Update: found a tall 3P tent; problem with Camptime Roll-a-Cot; need ideas

[PlacidWaters]

The good news: There's a somewhat new 3P tent on the market that is pretty comfortable with a 15" cot: the Marmot Colfax 3; https://www.backcountryedge.com/marmot-colfax-3p.html. Of course it has one glaring problem: very dubious in strong rain with wind. On the positive side, it's 49" tall, the ends are very square to accommodate the cot, and the headroom is the best I've found on a 3P. Compare the top of this tent to, say, the Kelty Trail Ridge 3 and note how roomy the top is compare to the pointy TR3. I now have both tents and the Colfax fits the 15" cot much better.

The bad news: The fabric of my Camptime Roll-a-Cot stretched so much that the cot is no longer stable. How this happened: used it around 400 nights. Why stretching is a problem: to take up the slack in the sagging fabric you have to screw the leg bolts farther and farther out of the hole. Those bolts are what create the tension on the top. At some point the bolt remaining in the hole is too short to keep the cot stable.

IDEAS NEEDED:

(1) How can I protect the Colfax 3 fully from rain? Modify the fly? Get another fly? Use a tarp?

(2) Any way I can overcome the loose fabric on the Camptime cot?

(3) I'm still looking for a way to make the Helinox Cot One higher. I did consider all ideas offered here previously. I found this interesting leg structure: https://www.remodelista.com/products/beechwood-folding-bed/. Can't quite see how it attaches to the side rails or what exactly creates horizontal tension and stability along the length. I also found some photos of DIY cots made with PVC pipes: https://www.google.com/search?q=pvc...ei=jcBOWZl8xfv4AeLvpbAF#imgrc=bOqGgM3sk9W1UM:

 

[PlacidWaters]

One thing I instantly don't like about the Colfax 3 is lack of rainfly coverage over that window. Decent-enough rain and I suspect that water will start to leak through.

Yes, I agree. There are 3 windows with waterproof flaps, but I'm quite concerned about wind-blown rain. The front door is completely covered by a zip-on removable vestibule.

[/QUOTE]You could put a Kelty Noah's Tarp overtop, but personally, I'd look for a different tent and a lower-profile cot (like the Helinox one you have).[/QUOTE]

Well, the difference in comfort between the Helinox Cot One and the Camptime is about 100% in favor of the Camptime.

 

[Nanabijou]

The good news: There's a somewhat new 3P tent on the market that is pretty comfortable with a 15" cot: the Marmot Colfax 3; https://www.backcountryedge.com/marmot-colfax-3p.html. Of course it has one glaring problem: very dubious in strong rain with wind. On the positive side, it's 49" tall, the ends are very square to accommodate the cot, and the headroom is the best I've found on a 3P. Compare the top of this tent to, say, the Kelty Trail Ridge 3 and note how roomy the top is compare to the pointy TR3. I now have both tents and the Colfax fits the 15" cot much better.

The bad news: The fabric of my Camptime Roll-a-Cot stretched so much that the cot is no longer stable. How this happened: used it around 400 nights. Why stretching is a problem: to take up the slack in the sagging fabric you have to screw the leg bolts farther and farther out of the hole. Those bolts are what create the tension on the top. At some point the bolt remaining in the hole is too short to keep the cot stable.

IDEAS NEEDED:

(1) How can I protect the Colfax 3 fully from rain? Modify the fly? Get another fly? Use a tarp?

(2) Any way I can overcome the loose fabric on the Camptime cot?

(3) I'm still looking for a way to make the Helinox Cot One higher. I did consider all ideas offered here previously. I found this interesting leg structure: https://www.remodelista.com/products/beechwood-folding-bed/. Can't quite see how it attaches to the side rails or what exactly creates horizontal tension and stability along the length. I also found some photos of DIY cots made with PVC pipes: https://www.google.com/search?q=pvc...ei=jcBOWZl8xfv4AeLvpbAF#imgrc=bOqGgM3sk9W1UM:

PlacidWaters - Good to see you're still active with the tent and cot stuff. I recently purchased a Nemo Wagontop 3P. It has the tallest ceiling of any 3P tent I could find at 60". Also - I can fit TWO wide versions of the Roll-A-Cot side by side in the tent with about 12" in between them. This is something I used to need a 4P tent to accomplish previously. Part of the key here is that the sides are almost straight up and down, providing an incredible amount of room for a 3P, while still maintaining a smaller footprint. I also like that it has no fly. I love single-wall tents. Waterproof. No fiddling with a fly - including the extra work and hassle. Simpler. No worries about losing the separate fly. And the ventilation with Nemo single-walled tents is fantastic. Of course - this is contrary to all the vitriol you read about single-walled tents in outdoor gear site reviews. The pole setup seems awkward and unwieldy the first time you use it. But I can now set this tent up quicker than any of my other tents. We have the 4P Wagontop tent as well (the bigger brother to the 3P), but can use the 3P in situations where the the available tent real estate is at a premium (e.g., backcountry canoeing). I will never purchase another double-walled tent again.

