DaveInDenver
Middle Income Semi-Redneck
I personally use Toyota Red. I understood that it's an OAT with phosphates added. The phosphate serves the same purpose as the silicate in aftermarket stuff, to prevent dissilimiar metal corrosion. I've also heard that Toyota Red does not have 2-ethylhexanoic acid (2-EHA) in it, which most aftermarket OAT antifreezes do. Honda for one explicitly says not to use 2-EHA at all, while I don't think Toyota takes a stand other than not using it in their formula (which I guess means something afterall).
If you use regular green ethylene glycol, then all of that does not matter and things are different. You'd still need the silicate, but 2-EHA, OAT, etc. is all meaningless. The main thing is to NOT mix ethylene glycol and OAT antifreezes, that is bad. Otherwise, it's probably spliting hairs really.
The best argument that I can come up with is that Toyota is generally held up as the standard for longevity in their products. Why is that? The end result is the sum of the individual components, which includes using good coolant and lubes. All I can do is assume that what Toyota specifies and sells would be the correct fluid. That's despite what the dealers (who are not owned by Toyota) might do in their shops. In fact, if Toyota is paying them a price based on the red stuff and they (or any mechanic really) use generic green, they do it to make more money. That is not a real indicator of what we should do necessarily.
If you use regular green ethylene glycol, then all of that does not matter and things are different. You'd still need the silicate, but 2-EHA, OAT, etc. is all meaningless. The main thing is to NOT mix ethylene glycol and OAT antifreezes, that is bad. Otherwise, it's probably spliting hairs really.
The best argument that I can come up with is that Toyota is generally held up as the standard for longevity in their products. Why is that? The end result is the sum of the individual components, which includes using good coolant and lubes. All I can do is assume that what Toyota specifies and sells would be the correct fluid. That's despite what the dealers (who are not owned by Toyota) might do in their shops. In fact, if Toyota is paying them a price based on the red stuff and they (or any mechanic really) use generic green, they do it to make more money. That is not a real indicator of what we should do necessarily.
david despain
Adventurer
just curious how much is the toyoata red stuff at the dealership?.
S
Scenic WonderRunner
Guest
david despain said:
Thanks for all the input guys.....keep it coming!
David D. .....my local dealer wants $18.95 for the red and they claim thats the sale price. Normally $22.99 or something.
I've been over in Arizona for a week due to the passing of my God Father......so I have not had time to drive my truck. So it still has only 40 miles on the new engine.
I still have not decided what to do, Wil. I'm leaning toward just staying with the green. For one, so I don't have to worry about messing things up by trying to switch over to Red and possibly causing the brown gunk problem, etc.
But I do like the comment above which states....."it's like splitting hairs". I tend to agree with that statement. ...and since the Toyota Red was not even available when my truck was new, why should it be an issue.....unless it's such a good improvement over the old green that one must upgrade....or else!
But this NEW Long Life Green is a new and upgraded formula......so does this change the green argument some?
I went to my local Wally World and they have Green long life 5 year/150,000 mile coolant. They have it in Prestone.....Havoline....and Wal Mart Super Tech generic which is probably made by Prestone anyway. But then I saw the bottles of "Dex (red) Coolant" which makes this whole thing even more confusing.
Anyway.....
I will be happy with 150,000+ miles out of my engine (I would rather see 300,000 miles!):elkgrin: ......and when this engine is done, maybe by then I can put a diesel in.....and then the coolant question will come up once again!
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S
Scenic WonderRunner
Guest
Now Flushing the Radiator........
OK.....
I decided to with Green Long Life for now. It's the new formula with 5yr./150,000 rating. I'm using it because green was put in by Mr. Sucky....(well....more like puke yellow!!!).....and it's just easier to get done right now. Also.....my 1988 Toyota Factory Service Manual says to use the green....as they did not have the Toyota Red back in 1988.
Does anyone think I should use a bottle of radiator flush since there was once oil in the system....even though it's a new engine? Also....I flushed and let the engine warm up and I could not get the heater to blow hot.
Could left over oil in the system have plugged up the heater core somehow.....and if so.....would the radiator flush help clear the heater core out?
I took some pics.....I'll load them up in a few min.
In the pics.....I was testing different settings on my camera....and I am also showing my extended axle breathers.
Have you ever seen coolant this color>?!!! It looks like some dude had a bad night at a Frat Party!!!!!
PICS ......of.....a TotallyTropical 4Runner......Radiator Flush.....and axle Breather extensions.......
OK.....
I decided to with Green Long Life for now. It's the new formula with 5yr./150,000 rating. I'm using it because green was put in by Mr. Sucky....(well....more like puke yellow!!!).....and it's just easier to get done right now. Also.....my 1988 Toyota Factory Service Manual says to use the green....as they did not have the Toyota Red back in 1988.
Does anyone think I should use a bottle of radiator flush since there was once oil in the system....even though it's a new engine? Also....I flushed and let the engine warm up and I could not get the heater to blow hot.
Could left over oil in the system have plugged up the heater core somehow.....and if so.....would the radiator flush help clear the heater core out?
I took some pics.....I'll load them up in a few min.
In the pics.....I was testing different settings on my camera....and I am also showing my extended axle breathers.
Have you ever seen coolant this color>?!!! It looks like some dude had a bad night at a Frat Party!!!!!
PICS ......of.....a TotallyTropical 4Runner......Radiator Flush.....and axle Breather extensions.......
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S
Scenic WonderRunner
Guest
The good news is!.........
I had an appointment today at the CA. DMV to get a new month sticker that Mr. Sucky stole from my rear license plate!........and to get a temp reg. paper for my back window because there is no point in taking my sucky engine into a "test only" smog station....since it's very clear that Mr. Sucky messed up my entire engine!!!!!!!!!!!!
I got both things done really quick today! I like this new appoinment only DMV office thingy! I've never had a more pleasant experience in my life at a DMV office!!!!!!!!!! There were like...3 people there waiting their turn!...very kewl music playing!...all I could say was....WOW!........ CA. DMV is now the 2nd happiest place on earth! .....LOL
The lady looked at me kindly when I told her Mr. Sucky stole my April Sticker!.....She said....."Don't worry, I believe you"....! She didn't have to go out to my truck to prove my sticker was missing!
The CA. B.A.R. is beginning their investigation into Mr. Sucky's activities!!!!!!.....
I had an appointment today at the CA. DMV to get a new month sticker that Mr. Sucky stole from my rear license plate!........and to get a temp reg. paper for my back window because there is no point in taking my sucky engine into a "test only" smog station....since it's very clear that Mr. Sucky messed up my entire engine!!!!!!!!!!!!
I got both things done really quick today! I like this new appoinment only DMV office thingy! I've never had a more pleasant experience in my life at a DMV office!!!!!!!!!! There were like...3 people there waiting their turn!...very kewl music playing!...all I could say was....WOW!........ CA. DMV is now the 2nd happiest place on earth! .....LOL
The lady looked at me kindly when I told her Mr. Sucky stole my April Sticker!.....She said....."Don't worry, I believe you"....! She didn't have to go out to my truck to prove my sticker was missing!
The CA. B.A.R. is beginning their investigation into Mr. Sucky's activities!!!!!!.....
S
Scenic WonderRunner
Guest
Update on the "WonderRunner"..........
The CA. B.A.R. has completed their investigation of my new engine problems.
Conclusion: ......Mr. Sucky's Pretend Engine Rebuild Shop blew it again!
In fact...they found out that in Jan. '06 his license to be an engine repair shop had expired!
The probs:
Oil leaks everywhere.
Excessive Loud Noise coming from drivers side valve train.
Melted Tranny Kick Down Cable laid on header by Mr. Sucky! (cost $350 to replace, including engine diagnostic!)
Loud whining timing belt tensioners.
Extreamely LOW POWER ....like no compression (or like I've been defrauded with a 300,000 mile used engine painted real shiny!)
The B.A.R. contacted me yesterday and they told me the good news is that Mr. Sucky will fix the engine under warranty at no cost to me. The bad news is, Mr. Sucky will fix the engine under warranty at no cost to me!
Do I even dare take my truck back there again?
I could take it somewhere else for a whole new engine, out of my pocket and sue Mr. Sucky. But when the B.A.R. demanded payment for the license, Mr. Sucky said he had no checking account....so he handed the BAR inspector $250 cash! So even if I take him to small claims court....how do I get paid back?
I've NEVER been treated like this in 36 years of driving!!!!!.....so I have no experience in these kind of problems.
