To build or to rebuild... that is the question

[Joellivin]

I have a little money in my pocket and I am desperately craving some adventure and a small adventure rig to go on the back of my truck.
F150 6.5 ft bed.

I really really want something like this

Project M Topper

The Project M is the newest camper from Four Wheel Campers is the perfect pop up truck topper for the minimalist adventurer.

fourwheelcampers.com

I cant afford to buy it new. So I was thinking of making it. Taking a craigslist 100 dollar truck shell and stripping the windows and back hatch off of it. Then making a frame out of steel and basically recreating a four wheel camper project M. I like the fact that while not using it as a camper its alot of space and can be used just like a truck topper. I like that its lighter because it attaches to the rails. I would create modular systems to go into it when its time to camp, so think like a paletized kitchen that can slide into it, a water system for outside shower hookup, a cot or bunk that converts to a couch. All stuff that can be removed and put in the garage when not in use. Id also line the bed with insulation and carpet.

Just when I was really close to committing to this build I saw an old (maybe mid to late 80s) four wheel camper grandby for sale that is very affordable. Supposedly its in ok shape, the heater doesnt work (not a big deal to replace), and supposedly the canvas is in good shape (this would be the big thing for me, I do not feel like trying to replace material). It would have some downfalls, I would have to modify it to fit my truck as its a bit wider than my wheel wells. I would probably basically fully gut it, use the aluminum frame, add new skin, redo entire interior ect. would be alot of work. Or... I use parts out of it

Option #1 buy old used grandby and renovate
PROS:
-can be used now before even starting a major remodel of it (assuming theres an easy solution to narrow the tub width)
-Probably better insulated
-all appliances ect are in place
-a bit cheaper than creating from scratch
-aluminum frame (could be a pro or con, i dont have ways to weld aluminum so if its all good then im assuming pro, if broken welds then big con)
CONS:
-The length is off and would mean leaving the tailgate down, this kind of sucks, no backup camera functionality ect.
-the modifications needed would be relatively significant (need to narrow bottom foot area by I think 4 inches).
-Transporting bikes (which we do a lot) would require a very long hitch mount so just more stuff flopping around behind the truck, or a roof mount which is not the easiest to pull them on and off of.
-while camper is on it cannot be used as a truck.

Option #2 buy a camper shell, use windows and back hatch to make a project M knockoff out of steel frame
PROS:
-would fit truck exactly
-would be able to unload it when not used as a camper and use the truck as a ...truck
-can throw bikes in, even while using as a camper.
-would be lighter overall, especially when not being used as a camper, but as a shell
-more configurable space.
-Would be built beefy
CONS:
-would need to figure out the lift and canvas walls (this is a huge con)
-would take longer to be ready to go adventure
-would cost a little more
-would need to buy appliances like heater, water heater, pump ect.

Option #3 buy the Four Wheel Camper and just yank parts off including appliances, roof, canvas, lift mechanism cushions ect
PROS:
-Would not have to worry about recreating vinyl material (this ones huge)
-could use aluminum roof and lift mechanism, would be light weight and easier to install
-could reuse some appliances (would depend on whats all still good)
-recover cushions to reuse and save money
-Could use for a bit as is before ready to tear down (assuming theres an easy solution to narrow the tub width)
-All pros of option 2 apply
CONS:
-alot of trash to deal with after gutting camper
-Seems a big waste of a four wheel camper (even though it wont fit in any modern truck), just kind of hurts to think of discarding so much of it
-would need to also buy an old truck topper for the rear hatch (this is not too bug a deal, ive seen them for about 100 bucks or less since fit wont matter)

Thoughts?
Need to decide asap.

 

[UHAULER]

If you can get an old grandby cheap you could do option 3. I would modify it so the cab over is extended rather than shorten the back. Cut off the bottom to make it sit on the rails.

 

[Joellivin]

If you can get an old grandby cheap you could do option 3. I would modify it so the cab over is extended rather than shorten the back. Cut off the bottom to make it sit on the rails.

i had thought of this, just heavily modifying the frame of the grandby, but the big problem is welding aluminum, I dont have a friend who can, I cant afford 50 bucks an hour shop time. So if i grabbed the grandby id use the roof, canvas and appliances, but frame would just be rebuilt out of steel to ensure it can hold the weight of extra length of cab over. I am no structural engineer so im not sure what it would take to get the aluminum frame to where it could support me and the wife but i do know that if i do steel it would be strong enough (probably over engineered).

edit: I do wonder if I could rivet more aluminum on to strengthen it and change the frame as needed then not worry about welding?

 

[phsycle]

Have you thought of just getting a regular shell with a RTT up top?

 

[UHAULER]

I would think angle brackets at the ends of aluminum tubing would be fine. It's a camper, not a plane, and planes are riveted. You would be moving the front wall back about 18" and making it bolt or clamp to the bed side rails.

 

[Joellivin]

Have you thought of just getting a regular shell with a RTT up top?

Yeah, definitely have but a huge part of our camping will be in winter so a heater is vital, We will also be doing yellowstone trips where they dont allow soft sides (not sure how legal a pop up would be since its high up and just a smaller area thats soft).
But the big thing is the heater and areas to fit kitchen ect.
not to mention the RTTs in my humble opinion are way way over priced. I can spend 1000 building something super durable and hardsided or I can buy a tent for 1500...

