Trek Bicycles Powerfly FS Plus e-Assist bikes

[p nut]

... They don't particularly increase the likelihood of negative or harmful trail encounters due to speed...

When a novice (or any) rider can whiz UP a hill at 15mph+, I can't imagine it won't have any effect on trail encounters. E-bikes have really only started to get popular recently (at least around me), so it may not have been a problem in the past. I just hope no one gets hurt or worse before some safety measures are put into place.

 

[jayspies]

I'm with P-Nut on this one. While I don't think that this *particular* e-bike poses much of a threat, in my mind at least, it's a Pandora's box. Many e-bikes *don't* require you to pedal, and many are over boosted to the tune of thousands of watts. Some have electric motors on the front and rear wheels. Burnouts on pavement are common. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykM9RUWEOaY Notice that he's wearing almost full motorbike/downhill kit. How is that "bike" still a bike and not a motorcycle? Because it sports a vestigial set of pedals that are about as useful as an appendix. In the hands of an inexperienced (or lazy) rider, a trail can be shredded in no time.

Also, to Christophe's point, a big part of cycling is about fitness. I don't think that the geriatric scene who wants to get to the bowling alley and back is going to be the main buyer of these bikes. E-bikes, to me, are a crutch, an easy way out, for people who would rather not work as hard for the same ride. I'm 46 years old, and slow. I could do a lot farther a lot faster on an e-bike, but that defeats the purpose of why I ride. The subset of those who are truly disabled and can't make the regular ride is likely a very small subset. I just don't see how opening up regular trails to motorized e-bikes is a good thing in any combination of events.

 

[MudderNutter]

People seem to be stuck on the top speed of the e-bikes... I think it's important to note that these trail use bikes have to have a power output of less than 300w. High Level cyclists put out more power than that on the reg. If they are allowed to ride any trail without worry of tearing up the trails, then why can't these pedal assist e-bikes be used? I'm young and in my prime... but if this product allows me to keep getting out there, and exploring when my body no longer lets me then you best damn be sure that I'll be on one!

 

[Ozrockrat]

I opened this thread with high anticipation but was quickly disappointed. My anticipation was based on the fact that I have not been able to mountain bike since suffering from a Legionnaires type virus a few years ago. This looked like an ideal way to open up my ability get back to something I loved doing and to teach my grand daughter the joys and benefits of mountain biking. Then I find a heap of elitist drivel about restricting access (while hypocritically complaining about horse riders doing exactly the same thing).

Open your minds guys. The more people enjoying the sport especially older more influential people will not be crapping in "your" nest but will give you a better voice for maintaining access. There may be a few people who will abuse the access but they would probably be the ones who are abusing whatever access they have at the moment.

Hopefully this thread will open up to answer the questions the original poster raised for those who are interested in e-bikes. (yeah I know I'm a hypocrite by hijacking the thread with this post )

 

[tgreening]

Agreed Oz. nothing brings out the elitist like a perecieved change to the way they think a hobby should be enjoyed. I have a hard time getting behind the rally cry of government intervention. It's easy to get behind when it's you asking the fed to regulate someone else in a fashion you agree with.

It's already been stated that the biggest threat to the MTB community is its CURRENT MEMBERS. E-bikes are a potential that will only be as bad as the person on it, much like the MTBrs P-nut mentioned who are already causing problems.

 

[Co-opski]

Sorry you guys are taking it that way. Yes some in the bike community do not view these as bikes and more of a motor vehicle. As flounder pointed out the bike retail industry supports this growth within the market. Sure you will have some like the UCI or any other racing organization within the bike community that will have nothing to do with eBikes. Nothing wrong with that either.

Many are quick to protect the very few trails that are mountain bike specific. There are so few trails that meet this criteria, just in Alaska I would say 20 miles of the trails are mountain bike specific out of half a million miles of trail with in the state. Sorry if you feel you need access to all the trails, but in reality if you are on an eBike a double black diamond trail may not be in you cards even if you want to hit the mandatory gap, elevated features and steep descents. I would be one of the elitist jerks that nicely tells Jerrys maybe you don't want to take your coaster brake huffy down dragons tail.