What would you do?
......thanks for reading!
.
.
She is just too nice to give up on!
The CA. B.A.R. has completed their investigation of my new engine problems.
Conclusion: ......Mr. Sucky's Pretend Engine Rebuild Shop blew it again!
In fact...they found out that in Jan. '06 his license to be an engine repair shop had expired!
The probs:
Oil leaks everywhere.
Excessive Loud Noise coming from drivers side valve train.
Melted Tranny Kick Down Cable laid on header by Mr. Sucky! (cost $350 to replace, including engine diagnostic!)
Loud whining timing belt tensioners.
Extreamely LOW POWER ....like no compression (or like I've been defrauded with a 300,000 mile used engine painted real shiny!)
The B.A.R. contacted me yesterday and they told me the good news is that Mr. Sucky will fix the engine under warranty at no cost to me. The bad news is, Mr. Sucky will fix the engine under warranty at no cost to me!
Do I even dare take my truck back there again?
I could take it somewhere else for a whole new engine, out of my pocket and sue Mr. Sucky. But when the B.A.R. demanded payment for the license, Mr. Sucky said he had no checking account....so he handed the BAR inspector $250 cash! So even if I take him to small claims court....how do I get paid back?
I've NEVER been treated like this in 36 years of driving!!!!!.....so I have no experience in these kind of problems.
What would you do?
......thanks for reading!
.
.
She is just too nice to give up on!
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BajaTaco
Swashbuckler
I would tell the CA B.A.R. that Mr. Sucky has already had TWO opportunities to perform his work that you have already paid for IN FULL. And that by now, it is preposterous for them to expect you to allow Mr. Sucky to even touch your truck again, after PROVING that he is obviously irresponsible, unprofessional, and INCOMPETENT. What if mister sucky was a surgeon? Would they expect you to go back and let him cut you open again - at "no charge"?? I think not. The CA B.A.R. should be doing whatever it takes to assist you in getting the legal process going to award you a monetary refund and/or compensation for the incompetent work that Mr. Sucky has done. He needs to own up to his errors and be responsible for them - by refunding your money. If he is flat broke, then he should arrange to make scheduled payments to you, or his future wages/income should be garnished until he satisfies the debt.
My .02
My .02
david despain
Adventurer
there has to be a point where enough is enough and you just have to cut your losses and run. sounds like you might be there. i dont know what the money situation is with mr sucky but you may be better off in the long run to find a different solution to the problem and chalk it up to a lesson learned the hard way. at least then you would have the truck up and running again. i know nobody wants to admit defeat and give the bad guy the satisfaction but i know i couldnt be this long with out the transportation. if you could get anything at all as far as a setlement either from mr sucky or the ca b.a.r. i would take what ever it was and never look back. it sure does suck though
datrupr
Expedition Leader
The biggest problem I see with taking it back to Mr. Sucky is will it be done correctly this time? And don't forget the fact. Mark, that last time he had it for warrenty repair, it took him what? Six weeks? And for not even getting it fixed? I think it is even more f@#*ed up now than it was when you first brought it too him. For that kinda $$ I would be pissed also, but I would talk to CA B.A.R. to see if there is not something that they can do to refund your $$ and then take it somewhere else that can do the job properly. Now, I am no mechanic by any means, but I think even I could rebuild an engine to work properly after 2 tries and 2 months. I would express great dissatisfaction with the CA B.A.R. about thier decision. They should not have renewed this guys license to begin with, and they should make him refund your $$ in whole and let you take your business elsewhere. Man, I am getting angry just typing this.
Sorry, just a little passionate about your situation buddy. I hate it when I get hosed by someone who claims to be a "professional" and when other people do too.
Sorry, just a little passionate about your situation buddy. I hate it when I get hosed by someone who claims to be a "professional" and when other people do too.
S
Scenic WonderRunner
Guest
Thanks......
Chris.....Aaron.....David!.....thanks for sharing your thoughts!
The history on the WonderRunner is......
I bought it about 3 years ago, from a car dealer in New Jersey. I was told it needed new head gaskets. I always wanted a 4Runner like this.....so I felt I could deal with the head gasket issue with a truck that had only 52,000 original miles. Rather than buying an old 4Runner here in San Diego with 200K plus miles!