Regarding the issues with the Roll-A-Cot. I never adjust those wing nuts on mine. I like a little sag with my cots. I find it more comfortable - probably for the same reason why hammock lovers embrace their sagging hammocks. And the 3-4" airbeds seem to ride high enough that I don't feel like I'm being cocooned inside the cot. Then again - I've never used any of mine 400 times yet - so maybe over that kind of use they simply stretch too much and need replacing, or the continued tightening of them with each use speeds up the stretching of the fabric.

Mike

 

[kurthuber]

Looks like you can get replacement tops from camptime... https://www.camptime.com/collections/parts?page=2 at a pretty reasonable price ($25)

 

[lightstrum]

I have Colfax 2p and 4p Tents. Love them because of the interior space and the rainfly can work as a sunshade. So far so good with leakage from the windows. The Nemo Wagontop, I love Nemo products and own a few but that tent is such an ugly color that I found it very off putting to be inside and didn't keep it.

 

[PlacidWaters]

I have Colfax 2p and 4p Tents. Love them because of the interior space and the rainfly can work as a sunshade. So far so good with leakage from the windows. The Nemo Wagontop, I love Nemo products and own a few but that tent is such an ugly color that I found it very off putting to be inside and didn't keep it.

What kind of conditions have you used your Colfax in? Any hard, wind-driven rain?

I'm afraid I have to agree about the color of the Nemo Wagontop.

 

[PlacidWaters]

I recently purchased a Nemo Wagontop 3P. . . .I will never purchase another double-walled tent again.

Regarding the issues with the Roll-A-Cot. I never adjust those wing nuts on mine. I like a little sag with my cots. I find it more comfortable - probably for the same reason why hammock lovers embrace their sagging hammocks. . . . maybe over that kind of use they simply stretch too much and need replacing, or the continued tightening of them with each use speeds up the stretching of the fabric.

Mike

Mike, thanks for this input. The Wagontop 3P is pretty close to the size of my Kelty Trail Ridge 4P---and that shows in the weight. The specs for the Wagontop aren't right for me---just too bulky and heavy---but your comments about single walls are interesting. What about camping in hot, humid places? Are you saying that the fly on a double-wall tent obstructs ventilation, while the side windows on the Wagontop allow a freer air flow?

About those windows: They look similar to the windows on the Colfax, with a closable flap. Does rain get in around the window seams and zippers?

I didn't notice any problem with my Roll-a-Cot for the first 300 nights. After that it felt less comfortable. I use an Exped Synmat with it. I feel like the mattress needs to be on a perfectly flat surface for back comfort.

 

[PlacidWaters]

Looks like you can get replacement tops from camptime... https://www.camptime.com/collections/parts?page=2 at a pretty reasonable price ($25)

I noticed that! It's a good deal. I might just buy a new cot. The aluminum in the older models (mine) had a problem with extreme residue from the metal that gets on your hands. Apparently that's been corrected in the current ones?

I wish Camptime would make an adjustable-height cot, like their tables.

 

[Nanabijou]

Mike, thanks for this input. The Wagontop 3P is pretty close to the size of my Kelty Trail Ridge 4P---and that shows in the weight. The specs for the Wagontop aren't right for me---just too bulky and heavy---but your comments about single walls are interesting. What about camping in hot, humid places? Are you saying that the fly on a double-wall tent obstructs ventilation, while the side windows on the Wagontop allow a freer air flow?

About those windows: They look similar to the windows on the Colfax, with a closable flap. Does rain get in around the window seams and zippers?

I didn't notice any problem with my Roll-a-Cot for the first 300 nights. After that it felt less comfortable. I use an Exped Synmat with it. I feel like the mattress needs to be on a perfectly flat surface for back comfort.

