Thats easy. I posted my opinion about their sacred cow and they didn't like it.
Toyota releases extra tough Land Cruiser GX for Australia
- Thread starter ckkone
- Start date
Thats easy. I posted my opinion about their sacred cow and they didn't like it.
Pskhaat
2005 Expedition Trophy Champion
Ok, I'm bowing out, but surely you've driven the stock lc60 with 225/75r15 and experienced hitting the front shackles on everything along with scraping the rear end with the soft rear springs. The 60was horrible off the shelf.
Peace
RMP&O
Expedition Leader
Here ya go....
http://www.amazon.com/Land-Cruiser-...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1324158331&sr=1-1
I have had mine for at least 6 or 7 years. I do believe there is not just one author, it is/was published by 4x4Magazine in Japan.
And here is the quote, paragraph one of the 80 series section....
"At the time the 60-sereis was being driven more for leisure or family use, and as a town car, than as an off-road vehicle. Over time the demand increased for a more fashionable and passenger car like characteristics. The response to this market demand was the 80-series Land Cruiser"
and the next paragraph...
"The aim of the 80-series was to be both at the forefront of technology and luxury. Along with passenger car like styling in the front design, wide tires and large fenders gave it a bold effect, looking something like a luxury battleship that could cruise the land. It was a break from the tradition of Japanese 4x4. Moreover, accommodations remained for offroad applications, such as space in the instrument panel to install wireless communications equipment, and a rail for mounting a roof carrier."
and the last paragraph on the 1st page of the 80-series...
"The 80-series was born in a favorable enviroment of the Bubble economy. However, it did not suffer when the bubble burst, and the LandCruiser cruises ahead on the luxury road aiming for the goal of being a world-class top level luxury 4x4. In its final phase the Land Cruiser 80 sold for over 4,000,000 yen. However, luxury has not softened the Land Cruiser. It has not sacrificed its ability to take on the toughest roads the world has to offer. No matter that it is more comfortable and luxurious to ride in, the Land Cruiser remains the Land Cruiser, which is the reason for its lasting popularity."
and now I quote the last paragraph on page 1 of the 100-series.....
"Though the Land Cruiser 100 continues to evolve on the path of the passenger car, there are still users overseas who drive it offroad. To meet these needs such as in Australia and other rugged enviroments, Toyota has created an Land Cruiser 105-series with ridgid coil springs in the suspension. Now matter how much it takes on the aura of luxury, the Land Cruiser is never far from it's roots as an offroad vehicle."
FYI, I bought a 1987 FJ60 back in 1990. I had it for about 3yrs or so. A very good friend of mine bought a 93 80-series brand new off the lot. At the time I never thought of either truck as a serious off-roader and my knowledge on the subject was very limited. However, also at the time, I saw the 80-series as a big luxury 4wd not really made for romping off-road. Rather a luxury (the price tag alone made my mind up on this) SUV that would at most see 4wd use on snowy roads heading for the ski hill. Times change, knowledge increases and nowdays I feel the 80-series is one of the best out of the box 4wds ever offered in the USA. However, it its stock form I still feel it is a mall crawler. That is what it was designed for all along so why should I argue this fact?
I do agree with a lot of what Stage 2 says, still. However, what I see being discussed here is peoples opinions. You got one guy trying to prove his point and opinions and then you have some other guys argueing against that. Nothing new there as far as forums go. I would suggest though you try this discussion on say Pirate 4x4 and see which way it sways.
My opinion is that the 100/200-series is a mall crawler. That is what it was designed for and I have no confusion about the subject. Stage 2 and myself are also not the only people with this opinion, not by a long shot but here on Expo the majority of people do not do anything other then light to mild offroading. As a result we (people on the forum) have differnt veiws and opinions on what is a good truck be it for offroad use or just in general. My opinion is also that the 80-series is a mall crawler yet it combined the best of both worlds, ie mall crawler and offroader. Also in my opinion the 80-series was the last Cruiser made by Toyota that tried to appeal to both markets, mall crawl and offroad. In other words Toyota did away with a vehicle that tried to appeal to both markets and insted focused on a luxury mall crawler and in other parts of the world focused on a offroader/workhorse, ie the 70-series.
