To spot or not to spot

[Christophe Noel]

Is the earthmate app that comes with it any good?

Yes. It's a good app. You'll want it to get the best use out of the inReach. It's a hassle to type messages on the device itself, so pairing your phone to it simply makes messaging waaaay easier. It should be noted, the navigational features on the current inReach Explorer are rudimentary at best. I don't use them.

 

[mezmochill]

What arent you allowed to do?

 

[Crom]

I say get both!

I have spot Trace for tracking. Never missed a beat in 2 continuous years, connected to 5v. Used for asset tracking.

I'm considering getting in reach for two way communication.

Not too sure the Garmin buy out was a good thing for consumers.

We'll see!

 

[Crom]

Hah. Pockets aren't quite deep enough to justify two subscriptions to the respective services.

Nice build thread on TW, btw.

Thanks.

The product you linked to earlier is PLB. I would recommend that if emergency services is driving factor. I have one of those too bought in 2010, lives in my glove box, and if something really wrong, I'll activate that.

 

[Christophe Noel]

This unit seems like an interesting alternative: https://www.amazon.com/ACR-PLB-375-...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=DSS3C8T0K9GTJHZKP0T1

A couple things to point out. The subscription fees for both SPOT and Delorme are largely dictated by their satellite usage agreements, not their own business model. For SPOT, they use their own Globalstar network of satellites, which have been, well, less than optimal in years past. Delorme uses the far superior Iridium network of satellites. The subscription and usage fees are driven by the billions of dollars it costs to put those birds in space. So, it is what it is.

To your PLB link you provided. You need to understand what lies behind the button of these things. A "Personal Locator Beacon" PLB, broadcasts a 407mhrz rescue signal designed by the US and USSR for emergency purposes only. Those signals are bounced off weather and communication satellites fitted to use that signal. When you push the SOS button on a PLB, that signal goes to government emergency dispatch resources like the Coast Guard along shorelines and on the water, or to the Air Force inland. Rescue will come. But don't always expect it to be swift, or maybe even well organized. For one thing, they don't know crap about the emergency other than a squawking signal. I could go into detail, but PLB rescue protocols are pretty slow.

When you press the SOS button on a SPOT or inReach device, those signals go to a private emergency response center in Texas called GEOS. They make money saving your butt. They can't afford to screw it up. If you have a SPOT, they just know you have an SOS signal active and rescue resources might be dispatched rather slowly or ineffectively. If you have an inReach, they can open a 2-way dialogue to best address the rescue efforts.

For those reasons - the SPOT, and certainly the PLB, are not even close competitors to the rescue proficiency of the Iridium connected inReach.

But - I understand why people would want to save a few bucks. Not me, though.

 

[DaveInDenver]

A couple things to point out. The subscription fees for both SPOT and Delorme are largely dictated by their satellite usage agreements, not their own business model. For SPOT, they use their own Globalstar network of satellites, which have been, well, less than optimal in years past. Delorme uses the far superior Iridium network of satellites. The subscription and usage fees are driven by the billions of dollars it costs to put those birds in space. So, it is what it is.

That constellation analysis is somewhat backwards. Iridium is facing more potential issues than Globalstar. Iridium needs to get all their NEXT birds up, their constellation is old and hasn't been really maintained since before their bankruptcy. Their most recent gen 1 launch was 6/2002 (Iridium 97 and 98) and those birds have a life expectancy of 15 years.

They got the first 10 NEXT (their gen 2) off last month but the SpaceX failure last year bumped everything by a few months and it won't be at least another year or two before they get all 70 launched. And even that is an aggressive schedule and would probably require other payloads to be bumped, Thales will at least have to stay on production schedule (if not bring completions in) and SpaceX to step up launch frequency.

Just as recently as the middle of last year Iridium was without any spares and was down 2 satellites so their constellation was only 64 of a full 66. They are also under a 1/31/2018 FCC mandate to decommission their old constellation, so they need to get things done and will likely have a transitional constellation next year. Right now they only have the next 10 birds on the manifest for an April launch.

Globalstar's constellation is reasonably sound since they've been launching replacements regularly and Thales worked around the reaction wheel issues with their gen 2 (all launches since 2010 with Globalstar 73 and up have been gen 2). Their current weakness was the ground infrastructure and they've been working on that and are in OK shape. It's actually SPOT usage that pretty much saved Globalstar. Since 2013 they have a full complement of 48 satellites with 4 spares, which is their full constellation. Of those 24 are second generation.

To your PLB link you provided. You need to understand what lies behind the button of these things. A "Personal Locator Beacon" PLB, broadcasts a 407mhrz rescue signal designed by the US and USSR for emergency purposes only. Those signals are bounced off weather and communication satellites fitted to use that signal. When you push the SOS button on a PLB, that signal goes to government emergency dispatch resources like the Coast Guard along shorelines and on the water, or to the Air Force inland. Rescue will come. But don't always expect it to be swift, or maybe even well organized. For one thing, they don't know crap about the emergency other than a squawking signal. I could go into detail, but PLB rescue protocols are pretty slow.