 

[Joellivin]

I would think angle brackets at the ends of aluminum tubing would be fine. It's a camper, not a plane, and planes are riveted. You would be moving the front wall back about 18" and making it bolt or clamp to the bed side rails.

Yeah, you are probably right. and honestly a vast majority of the strength will come from the skin, I plan on doing a thicker aluminum diamond plate skin riveted at least at the corners and super strong structural tape on each frame piece. so that shell would probably add a ton of strength.

 

[phsycle]

Yeah, definitely have but a huge part of our camping will be in winter so a heater is vital, We will also be doing yellowstone trips where they dont allow soft sides (not sure how legal a pop up would be since its high up and just a smaller area thats soft).
But the big thing is the heater and areas to fit kitchen ect.
not to mention the RTTs in my humble opinion are way way over priced. I can spend 1000 building something super durable and hardsided or I can buy a tent for 1500...

Few points:
* Yellowstone does allow soft sided campers. The only campground that restricts to hard-sided is Fishing Bridges RV Campground. https://www.nps.gov/yell/planyourvisit/campgrounds.htm
* Heater would be an issue with the FWC as well, no? Not sure what to tell you there, since Western Mountaineering sleeping bags has us almost sweating. Anyway, good discussion of heaters here: https://expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/official-test-results-five-ways-to-heat-a-tent.188602/
* Kitchen: People have some nifty setups with sliding drawers, fold out tables, etc. for a truck bed. Sounds like you're pretty handy, so I'm sure you'd be able to fab something up easy.

But I hear you on the RTT. I'm not a fan of going up and down the ladder. I prefer a ground tent myself.

 

[Joellivin]

Few points:
* Yellowstone does allow soft sided campers. The only campground that restricts to hard-sided is Fishing Bridges RV Campground. https://www.nps.gov/yell/planyourvisit/campgrounds.htm
* Heater would be an issue with the FWC as well, no? Not sure what to tell you there, since Western Mountaineering sleeping bags has us almost sweating. Anyway, good discussion of heaters here: https://expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/official-test-results-five-ways-to-heat-a-tent.188602/
* Kitchen: People have some nifty setups with sliding drawers, fold out tables, etc. for a truck bed. Sounds like you're pretty handy, so I'm sure you'd be able to fab something up easy.

But I hear you on the RTT. I'm not a fan of going up and down the ladder. I prefer a ground tent myself.

I feel like heating a hard side camper is just better,install a propane heater, pipe it in, vent it out, its safer and burns a ton less electricity.
the options for heating a tent just dont make me feel safe like heater buddy(this is key, i have a few kidos in there with me) or they burn alot of electricity (heated blankets) because we'd need at least 3 of them.
Plus there is just something about being able to sit in an area in the warmth and relax without having to climb into a thick sleeping bag. Yeah I know a great sleeping bag would work, ive slept in a snow cave during a -10 degree night, and for the occasional crazy adventure its cool to do so, but im looking for something we can hit the ski slopes with then post up in a parking lot if we need to and get a good nights sleep before hitting the slopes again. Or something to park at the base of a mountain the night before trying to summit a 14er early the next day... things like that.

 

[Joellivin]

Ok... So last night I bought this. Got it for a really good deal. The heater currently doesnt work, going to take some time before I can even look into that.
The sad news... This thing wont fit into my f150. (its pictured on the truck owned by the people I bought it from). The camper is too wide (and too long if we are getting technical). So, the renovations will begin sooner than I had hoped. I will make a new build thread when I figure out a solid plan of what I want to do.

So I am back to the decisions, do I modify this to a project M knock off, modifying the frame enough to hold more weight in the front and extend that bed out taking the length off the front behind the cab section then anchoring the thing to the bed rails of the truck like a truck topper. Id build a removable super thick carpet pack that insulates the truck bed inside.
This would be nice because it would shed all that floor pack weight as well as leave me a truck bed to use as a truck bed. I could also add different "modules" depending on what we will be doing, for example if its just me and my 13 year old going to park at the base of a 14er to wake up early and summit that bad boy then we can load it sparse, just the "kitchen module", dometic cooler, couch bed and go. OR if it will be me, my 15 and 13 year old we could load a "bunk module" or whatever. Point being it would be a blank canvas at the beginning of each adventure. I can see that biting me in the ass too though and having half a garage crowded with my camper modules when not in use.

But it would kind of suck because it obviously wouldnt be as nicely sealed as a fully contained unit with an RV door. And also any appliances or furniture would have to go in and out,

What would you do? When making that decision think the old military adage "lite lean and lethal" thats what im after. I want something that is versatile, stealth camp ability adventure rig. Not looking for a camper ill live in for weeks at a time. In fact within a year or so me and the wife will probably buy a traditional RV that will be used for the whole family on more traditional vacations, it will be more the park queen and im looking for this one to be the more out there option on weekends.

 

[1000arms]

Few points:
* Yellowstone does allow soft sided campers. The only campground that restricts to hard-sided is Fishing Bridges RV Campground. https://www.nps.gov/yell/planyourvisit/campgrounds.htm

It appears Fishing Bridge RV Park is closed for the summer of 2020 and might re-open in the fall of 2020. https://www.nps.gov/yell/planyourvisit/fishingbridgecg.htm

I know the OP picked up a soft-side, but I thought a heads-up to anyone else reading the thread might be useful.

My strong recommendation to anyone going to Yellowstone NP is to also visit Grand Teton NP (just south of Yellowstone NP).