You guys can say all you want about the 100/200 series being a good offroader. Heck, I can even respect the fact that if all you do is some mild trails, well for that the truck suits you well. By all means, if it works for you and you like it go for it!! I stand by my early point though that I could drive a Subaru pretty much anywhere or farther then an 100/200 series will go, especially if we are talking about the 1980s Subaru. Fact of the matter is the 100/200 series is not the best choice for doing anything more then mild offroading. It also was not designed for anything other then that. If your use of the truck is to set it up for camping and then drive down some dirt roads and camp out, well I see no reason the 100/200 series is not as good as any other vehicle out there. If you enjoy the wood grain trim, ugly looks, IFS and all that jazz....who cares it is your truck! And as your truck I would not want anything but for you to enjoy it. However, if you are going to get on a public forum and go off about how it is just as good as any other Cruiser (or better) and is just as capable offroad. Well, I am amused because not only do you not know what makes a good offroader you simply have a lot to learn about the subject of offroading, 4wd vehicles, building a truck for hard use and so forth. And that I feel is not an opinion!
The world is at your finger tips folks. It is your choice if you want to educate yourself and learn. Or you can sit here and argue about it with pretty much like minded people. The thing is about discussion with people who think the same, the discussion doesn't go very far other then to back each other up or to gang up on somebody and point the finger. You guys should be thankful Stage 2 has decided to continue to have this discussion with you. If he was not doing that, well wouldn't this just be a bunch of fans boys praising a truck or complaing about not being able to buy what they want?
trailsurfer
Explorer
Here ya go....
http://www.amazon.com/Land-Cruiser-...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1324158331&sr=1-1
I have had mine for at least 6 or 7 years. I do believe there is not just one author, it is/was published by 4x4Magazine in Japan.
And here is the quote, paragraph one of the 80 series section....
"At the time the 60-sereis was being driven more for leisure or family use, and as a town car, than as an off-road vehicle. Over time the demand increased for a more fashionable and passenger car like characteristics. The response to this market demand was the 80-series Land Cruiser"
and the next paragraph...
"The aim of the 80-series was to be both at the forefront of technology and luxury. Along with passenger car like styling in the front design, wide tires and large fenders gave it a bold effect, looking something like a luxury battleship that could cruise the land. It was a break from the tradition of Japanese 4x4. Moreover, accommodations remained for offroad applications, such as space in the instrument panel to install wireless communications equipment, and a rail for mounting a roof carrier."
and the last paragraph on the 1st page of the 80-series...
"The 80-series was born in a favorable enviroment of the Bubble economy. However, it did not suffer when the bubble burst, and the LandCruiser cruises ahead on the luxury road aiming for the goal of being a world-class top level luxury 4x4. In its final phase the Land Cruiser 80 sold for over 4,000,000 yen. However, luxury has not softened the Land Cruiser. It has not sacrificed its ability to take on the toughest roads the world has to offer. No matter that it is more comfortable and luxurious to ride in, the Land Cruiser remains the Land Cruiser, which is the reason for its lasting popularity."
and now I quote the last paragraph on page 1 of the 100-series.....
"Though the Land Cruiser 100 continues to evolve on the path of the passenger car, there are still users overseas who drive it offroad. To meet these needs such as in Australia and other rugged enviroments, Toyota has created an Land Cruiser 105-series with ridgid coil springs in the suspension. Now matter how much it takes on the aura of luxury, the Land Cruiser is never far from it's roots as an offroad vehicle."
