Redline
Likes to Drive and Ride
While having my lockers and gears installed the technician discovered and showed me that:
1) before disassembly turing the nuts on the lower end of the bolts running through the Uni-Ball joints on my All-Pro upper control arms would allow the unit to move in the steering arm, indicating they were loose, and not held by the taper in the steering arm.
2) These long bolts running through the All-Pro Uni-Ball were also bent. The right/passenger one quite badly, the left side not as bad. My 4Runner has not been 'beat' I'm generally a finesse driver. The only use that could at all be considered 'hard' was the sand course at last years ExPo Trophy. I did catch a little air (1-2-ft? in front), but the landing was soft and smooth. While it is surely possible the 'air' under the tires and subsequent landing were part of my bent bolt problem, I think there is possibly a much larger issue here.
Upon closer inspection and disassembly it was clear that the taper on the bottom of the aftermarket upper A-arms that fits into the steering arm was not long enough and possibly not the correct taper. They certainly don’t fit (wedge) correctly into the Toyota steering arms. This poor fit and spinning free-play most certainly could be a contributing factor in the bending of the bolts.
Just from looking at online pictures and descriptions the Total Chaos and All-Pro upper A-arms look like they might be the same product. I called All-Pro and the counter man (same one I have spoken to before) and he said they have never hear of this. Maybe so. He didn’t have any of these uni-balls in stock to send me a replacement, and wouldn't for two weeks. He gave me a phone number for another company in Riverside, CA (but he didn’t know the name) that supposedly had the parts. I didn’t call. Not sure I want to replace this with the same poor fit.
After discovering this issue I was considering buying another brand of aftermarket upper A-arms, all billet aluminum and very pricy (over $1,000.00). But if they are better I would buy them to have things right. Luckily a friend had some of these aluminum A-arms that he was going to install on an FJ Cruiser. We were able to check the taper on the joint that fits into the Toyota steering arm. It was very loose! The taper is a different (wrong) angle than that of the stock steering arm. It only contacts toward the top of the steering arm with about 3/8" of total contact when the piece was pulled into the steering arm with a nut on the end of the threads. The tapered hole in the arm is an inch or more. The shop technician, owner, and I all believe there should be much more contact in the steering arm.
My steering arm holes do not appear to be rounded and the stock ball-joint taper still fits tight and perfectly snug (as it is the correct taper angle) when inserted into the steering arm. The poorly fitting piece from the billet aluminum arms could be easily wiggled in the steering arm taper unless a nut was used to pull it down into the taper for the minimal contact.
Calls to the manufacturer insured us that they have sold many of these control arms and there is no problem, just tighten them down and they will be fine. Maybe so, but I find it hard to accept that aftermarket parts like this, supposedly designed for and usable for racing, should fit so poorly. This is steering! I was ready to put the stock A-arms back on and temporarily deal with too little caster, but there is another solution in the works.
I'm hoping to have a machinist make a custom sleeves with the correct taper that will fit over the lower section of new 9/16" bolts, that will correctly/tightly wedge into the steering arm hole. The too short (and possibly improper angle of taper?) on the bottom of my All-Pro Uni-Ball A-Arms will be ground down and the taper sleeve will take its place. I’ll know if the machinist comes through and if this works by the middle of next week.
1) before disassembly turing the nuts on the lower end of the bolts running through the Uni-Ball joints on my All-Pro upper control arms would allow the unit to move in the steering arm, indicating they were loose, and not held by the taper in the steering arm.
2) These long bolts running through the All-Pro Uni-Ball were also bent. The right/passenger one quite badly, the left side not as bad. My 4Runner has not been 'beat' I'm generally a finesse driver. The only use that could at all be considered 'hard' was the sand course at last years ExPo Trophy. I did catch a little air (1-2-ft? in front), but the landing was soft and smooth. While it is surely possible the 'air' under the tires and subsequent landing were part of my bent bolt problem, I think there is possibly a much larger issue here.
Upon closer inspection and disassembly it was clear that the taper on the bottom of the aftermarket upper A-arms that fits into the steering arm was not long enough and possibly not the correct taper. They certainly don’t fit (wedge) correctly into the Toyota steering arms. This poor fit and spinning free-play most certainly could be a contributing factor in the bending of the bolts.
Just from looking at online pictures and descriptions the Total Chaos and All-Pro upper A-arms look like they might be the same product. I called All-Pro and the counter man (same one I have spoken to before) and he said they have never hear of this. Maybe so. He didn’t have any of these uni-balls in stock to send me a replacement, and wouldn't for two weeks. He gave me a phone number for another company in Riverside, CA (but he didn’t know the name) that supposedly had the parts. I didn’t call. Not sure I want to replace this with the same poor fit.
After discovering this issue I was considering buying another brand of aftermarket upper A-arms, all billet aluminum and very pricy (over $1,000.00). But if they are better I would buy them to have things right. Luckily a friend had some of these aluminum A-arms that he was going to install on an FJ Cruiser. We were able to check the taper on the joint that fits into the Toyota steering arm. It was very loose! The taper is a different (wrong) angle than that of the stock steering arm. It only contacts toward the top of the steering arm with about 3/8" of total contact when the piece was pulled into the steering arm with a nut on the end of the threads. The tapered hole in the arm is an inch or more. The shop technician, owner, and I all believe there should be much more contact in the steering arm.
My steering arm holes do not appear to be rounded and the stock ball-joint taper still fits tight and perfectly snug (as it is the correct taper angle) when inserted into the steering arm. The poorly fitting piece from the billet aluminum arms could be easily wiggled in the steering arm taper unless a nut was used to pull it down into the taper for the minimal contact.
Calls to the manufacturer insured us that they have sold many of these control arms and there is no problem, just tighten them down and they will be fine. Maybe so, but I find it hard to accept that aftermarket parts like this, supposedly designed for and usable for racing, should fit so poorly. This is steering! I was ready to put the stock A-arms back on and temporarily deal with too little caster, but there is another solution in the works.
I'm hoping to have a machinist make a custom sleeves with the correct taper that will fit over the lower section of new 9/16" bolts, that will correctly/tightly wedge into the steering arm hole. The too short (and possibly improper angle of taper?) on the bottom of my All-Pro Uni-Ball A-Arms will be ground down and the taper sleeve will take its place. I’ll know if the machinist comes through and if this works by the middle of next week.
Last edited:
unk03:
