Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD)

[Digital Nomad]

It sounds like many (most/all?) 2008 diesel powered trucks sold in the U.S. require the new Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) fuel that is now available across the country. This change is designed to reduce emissions and I'm sure it a good thing for the environment. Availability of the fuel in the U.S. and Canada shouldn't be a problem... but it might be very difficult (if not impossible with the exception of U.S. border towns) to find the required fuel in countries such as Mexico.

So, that begs a few questions:

1) Does anyone know where I can find a list of which countries offer ULSD fuels?

2) What would happen if a vehicle that requires ULSD was ran on old-style diesel while being used outside of the U.S. (only because ULSD was not available)? It sounds like the vehicles might have a particulate filter that would be one problem... but could I just change the filter more frequently, or would be it a very bad idea to run it on non ULSD?

3) Can brand new vehicles that do not require the ULSD fuel still be imported into the U.S. so I can base an expedition vehicle on one... or will I have to limit any imported vehicles to pre-2008's, or ones that require ULSD?

4) Does this make pre-2008 diesels essential for multi-country expeditions where diesel fuel is used?

I haven't been able to find enough information on-line to make me confident in my purchasing decision... sure I can keep it simple and purchase a pre-2008 model, but that would severely limit my choices, so I only want to do that if I know it's really necessary.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

I am not 100% up on it but many countries run ULSD particularly industrialized. We are one of the last to switch. That said in some 3rd world countries it could be an issue. The story in the current expeditions section of the Brits with the 300Tdi Rover (The Wolf) is a perfect example. The poor quality fuel also made them change the fuel filters more often.

The big thing is ULSD allowed for catalyst chambers -- you are correct. Any diesel can run ULSD but this is not always the case opposite. I would simply check with the manufacturer. Unfortunately these are the compromises that need to be made for clean air and reduced smog from diesel engines.

 

[DaveInDenver]

1) Does anyone know where I can find a list of which countries offer ULSD fuels?

I think 15PPM (Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel) diesel is what's already available in most of Europe and Asia. The upside of that is we might actually start to see some of the diesel engines available in Asian and European cars. The downside is that diesel that is available outside the first world is probably not going to be ULSD, a lot like US & Canadian gasoline compared to parts of Mexico. But other than emissions and performance modification, a diesel engine itself probably will burn whatever you dump in the tank. I wonder if there are ways to work around the emissions systems?

2) What would happen if a vehicle that requires ULSD was ran on old-style diesel while being used outside of the U.S. (only because ULSD was not available)? It sounds like the vehicles might have a particulate filter that would be one problem... but could I just change the filter more frequently, or would be it a very bad idea to run it on non ULSD?

Good question. I dunno how running 500PPM (Low Sulfur Diesel) diesel in an ULSD will affect things, but I suspect it won't be good for the emissions system and the like. But you can run the ULSD in current engines designed for LSD AFAIK.

3) Can brand new vehicles that do not require the ULSD fuel still be imported into the U.S. so I can base an expedition vehicle on one... or will I have to limit any imported vehicles to pre-2008's, or ones that require ULSD?

Doubt it. By 2010 all on road diesel engines will have to run ULSD and by 2014 every single diesel (i.e. trains, off highway, construction) will have to run ULSD.

4) Does this make pre-2008 diesels essential for multi-country expeditions where diesel fuel is used?

Dunno.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Also since about '96-'98 in the US most diesels are electronically controlled. Some of these might have issues with some of the crap fuel out there, but most are probably designed to be able to run at least for semi-limited quantities of time (thousands of miles probably OK) on crap fuels, particularly in truck applications. The thing that kills pumps is water in the fuel (which can be removed with adequate water separators/filters) and strain on the mechanical/electrical parts (pumps) via restriction of fuel. IE - clogged and slightly clogged filters. The guys who replace their fuel filters every other oil change are the smart ones. Expensive though. I sure had to replace a lot of filters when I first started messing with biofuels.

Anyway, the way the newest electronic diesels work is just like a gas engine most or less. There are big differences (common rail and super high injection pressures) but the mechanics are the same, o2 sensors, knock sensor, temp sensor, possibly some other sensors, but they all feed to the computer, which controls fuel delivery and timing to control it. You would want to check but my initial guess is no difference or sensors related to the catalyst chamber but you can visually tell. If there is a wire or sensor there, or down stream, then it might be an issue. There are good odds you can simply remove the chamber (probably technically illegal in the states) and be OK.

It is amazing how remarkably reliable diesel fuel components are considering all the functions they do in a single unit. Particularly mechanical injection components..

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Also any manufacturer should have a specific section in their manuals about ULSD.

 

[DaveInDenver]

There are good odds you can simply remove the chamber (probably technically illegal in the states) and be OK.

Pretty much what I would have figured, not knowing squat.

 

[Blair G]

Also since about '96-'98 in the US most diesels are electronically controlled. Some of these might have issues with some of the crap fuel out there, but most are probably designed to be able to run at least for semi-limited quantities of time (thousands of miles probably OK) on crap fuels, particularly in truck applications. The thing that kills pumps is water in the fuel (which can be removed with adequate water separators/filters) and strain on the mechanical/electrical parts (pumps) via restriction of fuel. IE - clogged and slightly clogged filters. The guys who replace their fuel filters every other oil change are the smart ones. Expensive though. I sure had to replace a lot of filters when I first started messing with biofuels.

Anyway, the way the newest electronic diesels work is just like a gas engine most or less. There are big differences (common rail and super high injection pressures) but the mechanics are the same, o2 sensors, knock sensor, temp sensor, possibly some other sensors, but they all feed to the computer, which controls fuel delivery and timing to control it. You would want to check but my initial guess is no difference or sensors related to the catalyst chamber but you can visually tell. If there is a wire or sensor there, or down stream, then it might be an issue. There are good odds you can simply remove the chamber (probably technically illegal in the states) and be OK.

It is amazing how remarkably reliable diesel fuel components are considering all the functions they do in a single unit. Particularly mechanical injection components..

While I am sure removing the stuff will be figured out one day. Most of the electronics and pollution control stuff will be needed (at least in California) There will be smog requirements in California in the near future. Also, for most of the clean burning Diesels out there (large motors) they depend on a regeneration cycle to clean (burn) out the captured soot. Idle increases when a level of back pressure is sensed. The blu-tec system injects Uria into the exhaust so the catylitic convector can better do its job. On an interesting side note, Honda has come out with a new system that will produce its own ammonia and will be selling some sort of diesel powered car/truck in the near future,
The other issue of ULSD is the lack of lubricity. THis will probably effect the older diesels that require the old diesel for lubrication of the pumps. Of course, the after market has plenty of additives to compensate for that. Kind of defeats the purpose I guess but what other options are there?

Blair

 

[haven]

2007 diesel emissions equipment

Generally, engine manufacturers are meeting the 2007 rules with a diesel particulate filter and a second catalytic converter.

Some manufacturers clean out the particulate filter as needed by periodically enriching the fuel mixture and igniting it in the filter to burn it clean. This sounds fine if the process is properly controlled (and your truck is not sitting on the grass when the process starts).

Mercedes takes a different approach. The diesel particulate filter for the diesel Sprinter is good for a minimum of 90,000 miles, maybe longer, without any cleaning cycle. When inspection shows the filter needs to be changed, the owner needs to pony up **$1600** for a new one. Yikes!

I think the EPA requires a warranty of 80,000 miles for emissions equipment. For someone using the truck for work, that milestone might pass in less than a year.

The new particulate filter and extra catalyst will be damaged by the use of high sulfur fuel. EPA has mandated a switch to low sulfur diesel for light and medium trucks now, and for heavy and off-road trucks in a couple of years.

Diesel stations in USA and Canada have upgraded to the new low sulfur already. The problem comes when you take your new diesel truck south of the border. Mexico has pledged to make low sulfur fuel available throughtout the country by the end of 2008, but it remains to be seen if they can meet this ambitious schedule.

Argentina and Brasil will try to meet low sulfur targets by using biodiesel. Only Chile seems to be adding refinery capacity for low sulfur diesel. Other countries in Central America and northern South America have no plans to replace their high sulfur diesel.

Today it appears that owners of 2007 diesel trucks who want to travel to Central or South America have two options:

1. remove the expensive emissions control systems before departing (illegal under current EPA rules), or

2. pay several thousand dollars to replace the particulate filter and secondary catalyst when they return.

Chip Haven

 

[dhackney]

owners of 2007 diesel trucks

Chip,

Didn't you mean 2008 model year diesel trucks?

On a related topic, I had a long and interesting conversation with the owner of the Mitsu dealership where we bought our truck today.

He related that the North American truck industry anticipated a huge run on 2007 model year trucks to avoid all of the new ULSD equipment on the 2008 models. Consequently the industry overbuilt, by an order of up to 50%, of historical unit levels.

As it turned out, truck frieght dropped up to 20% this year as major retailers such as Home Depot and Lowes pulled down inventory levels. Trucks stopped selling just as the huge truck inventories were hitting the lots.

According to the dealership owner, if you want a deal on a 2007 (pre-ULSD) model diesel truck in the US, they are out there.

Doug

 

[Digital Nomad]

Dave Said: But other than emissions and performance modification, a diesel engine itself probably will burn whatever you dump in the tank. I wonder if there are ways to work around the emissions systems?

I'd rather keep the vehicle street legal in the U.S. and modifying emissions systems is usually a no no in that area.​

Thanks for all the details Chip... that was very helpful.

Doug, when you talk about getting deals on 2007 diesel trucks, are you talking about semi trucks, or medium duty pickup trucks. In other words, would this possibly include Ford F-550's?

Also, Doug, after looking at your site, I have another question... what are you using for your internet access on your expedition vehicle?

 

[charlieaarons]

You can still get new 2006 Unimog U500s, Quality Equipment Sales in Anchorage can get them. Call 907-349-6215, ask for Ray Belanger.
If you are thinking about service/parts outside of North America and you need more GVW than a FG, a U500 is IT here in the US market.
As far as internet, I'm going to use a GSM smart phone when on the cell grid and an Inmarsat Nera system when off, as soon as they put up their 3rd satellite which will cover Alaska, Yukon and eastern Australia. I think Doug has a Nera system.
If you buy an '06 F550 you'll be stuck with the trouble prone 6.0 Powerstroke. Everybody is hoping the 6.4 will be better but it is set up for ULSD.

Charlie

(no connection....)

 

[dhackney]

I'd rather keep the vehicle street legal in the U.S. and modifying emissions systems is usually a no no in that area.

IMO, likely to become very rigidly enforced in the coming years as vehicle emissions becomes even more a part of the push to limit carbon load.

Doug, when you talk about getting deals on 2007 diesel trucks, are you talking about semi trucks, or medium duty pickup trucks. In other words, would this possibly include Ford F-550's?

The conversation I had related to medium duty and class 7/8 (cement truck, semi-tractor, etc. type) trucks. I can't speak to the relatively mass market Big Three platforms, they were not part of the conversation.

Also, Doug, after looking at your site, I have another question... what are you using for your internet access on your expedition vehicle?

Sorry for taking this Off Topic.

In ranking by preferred use/capability/cost:
1. Internet cafes. As widespread outside this country as Starbucks are here. In the US we are so wealthy we can afford our own computers and our own Internet access so they are very rare here. Usually incredibly inexpensive overseas, but you may be sharing a single 32k dial up modem with five teenagers.
2. Local country GSM G3 phone. We buy local market SIM cards for our unlocked GSM G3 phone and use that whenever we have coverage.
3. Thrane & Thrane / Nera WorldPro terminal. It uses the Inmarsat BGAN constellation. DSL type speeds worldwide. Regular IP or streaming rates for data, also has phone service. About $6.50 per megabyte, so you don't surf the web with it. About $1 per minute for phone service. Primarily for extended stays in very remote areas when we simply can't sleep unless we make a critical post to ExPo.
4. Iridium sat phone. Very low data rates, bordering on ridiculous, so this would be used for data only in extreme circumstances. About $1 per minute.
5. Skymate. Uses the ORBCOMM constellation. Global except for eastern OZ, NZ and SE Pacific. Low data rate system. Data only, no voice. Good for short text messages. Very low cost system for simple "we're OK" and location text updates to a mailing list. Oriented to the sailing community so includes global weather forecast download capability. Also has a nifty little weblog capability, which I doubt we will use but is nice for the primary target audience. Also has system telemetry capability so you can do remote monitoring of voltage, switch state, etc.

 

[Bob_Sheaves]

Additional info....

Generally, engine manufacturers are meeting the 2007 rules with a diesel particulate filter and a second catalytic converter.

Except CAT with it's ACERT system which is a lot more involved. Just a sidebar poiece of info.

Some manufacturers clean out the particulate filter as needed by periodically enriching the fuel mixture and igniting it in the filter to burn it clean. This sounds fine if the process is properly controlled (and your truck is not sitting on the grass when the process starts).

Mercedes takes a different approach. The diesel particulate filter for the diesel Sprinter is good for a minimum of 90,000 miles, maybe longer, without any cleaning cycle. When inspection shows the filter needs to be changed, the owner needs to pony up **$1600** for a new one. Yikes!

I think the EPA requires a warranty of 80,000 miles for emissions equipment. For someone using the truck for work, that milestone might pass in less than a year.

EPA requires 100K miles for all emissions equipment on light duty vehicles (under 8500GVW).

The new particulate filter and extra catalyst will be damaged by the use of high sulfur fuel. EPA has mandated a switch to low sulfur diesel for light and medium trucks now, and for heavy and off-road trucks in a couple of years.

January 1, 2007 was the changeover date. All fuel stops in the US are supposed to have only USLD as of then.

I should have been more specific- 07 emissions engines are only allowed to run the USLD, older engines MAY run either, although there can be problems with USLD in non-07 engines. Sorry for any confusion.

Diesel stations in USA and Canada have upgraded to the new low sulfur already. The problem comes when you take your new diesel truck south of the border. Mexico has pledged to make low sulfur fuel available throughtout the country by the end of 2008, but it remains to be seen if they can meet this ambitious schedule.

Argentina and Brasil will try to meet low sulfur targets by using biodiesel. Only Chile seems to be adding refinery capacity for low sulfur diesel. Other countries in Central America and northern South America have no plans to replace their high sulfur diesel.

B100 meets the ULSD specs if manufactured to ASTM standards.

Today it appears that owners of 2007 diesel trucks who want to travel to Central or South America have two options:

1. remove the expensive emissions control systems before departing (illegal under current EPA rules), or

Not actually unlawful, IF the truck is removed from the US within 30 days and has a "pass" (actually an EPA form stating the vehicle is going to be exported).

2. pay several thousand dollars to replace the particulate filter and secondary catalyst when they return.

Chip Haven

Nice information....

Best regards,

Bob Sheaves
CEO
catNET Incorporated
http://www.catnetsolutions.com

 

[gary in ohio]

Finding the right diesel might be fun. I work in a big city but live out in the rural area. In town the pumps are running ULSD with a warning about using it in older vehicles. Out in the country the are using the non ulsd with a big warning that you cant (against the law) use this fuel in 2007 or later vehicles. So Make sure you check the pumps.

The truck stops along my drive home have two sets of diesel pumps, truck pumps with the old diesel and the car fuel isles have the USLD in it. I Saw a number of BP stations going to split diesel as well.

 

[jayshapiro]

ULSD Trucks in non-ULSD Countries

I've been calling around to the manufacturers for the past couple of weeks to try to figure this one out for our RTW F-650 eco-roamer vehicle.

Primary concern (as highighted by several people here) is that in many parts of the world that we drive through we are only going to find LSD (at best)

I called: Cat, Cummins, Ford & GM to try to get their "official" line on what would happen if we take a 2008 emmissions vehicle into these environments.

Some very interesting responses:

Cummins (6.4L 325hp) said: 'There is much more different on these engines than just the particulate filter. The injectors, fuel lines, pump, etc. have all been changed to deal with the lower viscosity ULSD, and so using LSD fuel will certainly damage the engine." They have no suggestions and were generally unhelpful.

CAT (C7 - 300hp) said: 'The CAT ACERT system is much more than just a filter, and cannot be simply removed.' -- However, they did admit that they sell the C7 engine around the world, in many non-ULSD countries, so clearly there is a way to run it. They had no idea, and said that legally (due to EPA) they couldn't help me to find out. Very unhelpful.

FORD & GM were useless and after several calls and lots of transfers I could never find anyone who actually knew what I was talking about.

Avi Meyers at Unicat says: he has had similar conversations with International (who they use) and feels confident that he can just remove the emissions filters when leaving the country and live with the warning light on the dashboard.

LASTLY, I haven't been able to get a single straight answer on what happens when you use a ULSD 2008 engine with Bio-Diesel.

In the end, we've given up and decided to by a slightly used 2006 / 2007 truck as the base for the vehicle. We looked around for "new" 2007 pre-emissions vehicles, but they all seem to be gone in our specifications.

Hope that helps, I'd love to hear a better answer if anyone ever finds out the truth...

Cheers,
Jay.