Now multi-use trail sure. If I have to ride around donky-trains, segways, seniors citizens and Pomeranians, horses, ATVs, SxS, and a suburban on rockwells sure open it up to eBikes. If eBikes want to ride locally on non-motorized trails work with your local government to allow them. Don't think a non-user is just going to lobby for you. By the way I would have no problem sharing a non-motorized bike path with this 1917 Harley Davidson or Trek Powerfly FS. Would I have a problem with that Harley if it was on a bike course meant for flow, features and air? Yes, the same way you would have a problem with a golf cart trying to navigate the Rubicon.

 

[p nut]

First, that 1917 Harley is awesome.
_
Second, I'm no elitist, but even if I were, that has no relevance here. We're talking about integrating an unknown, or something outside of original parameters of usage. The rules are there for a reason. i.e. I can't ride on some freeways on my bicycle, even on the shoulder. You also can't even take some motorized vehicles (i.e. a 50cc scooter) on the freeway. Unfair? I think not.
_
Want to change/amend the rules? Fine. But go through the proper channels. Once implemented, I'll happily share the trail with e-bikes, hoverboards, whatever. In the meantime, I am going to stick to my stance on the issue. I wholeheartedly don't agree with e-bikes on non-motorized trails, period.

 

[Christophe Noel]

Hmm...interesting, if not over reactionary responses on both sides. I don't have much saddle time on e-bikes, but the few miles I've logged made me realize that this is much-ado about nothing. They're unrealistically expensive, so they will always be niche of niche. They also still require some power from the rider, so it's not like they're a substitute for a KTM two-stroke. I also don't see how they are any more or less dangerous to trail or rider as any bike.

As for all of this elitist poppyc0ck, I think that comment is reactionary as well. The only pushback I've seen to e-bikes has everything to do with a realistic concern that such bikes could be problematic for bike access in the long haul. That's not elitism, that's just concerned stewardship.

I still think that they'll only appeal to a select group of people for very individualized reasons.

 

[proper4wd]

Thats fine and everything, but it still has a motor so it shouldn't be on non-motorized trails.

 

[Christophe Noel]

Thats fine and everything, but it still has a motor so it shouldn't be on non-motorized trails.

I think trail use categories in general are up for debate, which is why this particular issue is such a sticky wicket. There have been attempts to qualify "motor."

As someone who has reported on this before, and tried to evaluate it as objectively as possible, tackling it from specific angles doesn't simplify things. I occasionally ride with a power meter on my bike and know I produce more power than some of these "motors." Some argue they cause more trail damage, but it's hard to ignore the elephant in the room, which is actually a horse. Then there is the concern of excessive speed, which hasn't appeared to transitioned from a theoretical danger to an actual one. There's nothing to say a 50 year old woman on an e-Bike is more/less dangerous to other users than a 20 year old bro all jacked up on Red Bull and GoPro attention.

The pandora's box issue of opening trails to "any" motorized use, to me is the only valid concern, but even then, that's contingent on this issue of qualifying what constitutes a motor and what can be allowed on multi-used trails.

I'm not so diametrically opposed to it as I once was, largely because I think it's a non-issue. I imagine Trek is going to sell fewer than 100 of this bikes in year.

 

[p nut]

e-bike sales are UP and projected to continue its increase, while total bike sales overall in a lot of regions is down.

http://www.statista.com/statistics/326124/us-sales-of-electric-bicycles/

http://www.bike-eu.com/sales-trends...-double-digit-growth-in-main-markets-10126236

Just as with when 29ers were introduced, fat bikes, plus bikes, etc., few early adapters pay premium price, which is what we're seeing now. But once it goes full-scale mass production as technology catches up, prices go down, performance improves, etc., and every single manufacturer is popping these things out, the problems will definitely unfold. It's something that needs to be discussed now instead of the shoulder shrug it seems to be getting.

 

[Christophe Noel]

Those stats don't tell the whole story. eBikes are getting to be huge in the urban commuting and recreational riding segment, but as it relates to singletrack riding with the level of enthusiast willing to drop in excess of $3000 for an ebike...those numbers are tiny.

 

[p nut]

Probably. But the point is, that whole segment is on the rise. Cheaper battery, better power, evolving tech means those prices will start coming down. Demand will obviously rise. But like anything else, it'll take some tragic event(s) before anything is done.

 

[Madoxen]

So some 4 years later how is this Argument/concern panning out for you guys n gals

 

[Weeds]

The emtb's are winning. More and more trails are opening for Class 1 e-bikes.