Turbos to replace mufflers

[Epcofabrication]

Saw this today,

:Wow1: http://www.ststurbo.com/toyota_tacoma

Interesting design, thing that scares me is that you plumb an oil line to the back of your truck for the turbo and the airfilter is off by it's self under the truck.

 

[FJLED]

They, ststurbo, have been around for awhile now. Most refer to them as remote mount turbo systems. As you have noted water crossings would be the major concern - not only risk of hydrolock, but typically heat cycling a very hot component (turbo) in cool water isn't a good idea. I don't think it would survive to well in Houston with the heavy rains we get.

 

[Rockcrawler]

I have also heard that they have a fair amount of turbo lag vs. systems mounted closer to the engine in the downpipe.

 

[robert]

That's been the general consensus on several other Tacoma boards too- neat, but not good for a truck that's used as a truck. That and the Tacos use cast parts so you'd have to keep the boost low. Turbos are better for top end power than low end too. If you want more power you'd probably be better off with a URD supercharger kit.

 

[ntsqd]

Consider the total volume of air in the intake plumbing with a system like that and it becomes more of hobby experiment than a viable boost method.

That's been the general consensus on several other Tacoma boards too- neat, but not good for a truck that's used as a truck. That and the Tacos use cast parts so you'd have to keep the boost low. Turbos are better for top end power than low end too. If you want more power you'd probably be better off with a URD supercharger kit.

Cast parts aren't the limiter of boost. The quality of those castings is. Turbo compressor scrolls are castings.
Turbos can build boost from nearly idle. It all depends on the trim of the unit and how much boost is desired.

 

[Deleted member 9101]

Turbos are better for top end power than low end too. If you want more power you'd probably be better off with a URD supercharger kit.

That all depends on the turbo you select and how everything is set up. I have though of doing a similar set up for my Tundra, with the right turbo you wouldn't be producing much "boost" around town and cruising, therefore not dumping fuel...but when you open it up you will be putting down a considerable amount of power.

Besides turbo lag = poor mans traction control

 

[soonenough]

I had a friend with a rear-mount turbo on an LS1 Camaro. The thing produced over 600hp but the lag was insane. He'd floor it from a slow roll, and it was almost like time started to pass very slowly because you were expecting this huge rush and it seemed like it never came (but when it finally did, it was incredible).

Granted, as ntsqd said, the turbo itself has a lot to do with the lag, but all the piping going back and forth to the turbo certainly doesn't help. The target application for this setup is definitely a street truck.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

As far as I'm concerned, rear mounted turbos are for poseurs. It's so compromised, only for people who want to say they have a turbo, but couldn't figure out how to get one under the hood.

That and the Tacos use cast parts so you'd have to keep the boost low.

Not necessarily. My Focus has powdered metal rods, and I'm running 12psi. I've seen boost spikes over 25psi. Boost doesn't kill rods, detonation does.

Turbos are better for top end power than low end too.

Not true. Pull the throttle body pipe off my car, and the turbo is pushing some air right at idle. Full boost by 2800. At no point is it making less torque than stock. A roots blower may have a slight advantage below 2000rpm, but then gets killed up top. You shouldn't be using full throttle below 2000rpm anyway. And the heat load from a roots blower is really hard on an engine.

I have though of doing a similar set up for my Tundra, with the right turbo you wouldn't be producing much "boost" around town and cruising, therefore not dumping fuel...but when you open it up you will be putting down a considerable amount of power.

That's got nothing to do with the turbo. Don't put your foot in it, you won't be letting any boost past the throttle plate, and you won't be burning any extra fuel. And that is NOT the type of power delivery you would want for off-roading in any case.

Besides turbo lag = poor mans traction control

No. The throttle pedal is poor mans traction control. Turbo lag is the poor man's powertrain grenade.

I had a friend with a rear-mount turbo on an LS1 Camaro. The thing produced over 600hp but the lag was insane. He'd floor it from a slow roll, and it was almost like time started to pass very slowly because you were expecting this huge rush and it seemed like it never came (but when it finally did, it was incredible).