FYI, I bought a 1987 FJ60 back in 1990. I had it for about 3yrs or so. A very good friend of mine bought a 93 80-series brand new off the lot. At the time I never thought of either truck as a serious off-roader and my knowledge on the subject was very limited. However, also at the time, I saw the 80-series as a big luxury 4wd not really made for romping off-road. Rather a luxury (the price tag alone made my mind up on this) SUV that would at most see 4wd use on snowy roads heading for the ski hill. Times change, knowledge increases and nowdays I feel the 80-series is one of the best out of the box 4wds ever offered in the USA. However, it its stock form I still feel it is a mall crawler. That is what it was designed for all along so why should I argue this fact?
I do agree with a lot of what Stage 2 says, still. However, what I see being discussed here is peoples opinions. You got one guy trying to prove his point and opinions and then you have some other guys argueing against that. Nothing new there as far as forums go. I would suggest though you try this discussion on say Pirate 4x4 and see which way it sways.
My opinion is that the 100/200-series is a mall crawler. That is what it was designed for and I have no confusion about the subject. Stage 2 and myself are also not the only people with this opinion, not by a long shot but here on Expo the majority of people do not do anything other then light to mild offroading. As a result we (people on the forum) have differnt veiws and opinions on what is a good truck be it for offroad use or just in general. My opinion is also that the 80-series is a mall crawler yet it combined the best of both worlds, ie mall crawler and offroader. Also in my opinion the 80-series was the last Cruiser made by Toyota that tried to appeal to both markets, mall crawl and offroad. In other words Toyota did away with a vehicle that tried to appeal to both markets and insted focused on a luxury mall crawler and in other parts of the world focused on a offroader/workhorse, ie the 70-series.
You guys can say all you want about the 100/200 series being a good offroader. Heck, I can even respect the fact that if all you do is some mild trails, well for that the truck suits you well. By all means, if it works for you and you like it go for it!! I stand by my early point though that I could drive a Subaru pretty much anywhere or farther then an 100/200 series will go, especially if we are talking about the 1980s Subaru. Fact of the matter is the 100/200 series is not the best choice for doing anything more then mild offroading. It also was not designed for anything other then that. If your use of the truck is to set it up for camping and then drive down some dirt roads and camp out, well I see no reason the 100/200 series is not as good as any other vehicle out there. If you enjoy the wood grain trim, ugly looks, IFS and all that jazz....who cares it is your truck! And as your truck I would not want anything but for you to enjoy it. However, if you are going to get on a public forum and go off about how it is just as good as any other Cruiser (or better) and is just as capable offroad. Well, I am amused because not only do you not know what makes a good offroader you simply have a lot to learn about the subject of offroading, 4wd vehicles, building a truck for hard use and so forth. And that I feel is not an opinion!
The world is at your finger tips folks. It is your choice if you want to educate yourself and learn. Or you can sit here and argue about it with pretty much like minded people. The thing is about discussion with people who think the same, the discussion doesn't go very far other then to back each other up or to gang up on somebody and point the finger. You guys should be thankful Stage 2 has decided to continue to have this discussion with you. If he was not doing that, well wouldn't this just be a bunch of fans boys praising a truck or complaing about not being able to buy what they want?
I have to respectfully disagree. While my 200 is, as you would say a "mild" off road machine, snow on my way to ski and trails here in the San Juans and Utah. I have traveled in Baja with both 200 and 100 series Cruisers that go anywhere the built Jeeps, Tacoma's, and various other assorted overland vehicles go. I recently sold my 1989, 62 series, and know the capabilities of both. I just don't want to abuse my mall cruiser the same way I abused my 60 series.
I have been all over Africa and Australia many times and those are the vehicles of choice, along with the Nissan Patrol, when in the bush and a higher level of comfort is desired. But I would personally choose a 70 series for hard core work over there, no independent front suspension and a lot less money when you eventually bend or break something.
Fun discussion.
Last edited:
RMP&O
Expedition Leader
I hope you didn't miss my comment about the 80-series being one of the best out of the box 4wds ever sold in the USA!?