I just came back from a 600 mile motorcycle trip and took the Wagontop 3P on the bike with me. I wouldn't be bringing it on the bike if weight or size didn't meet my needs. It's actually a similar weight (about 10 lbs) to my much smaller (previous) motorcycle tent (Nemo Moki 3P) and far easier and quicker to assemble (no interior poles for instance). And less than HALF the price of the Moki. With that said - this is NOT a backpacking tent. It will mostly be used for motorcycle camping and canoe/car camping, where weight and size is less of an issue.

The window set up is virtually identical to the larger Wagontop 4P and we've never had any issue with leakage - though that's a keen observation - and I've been wary of that and have been watching it closely - particularly following strong wind mixed with driving rain. Once again - so far not one drop in the tent. The only minor issues I've encountered with the design is that if it has rained, and you are packing away the tent wet - the poles are likely to have collected some rain water - so be ready to either get dripped on while collapsing the poles (great if you like showering in your clothes) - unless you think to tip them upside down and drain them first - or simply keep them away from your body (and then subsequently have the water drip down your shirt sleeves....). And putting the tent poles in place makes you look like you are awkwardly imitating an out-of-practice Doc Octopus about to engage in an epic battle with Spider Man. The other consideration is that these tents are not the most aerodynamic with their straight up-and-down sides and tall ceilings. You need to make sure to face the angled vestibule into the wind - and keep it closed - to prevent the tent from taking off and inadvertently introducing you to the sport of kite surfing - in gustier conditions.

It's funny - I've never even thought much about the colour of the tent. I would never let that affect my purchase decision. Form (and colour) always follows function for me. With that said - I like the colour and so do friends we've camped with and who have slept in it. And this is so far the best functioning tent overall that I've purchased. Interesting, a number of years ago - I sent Nemo some specs on what my "ideal" tent would be - including a description of straight up and down sides, tall ceiling, clipped exterior poles, and a single-walled shell, and coincidentally - the Wagontop series is essentially THAT tent.

I'm not questioning the ventilation ability of well-designed double-walled tents - only that newer well-designed single-walled tents can ventilate very well also, and for my purposes - I will never own another double-walled tent. The hottest and most humid camping I've done in my Nemo single-walled tents have been in S. Ontario in modestly warm conditions (88-90 F days and 70 F nights) - with no issues - so your idea of hot and humid may be different than mine and your environment may lead you to make different decisions about which gear works best for you where you use it most. I just find that for me - double-walled tents offer several drawback and no clear advantages. For instance, another issue I've had with double-walled tents is insects chewing through the mesh. These critters not only get trapped between the fly and the tent shell and buzz and bounce off the ceiling all night (a real distraction when trying to have a good night's sleep) but they have also chewed through the mesh perhaps as a desperate means of escaping their captivity (this is with a Marmot Halo 4P that was an otherwise excellent tent) which then allowed them and their entourage easy access to us. Nice. The good news is that this has modestly improved the ventilation capability of the tent. We just duct-taped the mesh in several places to cover the holes as a temporary fix - but we simply have no need for that tent anymore - and these kinds of issues. I will probably give it away to someone who tents less frequently or who sees the value in repairing an otherwise high quality, used (and free) tent.

Mike

 

[perkj]

(2) Any way I can overcome the loose fabric on the Camptime cot?

Camptime sells replacement fabric for the roll-a-cot for only $25....see the bottom of this link: https://www.camptime.com/collections/parts?page=2


UPDATE: sorry, missed this was already suggested.

 

[PlacidWaters]

I just came back from a 600 mile motorcycle trip and took the Wagontop 3P on the bike with me. I wouldn't be bringing it on the bike if weight or size didn't meet my needs.

I'm always amazed at what you put on that bike of yours. My maximum tent weight for car camping is 8 lbs, because I have to lug everything from back door to driveway.

we've never had any issue with leakage

Did you add any extra seam sealer around the windows? I got a can of Kiwi Campdry after Marmot CS described the Colfax as a "fair-weather" tent.

You need to make sure to face the angled vestibule into the wind - and keep it closed - to prevent the tent from taking off and inadvertently introducing you to the sport of kite surfing - in gustier conditions.

HA! I bet that's what they had to do with covered wagons on the prairies.

I'm not questioning the ventilation ability of well-designed double-walled tents - only that newer well-designed single-walled tents can ventilate very well also,

I find many double-walled tents hot and humid as the air is trapped between the tent and the fly. Also, mesh can be surprisingly hot---it doesn't let all air escape to the outside. I've just always assumed that single-walled tents were worse! Thanks for enlightening me on this. Remembering LL Bean canvas tents from the days before global warming, I don't recall that they were hot though I wonder how they ventilated. My weather conditions are the same as yours.