Toyo M-55

[SOAZ]

Wow! I'm amazed at those prices Jim. That M55 tire is a pricey little sucker. Thanks for the link. Wherever I buy I'm going to get the road hazard thing too which adds to the price.

ashooter,
I think you are right. Its a balancing act. For my daily work I really need something that has tread on the sidewall like the MT for airing down. (So I'm not riding on the smooth sidewall which was the prob with my coopers)

For the long road/offroad trip I am starting to plan for later this year I want a nice riding highway tire that mild.

Looks like two different tires are best for this, but when you can only choose one the toyo MT seems the way to go.

I spoke to Flyingwil as well and he echo's you statements about the Toyo MT's as well. Quiet, great riding, great grip offroad.

 

[jsmoriss]

I run Toyo MTs in the summer, and Toyo M55s in the winter (hand-siped and studded). Here's my take on the differences between the two.

- Off-road, the MT tread should work a bit better -- I haven't taken the M55s off-road yet (being a winter tire for me), so I can't compare them on the same trails. The sidebiters on the MTs should offer a degree of better sidewall protection, and added traction when deflated.

- They're both 10-ply (285/75R16), but the M55 has a thicker center section: 33/64 in the center vs 47/64 off-center. The MTs are 48/64 center and off-center.

- The MTs are just adequate in the rain, so I have to be careful not to hydroplane in the rain when speeding along. In comparison, the M55s feel more planted in wet conditions -- I expect the lug design helps evacuate water more quickly than the MTs.

- In slushy and icy conditions, the M55s win hands-down. The MTs are dangerous on ice, although they do fairly well in snow (pretty much any mud tire does well in snow). I _did_ hand-sipe my M55s and have them studded, so that probably helps a bit too.

- The M55s are very popular with the pickup / truck owners up north in the oil and forest industry. They're know for being long lasting and having a tough sidewall. As a winter tire, I was a little worried their compound might be a little too hard, but they're working out great so far (second winter with them).

js.

 

[Redline]

I would argue that the Cooper ST tread is a mild mud tire, or an aggressive all-terrain, not a mild all-terrain. I'm using my STs as a street/winter tire with much satisfaction. The considerable void with good siping and a very thin tread face in 255/85 help it cut through snow and slush. I agree with you Tim, it's nice to have a street friendly tread on the many road miles we all travel, even just to and from a trail. But in my opinion the ST is a pretty loud tire.

I'm a big fan of the tough, Toyo tires, but just remember that much of that ruggedness is related to the overall stiffness of the tread and casing and the load-range-E Toyo MT & M55 will offer less flex and deformation at a given pressure than a very soft and flexible tire like the Cooper ST. Because of this I can/need to run lower pressures to make the tire ride & deform to my liking. If I like a typical D-range 255/85 @ 15-psi on certain terrain, I prefer it at 10-psi with a Toyo MT E-range.

There is little doubt in my mind that these Toyos are some of the most rugged radial light-truck tires out there. If I was most concerned about getting punctures or tire failures, the Toyo MT (or M55) would be one of my first choices. I don't know if they can take a shot from a .22LR, maybe a glancing blow . The Toyo MT has a distinct advantage over the M55 with its sidewall lugs. Letting lots of air out does put the sidewall lug on the ground instead of thin, smooth sidewall like on the STs. The MT also has a deeper, more open tread.

If wet/winter traction was a concern I would not hesitate to sipe the Toyo MT.




I'm not an efficiency freak... but I do hate to have MT's of any sort when most of my driving is on highways and fuel cost is something that I'm very conscious of. I like being able to save my horrible gas mileage for the offroad bits of a long road trip.
Anyone ever done a check of rolling resistance for tires? There is the obvious which applies to Mountain Bike tires. More aggressive = more effort to move them. Less aggressive = less effort to roll, and in some conditions less grip of course.

I sure wish I could find that $116 price on Cooper ST's I found way back. That would be a great tire for a long road trip of mixed off and offroad driving. The only problem is that I don't think those are up to day in and day out of aired down wheeling on these sharp rocks in AZ. (which is what my current days entail) My old ones got really beat up really fast.