As far as stock trucks to me that part of the discussion is kind of moot. I mean come on folks, this is an overland forum. People modify their vehicles for overland use, a big part of that is for use offroad. This is why the IFS kills the 100/200 series for me or any other truck with IFS. I had a Taco not long ago that was IFS, it never gave me any problems for what I used it for. However I am not going to tell you it was as good as any SFA truck. When I bought my Taco the main use was around town, down the hwy on the pavement. As I have gravitated more to a DD that can do well offroad I have gone to a solid axle truck.
For me what it comes down to is how easy it is to modify a truck and get good results offroad. In general too an IFS truck is going to not like being lifted a lot and it will weaken the axles to do so. While doing this in a solid axle truck does nothing to weaken the axles or suspension. The result is I can fit 35" rubber way easier without weakening my drivetrain much while on an IFS truck like the 100/200 series this is not possible. I think this is a very valid point since not many of us are driving around in stock trucks and for me modifying my truck is a big part of the hobby. It is plain and simple when you look at it this way. A SFA truck on leaf springs is easier to modify and will get you way better results then lifting an IFS truck. A coil sprung SFA truck is the same thing but is going to ride and handle better and if set up right should out flex a leaf spring truck. An independant suspension truck unless it is some high dollar trophy vehicle can never compare to this in terms of axle strength, articulation and so forth, at least not with todays technology. Yes IFS handles better and feels more like a car but that is what it was designed to do.
I could post pictures to back up the whole IFS to SFA arguement but no need really. The only point in posting pictures would be to show a SUA suspension on old school leaf springs can easily outperform an IFS truck without a lot of work, outperform being offroad. If you go SOA or have coil springs it is the same thing but should get you better results if flex is your deal. And lets be honest, offroad flex and traction are number one in terms of what is good and what is bad. Keeping a tire on the ground and keeping traction to that tire will take you farther then anything else in the dirt, that be a fact. Having owned everything from an old school 40yrs old Patrols to a 6x6 Pinzgauer to a Taco to a highly modified rock crawler on 40" rubber and 16" coilovers I can tell you without a doubt there is no way a 100/200 series truck will do as good offroad as a solid axle truck. No comparsion to stock either since not many people are driving around in stock overland trucks offroading.
Now is your 100/200 series going to be nicer down the washboard roads of Baja? Of course it is, no arguement from me there. Beyond that and the comfort thing the advantages end with the 100/200 series, IMHO of course.
So while I hear what you are saying and it is all good I simply do not believe you can take a 100/200 series where I can drive my solid axle trucks and I have to disagree with that. This being with them set up similar too, ie 4" lift, lockers f&r and good tires in the dirt. Can you get to the trail in more style then me and more comfort? Of course you can but I can have a/c too and new seats or things like sound deadening is simply a matter of money.
As far as stock trucks to me that part of the discussion is kind of moot. I mean come on folks, this is an overland forum. People modify their vehicles for overland use, a big part of that is for use offroad. This is why the IFS kills the 100/200 series for me or any other truck with IFS. I had a Taco not long ago that was IFS, it never gave me any problems for what I used it for. However I am not going to tell you it was as good as any SFA truck. When I bought my Taco the main use was around town, down the hwy on the pavement. As I have gravitated more to a DD that can do well offroad I have gone to a solid axle truck.
For me what it comes down to is how easy it is to modify a truck and get good results offroad. In general too an IFS truck is going to not like being lifted a lot and it will weaken the axles to do so. While doing this in a solid axle truck does nothing to weaken the axles or suspension. The result is I can fit 35" rubber way easier without weakening my drivetrain much while on an IFS truck like the 100/200 series this is not possible. I think this is a very valid point since not many of us are driving around in stock trucks and for me modifying my truck is a big part of the hobby. It is plain and simple when you look at it this way. A SFA truck on leaf springs is easier to modify and will get you way better results then lifting an IFS truck. A coil sprung SFA truck is the same thing but is going to ride and handle better and if set up right should out flex a leaf spring truck. An independant suspension truck unless it is some high dollar trophy vehicle can never compare to this in terms of axle strength, articulation and so forth, at least not with todays technology. Yes IFS handles better and feels more like a car but that is what it was designed to do.
