Tundra coils and tundra bilsteins on a Tacoma

[austintaco]

I have been running this setup for 6 years with stock Tundra coils and shocks, but I don't put that many miles on the truck, so it's held up well. I bought the setup used, and I think they had about 20k on them, so I am going to assume that the coils and springs have about 100K on them now.

How long do coils last? Do I need to replace the coil and shock at the same time?

For the tundra adjustable bilsteins, what part number are people using? I keep finding two different part numbers for the 5100 5 way adjustable Tundra bilsteins.


Thanks

 

[Stone_Blue]

Has the front end dropped?...If its still sitting at the close to the same height as when you put them in, then your springs are probably OK.
No, you do not NEED to replace them at the same time, but it would save you $50-$100 to have someone switch the springs over, IF you pulled the struts yourself and took them in to be swapped...Much more if you are paying someone to do all the labor, as you would basically have to do the same job twice, if you dont replace springs/struts at the same time....Again, it depends on if your springs really need changing...

As to Bilsteins, I couldnt say for sure...It may depend on what year, cab style, and engine of the Tundra youre basing everything off.
Best bet is to go search www.TundraSolutions.com for "bilstein 5100 part number"
I KNOW the various part numbers have been discussed quite a bit over there before, so you should get at least a few threads.
As a matter of fact, if you can find one where someone from Ajusa.com, or YotaDan responded, then they would have good numbers for sure. (Ajusa.com is a forum sponsor that specializes in 5100s, and YotaDan is a Wheeler's Offroad employee, and they also carry the 5100s for the Tundies)

Used stock coil springs show up often on the TS For Sale forum...The TRD springs go for a premium, as those are the ones most people want...Just know that there are like 6 basic, color coded sets of springs for the 1st gen tundies....I know zilch about the 2nd gens (07-12)

 

[austintaco]

Thanks Stone Blue. I popped over to TS and bought the Tundra adjustable bilsteins. Great price right now too. $200 shipped! I am going to reuse my current tundra coils. I think they actually have only 70K or less, and my ride height seems consistent with my initial measurement in 07, taking into account the taller tire.

 

[Stone_Blue]

Kewl deal! Post pics after the install.

 

[austintaco]

I wanted to update this thread with some info I have found. For some background on doing the Tundra coil swap for 4runners and Tacomas, these are two good threads to reference:
http://www.ultimateyota.com/showthread.php?87-Tundra-TRD-Coil-Springs-to-LIFT-a-4Runner-or-Tacoma/page5&highlight=tundra+coils+bilstein

Bamachem and Steve of Sonoran Steel originally put this lift together and Steve sells a complete system on his site. Here is a discussion on Expo:


http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/66789-2nd-look-at-03-Tacoma-front-suspension?highlight=tundra+coil+bilstein

As I noted in that thread, my coils are rubbing the inside of the shock tower. It's more pronounced on the driver's side, and I have always heard a clang when I am turning right and there is a dip at the turn. It doesn't do it to the left. While looking at my setup in anticipation of replacing the shocks, I noticed that the driver's side coil is not as centered as the passenger side coil. The passenger side is centered, but the driver's side almost touches the shock tower at rest. I think Steve mentioned something in the above thread or another thread on the orientation of the spacers and coil is key to not getting any interference.

My Coil isolators are looking pretty ragged out. Do folks normally replace these with energy suspension isolators?moog?

My final setup should be:
Sonoran Steel Top out spacer (purchased back in 07)
New Coil isolators ( I think that's what these are called)
New Tundra 5100's
05 Tundra coils with the yellow yellow, and blue yellow markings .

With an ARB and this setup, what setting should I use for the 5100's?
My Coil isolators are looking pretty ragged out. Do folks normally replace these with energy suspension isolators?moog?

 

[Stone_Blue]

Steve may very well be correct. Look in just about any Toyota FSM for a front coil sprung 4x4, and you will see a diagram specifying the orientation of the coil springs to strut to frame mount.
You hardly ever hear anyone mention this when doing their own front strut replacement, but I gotta figure if Toyota took the time/effort to draw up a diagram and include it in their FSM's, then there must be a good reason to follow it.

I have the manual for '05-'06 Tacomas, but when I save the relevant page as a .pdf to attach here, its a few KB too over the attachment limit for the forum...
There is one in the '00-'02 Tundra FSM, that is QUITE different from the one I saw in the Tacoma FSM.