Agree 100% but it's just difficult to make the trade off. With rare exceptions like the Cooper ST and BFG Commercial Traction (and maybe the BFG AT?) choosing a tire that does off-highway and on-highway very well is tough. And only one of these three comes in a 255/85. Considering the new BFG MT KM2 seems logical, it's also an load-range-E tire now like the Toyos, I have read it's quieter than the older tread KM. Some people love the BFGs but I have read plenty complain about poor balancing.

When it comes to pricing I think the Cooper STs were a screaming deal, just last year I paid about 137.00 per tire, but tires have gone up and I don't expect to buy many tires for less than $200.00 each for a long time.

My memory has faded but both the Toyo M55 and Cooper ST make noise. The STs are probably louder, but more than anything they have a different tone. The Cooper ST has a more traditional mud tire hum while the M55 has a higher pitched whine like a semi-truck highway tire.

 

[jim65wagon]

(I now offroad for a living basically. I put 100-200 offroad miles on per work day. My fellow employees use every type of tire under the sun and all get flats about once a week. I want to get as FEW as possible)

You know, I read this earlier, and it just dawned on me...and I find myself looking mildly green and envious of your need for a tough AT tire. That's a ton of seat time though! Do you even sit down at the supper table after a hard day in the office?

 

[UHAULER]

We put a set of M-55's on a 95 gmc 1/2 ton at work about 3 years ago. The truck is a spare so it has only been driven about 3-5,000 miles in that time. About 50% of our drving is on gravel roads so I wanted to try something different because we would eat up BFG AT,Pirelli scorpions, bridgestone at's,firestone at's in 10-15K miles. The guy at Les Schwab told me that when he was woking in the northwest he sold them mostly to loggers. They do have a distinct sound to them as mentioned above, similar to a big rig tire. I don't think they have as much traction as a true MT but if you want a tire that is tough and will hold up to a lot of off road miles I would consider them.

 

[SOAZ]

JS,
I'm surprised that the M55 is actually thicker in some respects. I guess not since its used in so many commercial instances. Those look REALLY good by the way on your Jeep. I was nearly sold on them just from your pic. I like the not for show looks of them. All business etc.

Redline,
I know what you mean. I guess the Cooper really is a super aggressive AT. I sometimes forget since I went from the ST's to some BFG Muds that were a co-workers. This meant that each one had a minimum of 3 plugs, plenty of chunks and not long after mounting were so out of balance that the car feels like its shaking apart. I long for the days of the relatively quiet Coopers. Its all about perspective I guess.
Those M55's would be great for a road trip or everyday tire. If I keep doing this offroading for work I think the Toyo MT or the BFG KM2 seems like the way to go.
I have a predisposed idea of the BFG's. They have always served me well. (excluding this set, but they were in bad shape when I bought them.) Also, being into desert racing for so long their support and reputation in the sport has given me a bit of the brand loyalty thing.
I really want to ignore that and just get the best tire, period. I enjoy having a truck that is built up less than others, but with good equipment. The underdog "sleeper" sort of thing. :sombrero:
Well, I'll decide soon, but I am going to try and get just a bit more out of these tires unless I find a killer deal.

Jim,
Its a great job, but the work is really sporadic and as you guessed REALLY tiring. We camp and so at the end of the day, the most relaxing I do is drink a couple cold ones while cooking on my camp stove before crawling into my tent.:chowtime: My bum gets sore from so much offroading. (some areas we do on bikes and then I get REALLY sore, but of course the bike is even more fun!) It sure has brought my skills to a new level for me on the bike and truck.

 

[jsmoriss]

JS,
I'm surprised that the M55 is actually thicker in some respects. I guess not since its used in so many commercial instances. Those look REALLY good by the way on your Jeep. I was nearly sold on them just from your pic. I like the not for show looks of them. All business etc.

Thanks.

Here's a shot of the M55s in 285/75R16. You can see the tread depth of the center lugs is a little shallower:

js.