I took delivery via rail car in Riverside about 3 Years Ago. I GOT THE HEADGASKETS DONE $800 + Other Parts Replaced....TOTALLING ABOUT $1,400.
This was a Bum Headgasket job (I felt it had a cracked block!). A defective head was put back on my engine......which ment I needed an engine rebuild last Oct. 2005 because of still getting oil in the water!
Mr. Sucky did a terrible job...and even broke my Overdrive. This even made me miss the first ever Expedition Portal Rally!!!!!!!! I took the truck to him in Oct. 2005 and did not get it back until late Dec. 2005. But I STILL had OIL in the WATER! After paying $2,285 CASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! with a 2 year/ 24K warranty.
So now it's Feb. 2006.
I take the truck back to Mr. Sucky for a warranty repair to fix the oil in water.
......and here I sit today with a sucky engine.....rebuilt by Mr. Sucky......with ALL the problems mentioned in the above post!
For all the Love that goes around this board for Toyota's................I'm sure having a really hard time agreeing! But when I open my door of my 4Runner and it still smells new.....I know that somehow I need to save her!!!!!
Keep the comments coming.....because I REALLY need HELP!!!!!!!
~Thanks.........Mark
Chris.....Aaron.....David!.....thanks for sharing your thoughts!
The history on the WonderRunner is......
I bought it about 3 years ago, from a car dealer in New Jersey. I was told it needed new head gaskets. I always wanted a 4Runner like this.....so I felt I could deal with the head gasket issue with a truck that had only 52,000 original miles. Rather than buying an old 4Runner here in San Diego with 200K plus miles!
I took delivery via rail car in Riverside about 3 Years Ago. I GOT THE HEADGASKETS DONE $800 + Other Parts Replaced....TOTALLING ABOUT $1,400.
This was a Bum Headgasket job (I felt it had a cracked block!). A defective head was put back on my engine......which ment I needed an engine rebuild last Oct. 2005 because of still getting oil in the water!
Mr. Sucky did a terrible job...and even broke my Overdrive. This even made me miss the first ever Expedition Portal Rally!!!!!!!! I took the truck to him in Oct. 2005 and did not get it back until late Dec. 2005. But I STILL had OIL in the WATER! After paying $2,285 CASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! with a 2 year/ 24K warranty.
So now it's Feb. 2006.
I take the truck back to Mr. Sucky for a warranty repair to fix the oil in water.
......and here I sit today with a sucky engine.....rebuilt by Mr. Sucky......with ALL the problems mentioned in the above post!
For all the Love that goes around this board for Toyota's................I'm sure having a really hard time agreeing! But when I open my door of my 4Runner and it still smells new.....I know that somehow I need to save her!!!!!
Keep the comments coming.....because I REALLY need HELP!!!!!!!
~Thanks.........Mark
datrupr
Expedition Leader
Keep the 4-Runner Mark, just get it fixed. Preferably by someone other than Mr. Sucky. That year 3.0 is well know for head issues, but they can be fixed. And with only 52K it is an awesome truck. Get it fixed, and get out here to do a trail run cause I wanna chack it out in person!
S
Scenic WonderRunner
Guest
Thanks so much Aaron!
I enjoy this board soooo much!
I was sooo upset that I missed the rally.......and the night time creek crossing with AL and Brian!......LOL
I really am a true 4x4....explorer lover!....Please believe me! LOL
When the WonderRunner is fixed....I will be sure to meet up with you AZ. folks!
In fact.....I'm hoping to do a long summer trip (about 5 to 6 weeks) at the 2nd half of summer.....and head for AZ. NM. CO. WY. UT. .....and back home to San Diego. If my truck ever gets fixed...I wanted to post up info on the trip I want to do....and maybe find a buddy or two or more to tag along!
I enjoy this board soooo much!
I was sooo upset that I missed the rally.......and the night time creek crossing with AL and Brian!......LOL
I really am a true 4x4....explorer lover!....Please believe me! LOL
When the WonderRunner is fixed....I will be sure to meet up with you AZ. folks!
In fact.....I'm hoping to do a long summer trip (about 5 to 6 weeks) at the 2nd half of summer.....and head for AZ. NM. CO. WY. UT. .....and back home to San Diego. If my truck ever gets fixed...I wanted to post up info on the trip I want to do....and maybe find a buddy or two or more to tag along!
datrupr said: