks great and great size tire. I used that size on my old Tacoma for years, never let me down!

 

[ashooter]

UPDATE:

Well, you guys were right... They could not get the caster higher than 2.0 with the factory upper control arms without throwing the camber way out of whack. However, they DID get L & R side caster up to +2.0 and the truck does handle noticeably better, based on the 120 mile trip home from the alignment shop.

These new LTX A/T 2 tires are smooth riding, relatively quiet (slight buzz with the windows down at low speed), and work fine on rocky gravel roads so far. They do pick up and throw some small gravel, though. The Toyo MT's I had a few years ago threw ROCKS, so I would hear "thunk thunk"... With these I hear "tick tick".

I haven't driven on anything too rough, but that's not really what this truck us used for - I have "Old Suzy", my '92 Land Cruiser, for tougher duty. This tire should be good for a long-life, primarily highway tire that runs a few hundred miles per year on rocky gravel roads... probably would hold up to rougher use than I'll likely give them. Compared to the Yokohama Geolandar AT G015 I had on the truck before, these lean heavier toward off-pavement than the Yokos did... 265/75 size doesn't feel a bit different behind the steering wheel, compared to the 235/85.

pskhaat's Michelin LTX post really caught my eye, since it is directly relevant to what I want out of the tires I put on this Tacoma, and it sounds like he's worked his LTX's harder than I'd be likely to - https://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/perfect-off-highway-tire-ltx-what.206567/

 

[DaveInDenver]

Load range E is rated as 10 ply but they actually have much fewer. The ply rating goes back to cotton ply tires and doesn't really mean anything now. Hasn't really since tires went to nylon plies and now steel belted radials. These days, just for an example, a BFG KO2 235/85R16 in range E uses 3 polyester body plies, the Goodyear Wrangler Duratrac 235/85R16 uses 2.

 

[shade]

From what I recall from pouring over spec sheets, three actual plies seems to be common for LT tyres with heavier construction.

 

[rayra]

OP's profile says 'west of the pecos', so put me down for 'wider tire is better'. You'll want greater flotation in our dirt and sands in the west and the ability to air down quite a bit when needed. If you were in mud and icy slush I'd say narrower so you can cut down to terra firma.

I've got 265/75-17 Geolanders on my Sub and I like them well enough I bought them again. Noise is minimal, traction is good, durability is good. And I'm not getting any funky wear. Then again I've been steadily refreshing and improving my suspension and steering parts ever since I bought it used with 114k mi on it. Everything has been replaced or upgraded now, like or better than new, and the ride is real nice.