As to the coil insulators (yes, thats what they are called ) I am not sure if Energy Suspension has them in poly. I know Wheeler's Offroad has about the best price on isolators....I dont remember if they are rubber or poly.
I CAN tell you NOT to buy KYB brand rubber isolators. The ones I bought not even a year ago, are already cracking severely. Label on box says "Made in India"... I got mine at RockAuto.com

As to what setting to go on the 5100's, hard to say...Since you are basically using coils/struts from a completely different/heavier vehicle. I would say you REALLY need to talk to several people who have already done this same swap, with the same coils/struts you are using, AND with heavy bumpers/winches.
I guess other than that, I would split the difference to start with, and go with 2nd or 3rd notch. (Incidentally, the 5100's have FIVE actual notches...But most people refer to one thru four, leaving out the very bottom notch...I guess because bottom notch is 0" lift..??)

I got lucky when I did an OME 885/5100 swap on my '00 Tundie, in that there were quite a few people who had already done this swap. THAT being said, there were HUGELY varying lift results that everybody had... ?? SO even with quite a few people's experiences to work off, I had to go with my gut instincts as well. I managed to hit right where I wanted to be at just a hair under 2.75".

And, are you saying you are going to use a top spacer IN ADDITION to the coil/5100 lift?....Generally its pretty much frowned upon to double-stack different types of lifts. If you wanted that much more lift than the stock Tundra coils can give you, you might have been better off buying new aftermarket coils like the OME, Toytec, Eibach, Icons, etc...

And actually, since the spacer is thrown into the mix, I would say you'ld be better off just maxing out the 5100s on top notch, and leaving out the spacer...If its still too short for you, I would go with aftermarket coils and sell the Tundra coils and spacer.

 

[austintaco]

The spacer that I was going to use is the one that Steve used to sell separately. I bought it when I first put together this lift in 07. It's a 3/8 spacer that sits on top of the top plate. I thought that was this "custom poly retainer "piece that Steve refers to on his sight:
"All of the bushings, top plates, nuts, cups, custom poly retainer, etc. required for complete assembly, Genuine Toyota rubber/parts for the most resistance free movement and all brand new parts.

Custom Polyurethane Top Plates Retainers made to fit smaller trucks top plates and center larger trucks coils. Re-sizes the smaller top plate to hold a larger spring."

However, now that I read his description again, that may not be the case. My goal is to replicate the amount of lift I had with the older red/blue tundra bilsteins that everyone was putting on when this lift first came out, and replace them with the adjustable bilsteins.

I found the tundra isolators from Monroe on Amazon for $20 shipped for both, and they should be here tomorrow or Wed.

I'll do some more reading, but now I am almost wishing I had just bought a complete assembly from Steve.

 

[Stone_Blue]

Huh... I took a look at Sonorans website, but no pics of this "retainer" plate....

I think I get the idea of what it is.

Anyway, if its common for Tacoma guys to go with this spacer and Tundra coils for lift, or a higher than stock spring rate for a heavy bumper or winch, then I find that absolutely hilarious, since its very common for Tundra guys to buy aftermarket lift coils designed for the Tacomas, (since there is no aftermarket support for 1st Gen Tundies), and have to buy the smaller Tacoma rubber isolators so the smaller inner diameter of the coil springs fit the larger diameter Tundra top plates.....Just, well, ...WOW!!...********

 

[austintaco]

Does anyone have a good closeup of the SS tacoma bilstein adjustable coilover setup? or a link to a picture of the individual parts? Back in 07, the spacer was used to get an additional 1/2 of height. You are right, it would seem that this piece is not needed with the 5100 series shocks.

 

[austintaco]

I think I see the difference now. For one, Steve's kits use the custom valved shocks that he gets from bilstein. Looking at this pic:

and the tiny pic on his site:

I don't see the spacer that I bought from him back in 07. I do see, what I believe to be two coil isolators and the two poly top plate retainers. I think these are the item that is needed to not get frame interference. For a good writeup on an install and some other close up photos, I found this;
http://www.blankwhitepage.com/gallery/t4r_ss12/IMG_1981?set_fullOnly=on

 

[Stone_Blue]

^^ Ummm... Actually, the two smaller rings between the bumpstops and struts, in the top pic, are the LOWER spring seats that come with the 5100's. Oh, and make sure those go on the 5100s correctly...You would be surprised how many peopple put them on upside down, and end up either not being able to compress the spring enough to bolt on the top plate, OR end up with a massive amount of lift they werent expecting...lol ... and its unsafe to run them the wrong way... :O

So the other set of rings are EITHER the isolators, OR the poly top plate retainers...
having said THAT, I think the poly plate retainers and the isolators are one and the same...Looks like you would maybe remove your old stock, rubber isolators from your top plate, then REPLACE them with the two poly "spacers"..??... I would say you would need to talk to Sonoran Steel to verify that.