That's how I felt about my WRX. It was aweful, and the turbo was under the hood. I can't even imagine how bad these rear mounted setups are!

Consider the total volume of air in the intake plumbing with a system like that and it becomes more of hobby experiment than a viable boost method.

That's a big part of the reason I went with an Air/Water intercooler on mine. Very low intake charge volume.

 

[Deleted member 9101]

And that is NOT the type of power delivery you would want for off-roading in any case.

Yeeeah about that, not all of us are into off roading our trucks...lol. The closest thing mine ever sees to "off road"is the dirt roads in a state camp ground...lol

As for boost on stock internals, I ran 8 PSI on a Honda D-16 with no problems years ago.

 

[ntsqd]

Not true. Pull the throttle body pipe off my car, and the turbo is pushing some air right at idle.

This reminded me of an experience that I had about 12 years ago. Little, tiny turbo (T02?) on a VW 1600cc diesel. I had the air filter off while doing some maintenance (K&N) and happened to have it idling while did some other work under the hood. I happened to wave the red rag that was in my hand near the air intake. Remember, this is only a 1600cc engine and it was only idling. That intake wanted that rag sooo badly that it was ALL that I could do to hang onto it and pull it away. :Wow1:

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Yeeeah about that, not all of us are into off roading our trucks...lol. The closest thing mine ever sees to "off road"is the dirt roads in a state camp ground...lol

Why would anybody want that power delivery on any vehicle on any road?

"I need to merge into that space! Hold on, wait for it, wait for it..." "I'm going to impress her, wait for it, wait for it...."

Not to mention, a good turbo setup driven reasonably will actually improve MPG. I bet the remote setups actually hurt, since you've got all the restriction created by the impeller, but you've lost all your heat.

As for boost on stock internals, I ran 8 PSI on a Honda D-16 with no problems years ago.

Probably way stronger rods on that thing than my Zetec.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

As for improving the gas mileage, yeah..most people don't realize that HP is a measure of an engines efficiency.

Sorry, but no. Wild cams increase horsepower, and kill efficiency. Just as one example.

A turbo increases the volumetric efficiency of a motor,

No, not really. What it does do, if you have the proper turbo, is it takes waste heat from the exhaust stream, and uses it to create positive work during the intake stroke. To achieve this, it has to be operating above it's crossover point. The point where it's making more boost than backpressure. I call it "supercruise", no idea on the official term for it. In my WRX, I used to be able to cruise at 100mph, in boost but still running closed loop stoich, getting the same milage as I did at 60mph.

 

[Deleted member 9101]

Sorry, but no. Wild cams increase horsepower, and kill efficiency. Just as one example.



No, not really. What it does do, if you have the proper turbo, is it takes waste heat from the exhaust stream, and uses it to create positive work during the intake stroke. To achieve this, it has to be operating above it's crossover point. The point where it's making more boost than backpressure. I call it "supercruise", no idea on the official term for it. In my WRX, I used to be able to cruise at 100mph, in boost but still running closed loop stoich, getting the same milage as I did at 60mph.

If I remember right, its the duration and lobe separation that kills your MPG, not lift?

As for super cruise..thats just nuts...more reasons for me to do it...lol

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Correct, it's the valve overlap really, that does it, which is driven by duration and seperation.

 

[J-man]

I'm almost done with my turbo setup on my 2000 4runner v6 4x4 5spd - heres a couple teaser shots - im about 3 weeks from dropping the motor back in. Ive used a Doug Thorley header for the drivers side, and made my own crossover and turbo manifold myself - space is really tight in there. Turbo is a T04E 50 trim, p-trim turbine. Boost will be 10-12psi, being fueled by urd's port fueler, and a mapecu2 to control fuel/timing/etc... Should be putting down 350hp on my stock motor when im done with it. Its at ceramic coating now....

Correct, it's the valve overlap really, that does it, which is driven by duration and seperation.