When you press the SOS button on a SPOT or inReach device, those signals go to a private emergency response center in Texas called GEOS. They make money saving your butt. They can't afford to screw it up. If you have a SPOT, they just know you have an SOS signal active and rescue resources might be dispatched rather slowly or ineffectively. If you have an inReach, they can open a 2-way dialogue to best address the rescue efforts.

For those reasons - the SPOT, and certainly the PLB, are not even close competitors to the rescue proficiency of the Iridium connected inReach.

But - I understand why people would want to save a few bucks. Not me, though.

I feel that the common link of GEOS is the weak link in the chain. To me neither Iridium or Globalstar is inherently more reliable. Yes, Iridium has global coverage but Globalstar never claimed 100% Earth coverage so compare reliability of overlapping regions and my $0.02 is neither is going to be hand's down always better. Both are LEO and Globalstar sits almost twice the altitude so passes are longer and coverage is wider, so their constellation at any one moment in time will have 1 or 2 more satellites in view than Iridium.

My assessment on selecting SPOT over InReach was based on cost and features to augment a SARSAT PLB (which is really in my view an SOS). I chose SPOT because I didn't feel the two-way messaging and larger device was necessary to me. I don't travel globally or in regions that have zero cell phone coverage for weeks. Both are IMO gadget toys. I don't want to trust the SHTF ripcord device to be anything that may be out of power, broken or lost such as is possible with anything like a SPOT/InReach/GPS that you're using all the time.

I do see the utility of two-way texting but I don't feel it's really a substitute for actual two-way communication. SPOT X is supposed to have this, so we'll see what they come up with, but I'm still considering a used sat phone with pre-paid service as an alternative to the PLB/cell phone/mobile radio that I have now. I know that activating a PLB is like going from zero to 11, which is probably overkill for a mountain extraction for a broken leg or something. But I simply don't trust the SPOT/InReach way to be reliable enough alone.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Awesome info, Christophe Noel and DaveInDenver; great details that I wasn't aware of. Not that the new info makes my decision any easier... hah

My $0.02 is that having a satellite tracker is a major step up in backcountry locating and communication, so you can't go wrong having anything.

SPOT does what it does and has for a while so it's pretty unsurprising at this point. When it was the only game to speak of it was cool.

InReach is more actively adding features so it's the one that is sexy at the moment. I admit 2-way communication is a /significant/ improvement.

But the question you are faced with is it worth it? It depends on your expectations and travels. With SPOT you need to have someone watching your tracking and more of a prepared schedule or plan so that if you deviate someone knows about it. With InReach you're more flexible to change without finding cell coverage and to real time pass along information.

I thought about that and I can't remember ever having been away from cell coverage for more than 3 or 4 days and during those periods had something happened changing my route would have put me in coverage in about a day.

It's ultimately an individual risk/benefit/value question.

 

[Crom]

To your PLB link you provided. You need to understand what lies behind the button of these things. A "Personal Locator Beacon" PLB, broadcasts a 407mhrz rescue signal designed by the US and USSR for emergency purposes only. Those signals are bounced off weather and communication satellites fitted to use that signal. When you push the SOS button on a PLB, that signal goes to government emergency dispatch resources like the Coast Guard along shorelines and on the water, or to the Air Force inland. Rescue will come. But don't always expect it to be swift, or maybe even well organized. For one thing, they don't know crap about the emergency other than a squawking signal. I could go into detail, but PLB rescue protocols are pretty slow.

I'm going to correct your post a little bit. It's 406 MHz beacon. Most modern units transmit GPS coordinates, and have a local 121.5 MHz homing signal, locally generated for SAR staff on the ground.

It is flat out wrong as you suggested that "they don't know crap about emergency other than a squawking signal"

A PLB properly registered, is one of the safest easiest emergency tools you can own. Numerous stories of people being rescued within hours by helicopter.

And it's a simple affair to update the registration form with current travel plans or additional helpful information for SAR. For example, I include, my vehilce description, plate number, SPOT Trace hyperlink, travel plan, etc.

Also GEOS is a monitoring service. It is still SAR (government and government organized volunteers ) that comes to the aid of those in need.

 

[Kerensky97]

I liked going with the InReach because I like being able to send "Safe for the night" type texts to family members and not just having the "Emergency Option" that calls all the rescue people.

As for GPS mapping and tracking I have a separate GPS setup for that. The Inreach is just a messaging system and emergency option when outside of cell reception.

 

[DaveInDenver]

You get 4 messages with SPOT, checking in, custom, SOV (vehicle assistance) & SOS. You can customize each message and who it emails and/or texts but it has to be done online.

 

[Christophe Noel]

InReach is more actively adding features so it's the one that is sexy at the moment. I admit 2-way communication is a /significant/ improvement.

When I was on my 300 mile solo bikepacking trip in Iceland I was just plodding along and arrived at a HUGE river I had to cross. I started taking off my gear making ready for the crossing. My inReach pinged and it was a message from my wife 6,000 miles away, "Please be careful." I crossed the river, kept on pedaling and 20 minutes later got another message, "I see you made it..." A few days later I got another ping, "Do you know you're off your planned course?" No. I didn't She saved me from 30 miles of backtracking. (I'm a crap navigator).

Now that I have type 1 diabetes, and no inclination to not do what I do, the inReach is essential. And because I've been to 7 countries on four continents in just 18 months, having the extra ability to communicate to my wife, who worries as any good woman would, is priceless.

Great information about the satellite developments, Dave. Much appreciated.

 

[Christophe Noel]

I'm going to correct your post a little bit. It's 406 MHz beacon. Most modern units transmit GPS coordinates, and have a local 121.5 MHz homing signal, locally generated for SAR staff on the ground.

It is flat out wrong as you suggested that "they don't know crap about emergency other than a squawking signal"

Thanks for the correction on the frequency. Typing on my phone I must have fat-fingered that.

I still contend, the dispatch center doesn't know poop about your emergency. I spent 12 hours interviewing Air Force and Coast Guard response personnel and they're the ones who said they're shooting in the dark. When a signal is received, the first thing they do is immediately call registered emergency contacts to ensure the registered user isn't at home on his couch, but his buddy who borrowed the unit isn't stuck in a tree somewhere. So they said they go through a series of phone calls, many not very fruitful, before dispatching the rescue resources in the area, which as you said, is GPS located of course.

But - they don't know anything at all about the nature of the emergency because they can't communicate with the peeps who poked the button. All four of the service people I spoke to said two-way communication would be a huge game changer and radically impact how they, and the eventual response teams, would address the emergency.

For me, given how I travel, and rather serious medical implications I have, I have to have two-way comms. Can't think of a single reason why I would not use that resource if its available.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I think your criteria and situation make a lot of sense Christophe, no argument can be made otherwise. I think I mentioned that region and type of travel are important factors. Beyond 70 degrees and very remote places definitely favor Iridium & two way options.

I can only add that one way PLBs have been the standard for pilots and mariners for years and if there's one lesson it's to have a plan with informed and up to date contacts. The USAF & USCG need to know what's up and have a logical flow. Don't give them garbage to work with, they're sharp enough dudes to figure it out.

 

[bhguy]

Plb's have been used as there were no other options. Given how many messages ive sent on my spot that showed they went through but didnt prove that getting a real responce is imperative. One of my preset messages was im stuck send a tow ...my wife had a detailed map of my route and i was only to be out of cell service for 5 or so hours. I sent the message as i blew 2 tires and was high centered and the message said it went through (flashing green) i waited for hours and the next a.m. my wife came wheeling in with a buddy and no tow. She thought i mist have had a huntinh accident as my footsteps were not moving but i didnt send any messages.......

 

[Crom]

Thanks for the correction on the frequency. Typing on my phone I must have fat-fingered that.

I still contend, the dispatch center doesn't know poop about your emergency. I spent 12 hours interviewing Air Force and Coast Guard response personnel and they're the ones who said they're shooting in the dark. When a signal is received, the first thing they do is immediately call registered emergency contacts to ensure the registered user isn't at home on his couch, but his buddy who borrowed the unit isn't stuck in a tree somewhere. So they said they go through a series of phone calls, many not very fruitful, before dispatching the rescue resources in the area, which as you said, is GPS located of course.

But - they don't know anything at all about the nature of the emergency because they can't communicate with the peeps who poked the button. All four of the service people I spoke to said two-way communication would be a huge game changer and radically impact how they, and the eventual response teams, would address the emergency.

For me, given how I travel, and rather serious medical implications I have, I have to have two-way comms. Can't think of a single reason why I would not use that resource if its available.

Personal interviews notwithstanding, the number of succesful rescues from PLB's stand on their own merits. Anyone who takes the time to research it can clearly see that for themselves.

The advantage of the PLB is that it has one and only one job to do, and it does it very well. The batteries last 7 years shelf life, no subscription required, no maintenance. Just works!

And don't get me wrong, two way communication is nice if that's what you want. I personally don't need that, I travel to get away and enjoy nature, the psychological effect of being intentionally disconnected is highly valued.

I think two way communication is ideal for emergency responders, I see the value there.

In the end, for me, the fundamental fact remains, it's not necessary. With PLB the operator can announce to authorities that emergency help is needed.

I'm reasonably sure you know this.

I really only responded because I thought you were unfairly mischaracterizing the tool.

Cheers!