unURBAN Adventures - Alaska to Argentina to AFRICA!

[unURBAN]

Panama City

Our main reason to go to Panama City was to arrange the shipping of the Patrol around the Darien Gap. Before arriving in the City we got an email from Nordsued and they had got a quote for a 40 foot high cube container, and we decided to share the container with them. In Panama we stayed with Panama Passage and it was great to meet up with overlander's that we had met before and to meet others for the first time.

People were traveling both north and south so we had some good days exchanging information, tips about good places to go to, and of course shipping info. We had all got different quotes from the same shipping agents and it turned out that we all had different experiences because of different vehicles, sizes, and shipping methods. Here is a video from Adventurouspirits from their and PanAm Notes loading into a container. Luckily the Patrol and the Land Rover is smaller and we therefore had a bit more space around our vehicles.

Compared to a normal border crossing shipping a vehicle involves more paper work, but we were able to handle it all our self. Our vehicle is now in a container in the harbor waiting for the ship.

Besides arranging shipping we did a little bit of sightseeing in Panama City. The Miraflores Locks at the Panama Canal is a must see when you are in Panama.

It was interesting to see the big ships being lifted up in the Locks to be able to pass through from the Pacific to the Caribbean Sea. In the museum at the Locks we learned that Panama is well suited to host the canal because it get so much rain that it is no problem to run 14.000 ships through the Locks and the canal every year. And talking about rain, we had our share of it. During our 9 days stay in the city we had rain every day and there was some really heavy showers.

This is from our drive on the Causeway and afterwards some streets were flooded.

Casco Viejo was interesting to walk through with some nicely renovated buildings and others that were still just ruins.

We were told that when we walked down to the Casco Viejo we should follow the Pedestrian street and not go to much to the left or right because then we would end up in the neighborhood of Santa Ana or Curundu.

Some of our traveling friends ended up walking in Curundu looking for a hardware store, and they were stopped by a police man that pulled them into a store. There he called them a police escort that drove them the remaining 300 meters to the store. One police man came with them into the store and two were standing guard outside. They bought the things they needed and was driven down to the pedestrian street where they could walk safely back home.

We did not see much of Panama, our focus was on shipping the car to Colombia and continue our drive south. The shipping had been talked about so often and been on our minds for a long time and it will be great to have done. Panama kind of feels like a half-way point in our trip, especially since we have to ship the car, it is the end of Central America, and the journey will start again in the north of South America. Colombia here we come!

E&M

 

[RMP&O]

Great stuff!!

I will never drive the Darien but it sure will be cool the day I get down there and get a picture of my truck next to the Darien Gap sign!

Oh and when I was in Casco Viejo in February....I was going to drive down this tiny little street but didn't know if it was a dead end or what. So I get out of my truck to walk down and check it out. I feel something hit me in the arm, then again in the foot. I am like huh! I look around and up to see if some kids were just dropping pebbles on me. Nope not the case, turned out to be the building falling apart and pieces of it were falling on me! I got in my truck and moved it quickly!!

Cartagena is an awesome place. Spend at least a few days there. I also suggest a drive north of the city to the mud volcano. Well worth the trip and a dip in the mud is pretty much a must in my book. If you have time to kill in Cartagena a boat ride out to the Rosario Islands is very nice. You can also stay the night out there and will pretty much have a whole island to yourself!

You are going to see a ton of Patrols in Colombia. In paticular in Cartagena. I have a picture from Catragena from my last trip there, no less than 10 classic Patrols on one street corner at once! They are very common as taxis in Cartagena.

If you are headed to Bogota I have some contacts there for friends of mine that are also Patrol lovers. Just pm me and I will send you their details. My friend Hector has something like 4 Patrols in his driveway!

cheers

 

[jpvm]

Great shots Espen !!! Cool sightseeings, beautiful countries , cool places, great Patrol adventure , great Y61 :victory:

 

[unURBAN]

Shipping from Panama

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I guess this is the first real crux, so to speak, in our travels. However, quite a few travelers before us have managed to cross the Darian Gap either on a Ro/Ro ship or in a container, so we thought it couldn't be too complicated. And it isn't! There is a little bit of work to it, of course, but when you book space with a shipping agent, they will help you with at least some of the details.
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So here is the story of our second overland travel shipping. It starts with an email from www.nordsued.ch that said they got a quote from Eric Hansen in Seaboard for a 40 ft high cube container. The quote was 2210 USD for the container, and a 40 ft would easily let us fit both our Nissan Patrol and their Land Rover Defender 110. Seaboard is one of the big shipping companies, and they have a good reputation. I made sure to verify this with some friends from my time in the shipping business, so after comparing a couple of different quotes we booked the container with Seaboard. The booking gave us one document per vehicle (per cargo unit in the container), and a booking confirmation document for the container (including a description of what is inside). Note that if you i.e. take of your roof rack and want to put this in the container next to the vehicles, this requires a separate booking document (Bill of Lading) for this “cargo unit”.
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And then we were off for the paper mill run! The first thing you have to take care of is to get an official paper from the Policia Nacional which proofs that you don't have any pending traffic tickets or other issues in Panama involving your vehicle. You show up at a police inspection point at 10 in the morning (inspection on weekdays), bringing copies of passport, vehicle entry stamp in your passport, title and registration, and the Panamanian temporary vehicle permit. An officer will check that the papers are correct, check your vehicle VIN number, and then bring the copies to the Police Secretary General. Show up a little earlier and pop the hood as a signal of wanting service.
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Here are the Landcruiser of our friends, Toyotours.com, being checked. And make sure when you are crossing the border into Panama that ALL DETAILS in the vehicle permit is correct. The inspector found that two numbers in the VIN number were switched around, and tey had to go to a customs office in town to have the papers corrected. Fortunately, our vehicle permit was correct.
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The Secretary General is in another office nearby (Policia Nacional, Ministerio de Gobierno y Justicia). These two offices are just across the highway from each other, but it can be a little tricky to drive from one to the other. But you have plenty of time (we went shopping) before you have to show up at this place, as the papers aren't processed until half past two in the afternoon (the same afternoon). Bring the originals and remember to wear trousers and shoes. This is a public office and you are NOT allowed in wearing shorts or sandals. This could also be the case for the customs offices (we didn't try it out), and it is in general considered inappropriate to visit offices in shorts and sandals. If you stay at www.panamapassage.com this office is in walking distance, and you don't need to bring the vehicle.
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Anyway, with this paper, together with the booking papers, and, of course, the “normal” pile of copies (passport, vehicle title and registration, temporary vehicle permit), we went to the customs office at the port. This was on the same day as we were loading the container. The Aduana gave us two identical stacks of papers. First page was a new vehicle permit form (looks like the import permit, but saying “salida” (leaving) on the top of the page).The stack also included the above mentioned copies, all now with a customs stamp.
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From here we went back to the shipping agent (Seaboard's port agent) to get the “bill” for the shipping and loading, and proceeded to the local bank to pay. We had been told to bring cash (as this is much faster than dealing with transfers and credit cards). The bank is one and a half block from the agent's office, so that was quick and easy. With the receipt in hand, we got the rest of the papers sorted at the shipping office. For the whole day we experienced only one small hickcup, which was a printer (for a “sticker”, but it didn't look much like a sticker when we got it) that froze and wouldn't start again before lunch.
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On our way out for lunch, a customs guy came over and had a brief inspection of the vehicles. Excellent! One more thing done! And then we went for lunch…
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After a pizza at a local Pizza Hut, we went back to the office and printed the “sticker” (didn't look like one&#8230. For some reason this is not included in the “handling costs”, and we had to pay 5,35 USD. Then Senor Felix Cardenas from Seaboard accompanied us out the door and around a corner with all our documents. The customs office, agricultural office, and the Port Company (and Seaboard) are all conveniently located in the same building at the Christobal Port. We stopped first at Customs, then got a stamp from Agricultural, and lastly paid for “port security” at the Port Company window. The latter was apparently not included in the handling costs, and we had to pay 29 USD for two cars and one container. After this we drove into the container area of the port. Following some driving instructions from Felix, we found the loading area and our container.
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In the port, on our way to the loading area.
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Another visual inspection to check the vehicles for existing damages was performed by port staff, and we got a receipt for this. After some waiting for the lashing crew, we were allowed to drive the cars in ourselves.
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The port crew lashed the cargo, locked the door, and sealed the container.
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So! The process itself is not really that complicated, but DO schedule in a FULL day at the port as Things Take Time! Count on a lot of waiting, and taking out a book or something doesn't always feel appropriate. Fold your hands, lean back in the uncomfortable chair, and think about all the adventures to come in South America…
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List of all the documents you need, and GPS coordinates for the offices on unURBAN.no
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Next chapter will be written in Cartagena, Colombia, as we try to get our Patrol out of the container and through customs. More soon.
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E&M

 

[Bergum]

Hmmm.
Down to one box on the roof now.
Is it so hot down there, that you don't need any clothings....

 

[unURBAN]

Hmmm.
Down to one box on the roof now.
Is it so hot down there, that you don't need any clothings....

Started with 4 Zarges boxes, 3 on the roof and 1 in the back together with some plastic boxes.

First one went home when we flew home for a break last summer after about 3 months on the road. Mainly skiing equipment.

The two next ones were sent home when our family came over to visit in Yucatan a couple of months ago. There went the climbing eqipment and some of the montaineering stuff. We are running a little bit short on time, so the big three weeks mountaineering adventures are canceled.. But we still have a mountain tent and our hiking boots!

But we have sent home more than 150 kilos of gear since we started (and we threw away some more..). Pack light!!!

E&M

 

[unURBAN]

Shipping to Cartagena in Colombia

How to get a vehicle out of a container and through customs in Cartagena, Colombia.
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We had read numerous blogs about how this should work. And we made it, but with a few twists that added quite a few hours to our process. First surprise: in several blogs we have read that it is possible to get the temporary vehicle permit and the insurance before the customs inspection. This was not so. There could have been a change in procedures, or it could be that our port (there are a couple of them) had different routines. However, when you get to Cartagena and your ship has left port in Colon, you can get the original Bill of Lading. The Bill of Lading you get from the shipping agents office. In our case (Seaboard) this office was located at the port Muelle el Bosque (main entrance is inside the port area and requires entry passes, but there is also a window about 100 meters to the left of the port entrance).
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The Bill of Lading, with copies of your vehicle title and registration, your passport and the entry stamp, you can go to the DIAN (customs) office in Manga to register for a customs inspection. This basically means to hand in your copies. When this is done, go back to Cartagena and enjoy the city until the ship is has arrived, and you have confirmed with the shipping agent that your vehicle is unloaded (call, don't bother to go back to the office at the port).
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It is no use going back to the port before you are absolutely sure that the vehicle is off the ship. And from there things can be quite fast. Can be…. First, find out exactly where your vehicle/container is. This information is available at the Operations Office at the port. You have to register at the entrance, and you leave your passport there in exchange for a key card. We heard about other ports in Cartagena that needed proof on personal insurance before letting people into the port, but not so at Muelle el Bosque. However, the port has two different “safety levels”, and you need to ask for permission to the Operations Office which is in the “inner zone”. We first asked to see the Documentation Office which is in the first zone, and we had to go back to change the key card.

The Operations office gave us the name of the person in charge in the area where our container would be, and we walked over and found the guy and our container. Here we were actually asked if we wanted to open the container immediately before we had found the customs inspector, but we refused this offer. We are not sure if that would have been a problem, but we wanted to have the inspector there in case something was wrong or happened. When we knew our container was there and looked unharmed, we went to the Documentation Office and got a “Factura de Venta” which is the port fee including inspections. We paid about 215 000 pesos per vehicle. Keep the receipt for the Exit documents later in the process.
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Anyway! The key to this whole process is to get hold of the Customs (DIAN) Inspector. We were told that this guy (and at Muelle El Bosque it is only one guy) would be at a certain office in the port at 0800 and at 1400 hours every day. This was not so. Fortunately we were able to locate the guy after 3 hours of asking around at the port (The port's Document Office was helpful). He even had our papers from the DIAN office in Manga. You have to take the inspector to your vehicle/container, and as soon as the inspector had had a look at the opening of the container, he told us to show up at the DIAN office in Manga to pick up the final vehicle permit (he went back there to process our papers). There was no “real” inspection of the vehicle.
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And the Land Rover
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Toyotours.com was too high for a container and had to ship their LC on a flat-rack.
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With the vehicles out of the container, we drove over and parked them next to the Seaboard office (inside the port area). This was just before lunch, and we would have to wait until 1400 as all official offices are closed between 1200 and 1400. At 1400 we went to the DIAN office to pick up the permit, and we had the name of the person that held them. But this person was nowhere to be found… After waiting for 45 minutes, we demanded to speak with someone else that could help us with the vehicle permit. A woman took us over to the first person's desk and gave us the permits laying there waiting for us.
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Before going back to the port, we took a taxi back to the city center, and to the HBL Seguros office in Pasaje de la Moneda. Here we bought the mandatory insurance for Colombia (this insurance was not necessary for leaving the port, though&#8230. The shortest period of time you are allowed to purchase is three months. Later we have heard rumors about someone that bought only one month of insurance, but have not been able to confirm this. But it could be worth asking (or even bargaining). Three months is about 60-70 USD. It cost more for more cylinders, and it is also slightly more expensive if your vehicle is older than 9 years.
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With our Colombian insurance we went back to the port. This time we needed the port exit permit, and this you get at the Documentation Office. Remember to bring the receipt of paid port fees (or just pay this when you get here for the exit permit). Here they said something about a missing release document from DIAN, but we told them that going back to DIAN was out of the question. They gave us the exit permit.
Last stop at the port is a second visit to the Operations Office. While we were at the DIAN office in Manga and the HBL Seguros office in town, someone in the port company had had a visual inspection of the vehicles. It is basically the equivalent of the visual inspection from the port company in Colon, Panama, to check if there are any damages to the car. They write everything into the computer (takes at least 10 minutes per car), and you sign the papers saying the car is in the same condition as when you drove into the container. A stamp in the exit form, and you are good to go. A security officer at the gate checked the VIN number, and we drove out.
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Before leaving the port, remember to go back to the entrance (park the car at the exit gate, and walk back along a one way street for about 100 meters) and get your passport. And if you have done your homework, you should have updated maps on your GPS (which you took out of the car and brought with you to find the different offices..?) of Cartagena and Colombia. The traffic here is significantly more chaotic than in any of the Central American countries. We parked the vehicles at a parking lot in town around seven o'clock and went straight for a beer!
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Conclusions
Arranging for the shipping isn't really that complicated. The total cost was about 1250 USD per vehicle in a 40 ft container (two standard size cars: a Nissan Patrol and a Land Rover Defender 110. Plenty of space, could probably have fitted a bike in there as well), and all port fees in BOTH ends are included. I've also heard about cheaper options, but I wanted to ship with a company and an agent that I knew had a good reputation. We got a quote directly from Seaboard Marine Panama via Mr. Eric Hansen (ehansen@seaboardmarinepanama.com), and we had English speaking representatives at both sides, and at the port in Colon. You are allowed into the port, to drive your vehicle into the container, to keep your keys, and to drive your vehicle out of the container in Cartagena. I would definitely recommend this option for shipping. The booking is done via email, and you then need a couple of days to sort papers out in Panama City and Colon, and to load the container. Our ship left three (they said two..) days later, and the container was on the ground in Cartagena two days after that. With some patience you can easily do the all necessary steps yourself. There will probably be some frustrating moments, but this is part of the experience of overlanding. And it will probably also happen if you use helpers... And don't stress getting to Cartagena, you do have time to go island hopping in San Blas!
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More pictures, list of papers needed, GPS coordinates, and more on unURBAN.no -> Border Crossings
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In the next post we are on the road in Colombia!!
E&M

 

[RMP&O]

Really nice E&M!!

Your thread here, the blog @ unurban.no and the pictures on flickr are simply outstanding! I just spent an hour on flickr and on your blog checking it all out. Awesome, really awesome! Just looking at the pictures on flickr is sweet, almost no words needed to follow you guys but your write ups are great too.

And as per your blog post from at my place.....

http://blog.unurban.no/#post27

Any time you want to come back to ski or whatever you are welcome at my place!

 

[unURBAN]

Really nice E&M!!

Your thread here, the blog @ unurban.no and the pictures on flickr are simply outstanding! I just spent an hour on flickr and on your blog checking it all out. Awesome, really awesome! Just looking at the pictures on flickr is sweet, almost no words needed to follow you guys but your write ups are great too.

And as per your blog post from at my place.....

http://blog.unurban.no/#post27

Any time you want to come back to ski or whatever you are welcome at my place!

Thank you for nice comments.

We might have to take you up on that offer since we have heard that skiing should be great in your area!! Just have to go home first to pick up the skiing equipment since we sent it back to Norway.

Malin

 

[unURBAN]

Cartageana and the Caribbean Coast

After driving the Patrol into a container in Colón we were again backpackers, and it was strange after being on the road with a vehicle for more than a year. The final ride on Central American roads was in Lotti, Franc and Isabelle’s VW. First time we meet them on this trip was in Anaheim, LA, and since then we have meet up every now and then along the road. Lotti had six passengers on the way to the airport this day, Andrea and Georg where on the same flight as us and they also got a ride.

Thanks Isabelle, Franc, and Lotti for the good times on the road. Lotti is now being shipped home to Europe from Panama.

It was a short and nice flight to Cartagena in Colombia. Customs and immigration was no problem, and we were officially in South America. Since we were without our home we stayed in a hostel in the old city of Cartagena.

It is a really nice city center to explore on foot. Cartagena was founded by the Spanish in 1533 and became the main port on the Caribbean coast. Because of all the goods being shipped back to Spain from this port it became a target for pirates. The solution was to transform the port into a fort.

Most of the outer wall of the fort is still intact and it is great walking on the walls looking out on the Caribbean Sea and down on the city behind the wall.

The city is bustling with life and it is interesting to sit down on a bench in the park and observe all the people. It is incredible to see how many people making a living off walking the streets and selling things. You can sit still on a bench and buy cold drinks, hats, fresh fruit, sweets, cigarettes, get your shoes polished and sip on a hot cup of Colombian coffee. One day we observed that all statues in town had “grown” black hair overnight.

We have no clue to why. Interesting…

In the evenings we had dinners with the other overlanders that were waiting to get their vehicles, and at the most we were 10 people for dinner. The major dinner conversation was of course what had to be done to get our vehicles back. Since the car is registered in Espens name he was the one that had to do all the work. He must have done something right, because after just a couple of days delay from the shipping we had the Patrol back and were ready to drive on in South America. It was good to put the backpacks in the back of the car and be proper overland travelers again.

From Cartagena we drove together with Nordsued.ch and Toyotours.com north along the coast. About 50 kilometers north of Cartagena we had our first stop at Vulcán de Lodo El Totume. You could say it is a bit smaller and different form the other Volcano’s we have climbed on this trip.

After climbing the stairs to the summit we could splash around in the mud. It is impossible to explain how it felt to float in lurk warm mud.

There is no bottom that you can stand on, but still you will not sink down you just float.

After some time in the volcano we had to get a good rinse in the lake before we could jump back into the car and continue the drive north. Our final stop for the day was in Taganga.

It felt a bit like a Mediterranean town and we had a great dinner down at the seafront. And since this would be that last time we would see the Caribbean Sea on this trip, we made one last camp at the beach at Casa Grande outside Los Naranjos.

Goodbye Caribbean.

E&M

 

[gr1910]

are you guys planing on coming to venezuela?
if you are you can log in just4cruisers.com or cruiserheads.com (both are land cruiser forums but they will be happy to help you out, there is A LOT of people there)

you can also contact me via PM...

Love your story, thank you for sharing...

 

[trailsurfer]

Another great update. Thanks!

 

[RMP&O]

Wow they paved that road to the mud volcano. It was just a dirt road when I was there in 2008. I also ghave been to Casa Grande outside Los Naranjos, great place!

And yes we have some of the best skiing in North America here in JH, Wyoming. Backcountry or at the resorts. This year there was so much snow, still 13ft at 9,500ft in elevtation. That is very unusual for us! So free place for you to stay here and a guide if I am around.....

 

[unURBAN]

South towards Bogota

We had heard about toll roads in Colombia that make travelling here a bit more expensive, but we had forgotten about them until we got on the road. From Cartagena we drove 220 km north to Taganga, and we had to pay at five toll booths and it cost us a total of $ 18,6 usd. That is pretty expensive especially since there are no alternative roads next to the toll roads like it is in Mexico. This must be the reason why we hardly see any normal cars driving on the roads outside villages and cities, but there are some buses and an incredible number of trucks.

From the Caribbean we had 935 km in front of us before we would arrive in Bogota. We realized that it would take a while, but not that long. A while before we arrived in Colombia there had been some really heavy rainfalls and we could see evidence along the road in the form of many landslides. Steep and windy roads combined with landslides and the number of trucks was not good for our average speed. One day we managed to drive only 130 km in 7 hours.


From highway 45 we took a detour up to Ocaña where we arrived late in the afternoon and we had to look for a place to camp. On our second round through town we noticed a pickup with a group of people that followed us. When we stopped they stopped too and asked us what we were looking for. After explaining that we needed a secure place to camp for three vehicles they discussed a bit back and forth, and it turned out that one of the guy’s family had a property on the countryside where we could camp. With the pickup truck in lead back through town we arrived at the place and it was nice and peaceful. They wondered how we had ended up in Ocaña, and we said that one of our maps showed a national park 20 something kilometers from Ocaña and we wanted to see it the next day. Our hosts had time because of holiday from studies or finished studies, and they wanted to take us to the Los Estoraques National Park.


In the morning the pickup was again leading us around on the mountain roads. Driving towards the National Park we drove through some really nice landscape with incredible rock formations, and with farmland in between.

To get to the Los Estoraques we had to pass through the white village of La Playa.

This is our group in the park for the first of several group photos. Our friendly, hospital hosts and guides for the day were: Louisa, Camilo, Pacho, Saul, Jorge, Oscar, Checho and Alvaro.

After visiting the Park we had a few more sightseeing stops and one of them was Santuario del Agua de la Virgin.

We had a look at the main plaza in Ocaña at night, and we talked to some more locals along the way. They were all really positive to us visiting their country and some even thanked us for coming. They also hoped we would tell positive stories from Colombia to our family and friends, and that we can definitely do because Colombia is a beautiful county with really nice people. So far on this trip it is here we have got the most positive greetings and thumbs up as we drive through towns and countryside. The perfect ending to a good day was the dinner that Pacho’s mother has cooked for the 14 of us. It was a good tasting beef in salsa meal accompanied with arepas (Colombian homemade tortillas) and goat cheese.


In Ocaña we had to fill up with diesel, but we learned the hard way that all the gas stations in the area were out of gasoline and diesel. They all had this signs up saying NO hay A.C.P.M. (diesel) and NO hay gasolina.

This is the first time we have not been able to find diesel on this journey, and because of that we have got a bit lazy with refueling before it gets too low. Driving around in Ocaña looking for diesel we got even lower on fuel and we had to buy a 6 gallon container of diesel on the street and fill it onto the car. Every ninth house (that was at least the feeling we got) in Ocaña area was selling fuel from barrels, jerry cans or bottles so there was no problem to buy fuel on the street. We were wondering about the reason for this and our best idea was that locals drive the 200 km to the Venezuela border and buy cheap fuel there that they then sell. Since they can sell fuel cheaper than the gas stations the gas stations run out of business.

We paid 33000 pesos (about 3 usd per gallon) for our 6 gallons of diesel on the street. Georg suspected later that the diesel was mixed with gasoline because he could drive up a hill in third gear where he the day before had to use the second gear. Anyway the 6 gallons got us back on the highway and on our second try along the highway we found a gas station that actually had fuel. With full tanks we continued.


We drove through some areas that had some bad landslides and many places there were road works. Quite often we had to stop for the road work, and we learned that whenever there were people walking up to the cars selling cold drinks, snack and hot coffee we had to wait for a while. Espen used the opportunity to get a cup of coffee.

One place we got to, the road had been closed for a while because the bridge had been washed away by the flood water, but we could drive on a small bypass and watch the army building the new bridge.


Highway 45A from Bucaramanga to San Gil was really scenic. The road took us along the Rio Chicamocha for a while and then climbing up to 2300 meters with amazing views over the surrounding valleys.

After managing a distance of 130 km this day we found a place to camp in San Gil and we called it a day.


E&M

 

[unURBAN]

are you guys planing on coming to venezuela?
if you are you can log in just4cruisers.com or cruiserheads.com (both are land cruiser forums but they will be happy to help you out, there is A LOT of people there)

Hi gr1910!
Thanks for the link! Unfortunately we have to skip Venezuela this time. We were discussing it, and some people told us it was too dangerous, and others told us it was fantastic. Our challlenge is to find our way to Ushuaia by the end of October, and it is long way to go. Therefore we have chosen a more westerly route that we think is a little faster without having to bypass all POIs. However, we would love to also do the eastern route of South America, including the Guyianas, Surinam, and Venezuela. Leving these out now only give us a very good excuse to come back!

E&M