 

[Redline]

The shallower tread (by about 5/32 when new) in the center of the tread is one of the features I don't care for on the M55s.

Though tires generally stay in proportion as they get wider, I like how there is more void overall on larger sizes.

jsmoriss,

Can you comment on the difference in off-road traction between the M55s and Toyo MTs, or have you not used the M55s off-highway enough because they are only for winter on-highway use?

Thanks.

Here's a shot of the M55s in 285/75R16. You can see the tread depth of the center lugs is a little shallower:

js.

 

[jsmoriss]

The shallower tread (by about 5/32 when new) in the center of the tread is one of the features I don't care for on the M55s.

Actually, this might be the reason why they feel more 'planted' than the MTs. Deeper voids also means 'squishier' lugs. I think the M55 attempts to reach a middle ground -- deep lugs on the outside for mud/snow traction, and shallower lugs in the center for better manners on pavement.

Can you comment on the difference in off-road traction between the M55s and Toyo MTs, or have you not used the M55s off-highway enough because they are only for winter on-highway use?

As I said earlier, the M55 is a winter tire for me, and I haven't run any trails with them _yet_. They're more for the city than highway for me -- I park on the street and don't shovel. The M55s with 2nd or 3rd in 4LO and lockers is just insane. I prefer the M55s on the highway too. They're a little noisier, but are more stable and eject water better than the Toyo MTs. The Toyo MTs aren't bad in wet weather, but I'd just call them adequate. Some MTs are worse, and some have a reputation for being downright dangerous in heavy rain.

js.

 

[Redline]

M55/MT noise

I'm glad you said this, I think it's a fact that the M55 is noisier/as noisy as the Toyo MT (I assume yours are a bit noisier because of the studs).

Most wouldn't think this from looking at the treads but the M55 is a pretty old design compared to the Toyo MT, and the MT is a tame traction tire.

snip.... I prefer the M55s on the highway too. They're a little noisier, but are more stable and eject water better than the Toyo MTs. The Toyo MTs aren't bad in wet weather, but I'd just call them adequate. Some MTs are worse, and some have a reputation for being downright dangerous in heavy rain.

js.

 

[ashooter]

Any new info on the M-55? I'll be tire shopping pretty soon and I'm almost at a toss-up between a set of M-55's and a set of Yokohama Y742S's. A set of five Yoko's will cost about $400 less than a set of five M-55's, so that's where I'm leaning, but...

yooohooo, Redline....





In case anybody's wondering, this is what the Yoko Y742S looks like. The drawback is that the largest size is 235/85R16.

 

[Mike S]

I bought a set (5) of M55's in 285/75/R16E about a year ago from Les Schwab. They have been running for about 18,000 miles on my F350. I am completely satisfied with the performance on road and off and there is little, if any, detectable wear. They work well in mud, snow, ice, and dry pavement. Have not run them in sand yet. I would buy them again, and may put a set on my Landcruiser when my Revos wear out.

Highway noise is more than I get with less aggressive AT type tires, but a lot less that the GY MTRs I have run in the past.

 

[Redline]

Take 2

Most of the comments below were written several weeks ago. I planned to post them with some new/updated photos but obviously I hadn’t done so yet. So with a quick edit here you go...

Toyo M55, A Second Opinion

Time to update of this thread with a second opinion. My first set of Toyo M55s were purchased and used for a few thousand miles about 5+ years ago, mostly on my ‘96 F350 Diesel. Since then I have tested many sets of tires and have a better foundation on which to critique tires.

Why?

Why try another set of Toyo M55s when I wasn't wild about them years ago? It boils down to the fact that there are few tires available in the unpopular though excellent LT255/85R16 size. I have tried most of them that are still available with the exception of the relatively new BFG KM2s. What is missing in this size is a nice all-around tread design, not a full mud tire and not a conservative all-season. Something like one of the new, high-void, commercial traction treads (Goodyear DuraTrac). My opinion is that the 255/85 Cooper S/T is closer to a mud tire than an all-terrain, and the Maxxis Bravo AT is really an all-season tire. Something with a void ratio similar or better than a BFG AT doesn't exist in a 255/85, with the possible exception being the Toyo M55. While I would like it if the M55s had more void, particularly on the outer lugs, the M55 is a very stout tire that should work well as an all-around overland and off-highway tire. It’s relatively tame for the highway miles, but tough and open enough when off-highway.