And here's a thread describing an example of correct orientation of coil springs (just remember the diagram shown is for 1st Gen TUNDRAS...Refer to a FSM specific to your model for the correct diagram/specs, as I've seen the one for '05-'06 Tacomas, and its VERY different from this Tundra one!):

http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/1gen-tundra/227289-2002-tundra-front-coil-spring-alignment/

I cant guarantee that this orientation of the coil springs will cure any clunking noises, or keep the spindle from contacting the springs, since Toyota doesnt explain WHY the coils need to be oriented a certain way, but like I said, I would try to follow whatever diagram is specific to your model, since there HAS to be a good reason Toyota includes these in the FSMs.
On the other hand, those diagrams are for STOCK coil springs for that specific model...NOT aftermarket springs, or springs from another model, that may have differing wrap counts, spring rates, coil diameters, or wire thickness...

 

[austintaco]

Good catch. I was so busy focusing on the top part of the shock, I forgot about the lower spring seats. Well, I ordered the poly plate retainers from Steve today. As usual, he is always a good person to deal with and he's quick to ship. Note to self and others: just order the system from SS and move on. It's much less head ache and you won't have to deal with a spring compressor or taking it somewhere to have the shocks and coils put together.

If all goes well, I'll have these on before we leave for Salt Lake City and Colorado. Stone, thanks for all of the pointers along the way.

 

[Mattm94]

Order your replacement isolators from Wheelers, for a 99-06 tundra, and ditch the top plate spacer from Sonoran Steve. Use the Tundra Isolator, Tacoma Top Plate, and rock on. It's a tight fit into the coil tower, because the isolator has a bigger OD.

I've yet to see Sonoran Steel post up their "Custom Valving Specs", explain how they differ from off the shelf Tundra units, or share their part numbers.

When I ran this setup on our Taco DC, I had very satisfactory results from off the shelf Tundra 99-06 model shocks. I used the center circlip setting, wheeler's tundra coil isolator, and TRD Tundra left and right coils. Part #s are 48131-AF100/090 for the coils.

Same setup is still on our '00 4Runner, with OME 906 (I think) coils and OME shocks in the rear. I didn't get satisfactory service life out of the Bilsteins in the rear, and after 3 sets spewed their guts in less than 15k, said to hell with it and went OME. One set of 5150s, and two sets of yellow HDs. Never had a problem with the fronts.

FWIW

 

[Stone_Blue]

Austintaco, yeah, it took me a few looks at that pic before I realised, "Hey, wait a sec!...those are the 5100 buckets!"...lol

I know you've already ordered your stuff, but I can 2nd Mattm94's opinion with going with isolators from Wheeler's...They had the best price on the hard to locate Tacoma isolators when I had to source them for use on my Tundra. They also ship quick, and their estimates of receive date have been spot on. Good customer service and knowledgeable about Toyotas, too.

Incidentally, here's some pics of the Tacoma and Tundra isolators side-by-side, explaining the slight modding I had to do, that I had posted on a thread:
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/1gen-tundra/229414-ome-bilstein-strut-mount-isolator-question/

 

[austintaco]

Everything is here and ready to go on, but I am just trying to get clarification on the orientation of everything to prevent any rubbing. I did read that the bottom of the open end of the coil should face the frame. Does that sound right? It has to do with the way the coil will bow out one way or the other.
Steve's poly retainers came in today, and they should make it an easier fit for the Tundra coil on the Tacoma top plate.
Steve is looking for the Tacoma instructions now so I can get these dialed in right the first time. However, if anyone has the instructions or know where I might find them online, please let me know. I am trying to get these springs on in the morning before our trip on Saturday.
Once again, Steve was great to work with and got the poly retainer plates here in 2 days from phone call to my door step!