I could post pictures to back up the whole IFS to SFA arguement but no need really. The only point in posting pictures would be to show a SUA suspension on old school leaf springs can easily outperform an IFS truck without a lot of work, outperform being offroad. If you go SOA or have coil springs it is the same thing but should get you better results if flex is your deal. And lets be honest, offroad flex and traction are number one in terms of what is good and what is bad. Keeping a tire on the ground and keeping traction to that tire will take you farther then anything else in the dirt, that be a fact. Having owned everything from an old school 40yrs old Patrols to a 6x6 Pinzgauer to a Taco to a highly modified rock crawler on 40" rubber and 16" coilovers I can tell you without a doubt there is no way a 100/200 series truck will do as good offroad as a solid axle truck. No comparsion to stock either since not many people are driving around in stock overland trucks offroading.
Now is your 100/200 series going to be nicer down the washboard roads of Baja? Of course it is, no arguement from me there. Beyond that and the comfort thing the advantages end with the 100/200 series, IMHO of course.
So while I hear what you are saying and it is all good I simply do not believe you can take a 100/200 series where I can drive my solid axle trucks and I have to disagree with that. This being with them set up similar too, ie 4" lift, lockers f&r and good tires in the dirt. Can you get to the trail in more style then me and more comfort? Of course you can but I can have a/c too and new seats or things like sound deadening is simply a matter of money.
RMP&O
Expedition Leader
You are welcome. It is a great read and a HUGE wealth of info on the Cruiser. In fact I think it has more info and history in it then any other book out there, it is very detailed. If you can find it buy it! I think SOR might sell it....
trailsurfer
Explorer
I hope you didn't miss my comment about the 80-series being one of the best out of the box 4wds ever sold in the USA!?
As far as stock trucks to me that part of the discussion is kind of moot. I mean come on folks, this is an overland forum. People modify their vehicles for overland use, a big part of that is for use offroad. This is why the IFS kills the 100/200 series for me or any other truck with IFS. I had a Taco not long ago that was IFS, it never gave me any problems for what I used it for. However I am not going to tell you it was as good as any SFA truck. When I bought my Taco the main use was around town, down the hwy on the pavement. As I have gravitated more to a DD that can do well offroad I have gone to a solid axle truck.
For me what it comes down to is how easy it is to modify a truck and get good results offroad. In general too an IFS truck is going to not like being lifted a lot and it will weaken the axles to do so. While doing this in a solid axle truck does nothing to weaken the axles or suspension. The result is I can fit 35" rubber way easier without weakening my drivetrain much while on an IFS truck like the 100/200 series this is not possible. I think this is a very valid point since not many of us are driving around in stock trucks and for me modifying my truck is a big part of the hobby. It is plain and simple when you look at it this way. A SFA truck on leaf springs is easier to modify and will get you way better results then lifting an IFS truck. A coil sprung SFA truck is the same thing but is going to ride and handle better and if set up right should out flex a leaf spring truck. An independant suspension truck unless it is some high dollar trophy vehicle can never compare to this in terms of axle strength, articulation and so forth, at least not with todays technology. Yes IFS handles better and feels more like a car but that is what it was designed to do.
I could post pictures to back up the whole IFS to SFA arguement but no need really. The only point in posting pictures would be to show a SUA suspension on old school leaf springs can easily outperform an IFS truck without a lot of work, outperform being offroad. If you go SOA or have coil springs it is the same thing but should get you better results if flex is your deal. And lets be honest, offroad flex and traction are number one in terms of what is good and what is bad. Keeping a tire on the ground and keeping traction to that tire will take you farther then anything else in the dirt, that be a fact. Having owned everything from an old school 40yrs old Patrols to a 6x6 Pinzgauer to a Taco to a highly modified rock crawler on 40" rubber and 16" coilovers I can tell you without a doubt there is no way a 100/200 series truck will do as good offroad as a solid axle truck. No comparsion to stock either since not many people are driving around in stock overland trucks offroading.