Past Toyo Trials

I've tried two sets of Toyo MT treads on my beloved AWD V8 4Runner, and they both pulled/drifted to the right. Since then I have made several trial and error adjustments to the alignment, adjusting for different tires that seemed to like different caster settings. I was willing to have custom alignment performed to get the M55s to track straight on this car if possible.

Knowing I could return the tires if they wouldn’t track straight on my 4Runner, several weeks ago I purchased a new set of Toyo M55 in LT255/85R16E.

Weights/Balance/Measurements

According to my bathroom scale these M55s weigh 58.5-lb each and are 87.0-lb mounted on an FJC TDR wheel.

Using the ‘static’ (single point) method of balance:

#1 1.75-oz.
#2 4.50
#3 4.50
#4 3.00

Often the single point, static method works better for a heavy tire. Using the dynamic method tire #1 wanted almost 10-ounces to balance, but only 1.75 using static!

Mounted on my 7.5” TRD wheels but not on the car, the tires were:
33 3/16” tall
7 3/4” tread width

Ride/Noise

I have complained in past posts that I didn’t like the noise of the M55. I guess that was years ago before I had so much saddle time with various M/T tires that are much louder. Though I didn’t run the M55s long enough to let them get louder, they were one of the quietest tires I have run in a long time (compared to: Maxxis Bighorns, Cooper S/T, Cepek FCII, BFG KM, Toyo MT, etc.) The noise they do make is a higher pitched whine as indicated in other posts, just not as loud or as objectionable as I remembered (when new). I would gladly run this tire for many (s)miles down the highway.

The M55s tracked and rode well. My concerns about the highway ride with a load-range-E tire and a 3-ply sidewall seemed unfounded. They were firmer but plenty comfortable at 32-psi.

The Dreaded Drift Right

My full-time 4WD 4Runner has proven finicky when it comes to tires and alignment settings. Some tires, like Maxxis Bighorns, track perfectly true with the standard/minimum amount of cross-caster, about 1/2-degree. Others seem to prefer almost a full degree (0.94) to track straight and not drift to the right (Cooper S/T & Cepek FCII).

The 4Runner had 0.75-dgrees of cross-caster when the M55s were mounted and they pulled right. The caster was decreased on the left to increase the cross-caster in an effort to make the M55s track true. We stopped at 2-degrees of cross-caster (far too much) and the M55s still drifted right. I can’t explain this or figure it out, but with two sets of Toyo MTs and one set of M55s the car simply won’t drive straight.

The alignment was returned to it’s 0.94 setting where it drives perfectly with FCII and Cooper S/Ts.

So the M55s were returned and I will not/can’t use them, but if they had not proven problematic I believe I would still be using them. With my limited time with them I would not discourage readers form buying this tire. As stated previously, my main reservation is the 5/32” deep ‘rock guard’ in the center of the tread which makes the center lugs that much shallower.

Redline

 

[Regcabguy]

M-55's

After BFG and Discount Tire deserted me on a vibration that started with the mounting and subsequently left with the dismounting of my 285-75-16 BFG KO's,I turned to Toyo. I ordered some 285-75-16 M-55's and my problems were over. E rated and with a huge increase over the BFG's,they rode softer and silky smooth on the freeway. Next to no weight to balance also. Express Tire in my area had never sold them and was impressed. There's a petition of 100 Dodge owners requesting at least a 285-75-17 M-55 for the newer Dodge owners on the Dodge Truck Resource forum. 'Ya never know...maybe Toyo will come through.

 

[Regcabguy]

Toyo pull.

The right pull especially from Toyos is corrected by a pressurized steering stabilizer mounted in the stock location on the Dodges. It induces a left drift which negates the pull. The aggressive tires are feeling the road crown on ours.