Now is your 100/200 series going to be nicer down the washboard roads of Baja? Of course it is, no arguement from me there. Beyond that and the comfort thing the advantages end with the 100/200 series, IMHO of course.
So while I hear what you are saying and it is all good I simply do not believe you can take a 100/200 series where I can drive my solid axle trucks and I have to disagree with that. This being with them set up similar too, ie 4" lift, lockers f&r and good tires in the dirt. Can you get to the trail in more style then me and more comfort? Of course you can but I can have a/c too and new seats or things like sound deadening is simply a matter of money.
A solid axle truck is always going to be stronger and much more reliable. But, where these guys take their 100/200 series aren't washboard roads. We are talking 50-60 miles of trail blazing up arroyo's and crawling up and down trails and obstacles. In my opinion you are going to modify any serious off road truck, whether it is a 60 series, Tacoma, or 200 series (one caveat, I have seen bone stock JK's rock crawl with the best of them).
Again, all things being equal, the only two overland vehicles that I have seen that are truly "capable" out of the box are a 70 series LC or a JK. I am sure there are others.
I re-read your post on the 80 series. I agree!
I wouldn't call it necessarily horrible, but the factory tires were useless for anything but fire roads. However again the beauty of these older cruisers (and hiluxes) is that you could fit muck larger tires (up to a 33 with no rubbing) and give yourself an instant lift. You can't do that on these newer vehicles without a lift kit because of the plastic wheel wells and subframe for the IFS.
There's no question you can build a 100 or 200 into being a real capable rig. The question is how capable are the rigs that toyota is churning out at the factory. I think the fact that toyota built a solid axle version of the 100 series to "meed the demands of off roaders" demonstrates what the stock 100 was built for. In fact, the book cited by RMP&O expressly says this....
"Even though a solid axle can still be had, this model (the 100 series), makes it clear that this flagship Land Cruiser has reached the end of it's serious off road roots. With IFS and lower ground clearance, this generation just cannot compete with the older generation Land cruisers when it comes to serious off road ability."
Digging this one back up, hopefully not to re-start the he-said-she-said again...
Driving past the Toyota dealership this morning, this was sitting in pride of place right out front:
Barn doors - check.
Steel wheels - check.
Snorkel - check.
GX badging on the rear - check.
V8 Twin-Turbo Diesel donk - check.
It was up on stands, tall enough that even I couldn't see in easily, so I can't confirm the no-keyless-start, but expect it all to be in there. I didn't want to draw too much attention to myself, lest a salesman come out and start harassing me.
Just thought people here would be interested in seeing it in the flesh.
Thanks!
Matto
Driving past the Toyota dealership this morning, this was sitting in pride of place right out front:
Barn doors - check.
Steel wheels - check.
Snorkel - check.
GX badging on the rear - check.
V8 Twin-Turbo Diesel donk - check.
It was up on stands, tall enough that even I couldn't see in easily, so I can't confirm the no-keyless-start, but expect it all to be in there
. I didn't want to draw too much attention to myself, lest a salesman come out and start harassing me. Just thought people here would be interested in seeing it in the flesh.
Thanks!
Matto
355over113
New member
Very cool, thanks for posting that.
REDROVER
Explorer
for those in USA who think they missed this one, don't worry u didn't miss any thing
its seating at ur yota dealer and no one wants it, its looks the same as the worst selling SUV in USA ( 2009 and up land cruiser ) we want one just like 80 series, its good that this thing is not coming to usa let them keep it .
ERIC
its seating at ur yota dealer and no one wants it, its looks the same as the worst selling SUV in USA ( 2009 and up land cruiser ) we want one just like 80 series, its good that this thing is not coming to usa let them keep it .
ERIC