Ursa Minor J30 Wrangler vs Alu-Cab Canopy Camper Gladiator?

[HopeOverLandandSea]

What I would like to gather is opinions on going with an Ursa Minor J30 Wrangler vs Alu-Cab Canopy Camper Gladiator?

This would be for a semi-full time Overlanding rig for myself (and future spouse) where we would start traveling here in the USA but looking at doing the full Pan-Am highway is the ultimate goal over the next few years. We both have jobs we can work remote and Starlink will be integral part of either setup and thinking ahead to "office space" as well. (I have another thread, working on adding monitors in my current Rubicon JL 4xe for this summers trip.)

Currently I have a Rubicon 4xe and I am towing a 2021 Aliner Scout, lifted and running BFG KM3s for both. I will be taking this on a 8000 mile trip this summer with my nephew traveling across the USA and then I will be looking fairly seriously at ordering a 2024 model Wrangler or Gladiator. (Selling the current 4xe because it has Sky One Touch power top which would not fit the build out plan)

For the next few years I would likely keep the Aliner and during the summers tow it so I have camping space for my nephew AND second space for us as a couple. But I think that I will eventually be moving towards a single vehicle solution for the Pan-Am excursion? If folks have done that trip with a trailer I would love your thoughts vs the folks that did it with a single vehicle like HourLessLife folks that I am following in their camper/gladiator. IOW, rig + towing a camper vs rig with camper on board.

Here are the differences that I am seeing and looking for input.

Price is basically the same, maybe 2-3k more for the Gladiator for comparable trims and builds. (Willys Xtreme Recon vs Gladiator Sport S Max Tow pkg)

Interior space.. in both cases I would do the Goose-Gear 60% floor delete, rear galley area and 270 awnings. Really I think the biggest difference is you have a 5' bed on Gladiator so more "roomy" inside but you lose your ability to get in/out from inside? Is that extra 2 foot or so worth losing that ability? For those that have the Ursa Minor how "important" was that function, getting in/out from inside? I see Dan Grec talking about rainy season and it was a huge benefit for him.. but I think he was solo traveling?

Office space: I am thinking an "office" in rear drivers side (40%) with monitor on back of drivers seat for either rig. When stopped (not driving) I could easily see a 2nd office for front seat passenger? Not sure I "need" a rear office in either camper? Ability to do a "standing desk" situation in the Alu-Cab is kinda interesting though?

"Convertible" space: One selling point for Gladiator / Alu-Cab is the ability to still remove the front freedom panels to let the light shine in? After all that is WHY we bought a Jeep vs just getting a Toyota or other pickup truck right? You have lost that completely with the Wrangler Ursa Minor J30 setup. For those that have traveled "full time" on these huge trips, did you actually find yourself taking the top off? If not.. what is the argument for Jeep then vs any of the other pickups?

Towing: Gladiator wins this hands down but my Aliner weighs under 2k do I really care? When I am NOT towing the Aliner do I care even less? Payload also a question with Gladiator being a big winner here at 1700 pounds for max tow pkg sport S but do I really NEED that extra payload once I am fully kitted out?

What else am I missing? I was originally thinking Rubicon because "why not" but the more of these OVERLAND videos I watch the less I think I will be "rock crawling" at all in this rig. Rear locker (limited slip max tow pkg) and a winch on the front I suspect will take me everywhere I want to go?

Any other considerations for crossing borders?

On single rig vs camper: 2 titles vs 1 for when towing Aliner, possibly 2x for TIP and insurance stuff? Worries about leaving camper, I noticed BajaBound insurance specifically ONLY included coverage when HOOKED to my tow rig!?

I have eliminated diesel rigs because of DEF concerns and quality or different types of diesel in CA and SA, decided to KISS and go with gas.

Picture of current rig at the campground this weekend.

 

[1000arms]

Regarding the Ursa Minor, you might want to look at:



....................................
Regarding the Pan American highway, you might want to look at:



...................................
You might want to research the author Dan Grec. He is also a member of this forum. Look for posts by @Dan Grec .

 

[1000arms]

You might find this thread interesting:

Gladiator Pop-Up Pass Through Camper Build

I'm building a fiberglass pop top. Check it out!

expeditionportal.com

 

[HopeOverLandandSea]

I believe I have read both of Dan's books already, not sure I remember him talking about if he popped the top any, mostly lots of stories about the travel itself which I really enjoy. The walkaround at HourLessLife was super helpful showing their Goose-Gear and Alu-Cab setup on their Gladiator.

I really ping pong between the concepts and maybe after pulling the camper 8000 miles this summer I will have a better feel for that on a daily basis (2 months) and if it is burdensome or if I really like the fact I can drop it and then go explore in just the Jeep without taking my "home" with me.

VERY interesting build on that Gladiator thank you for that link 1000arms and his price point of $14k tells me it would be an interesting option. 50+ pages though so not sure how he fixed the flex between the bed and the cab I am guessing frame stiffening based on early comment he made.

 

[1000arms]

... VERY interesting build on that Gladiator thank you for that link 1000arms and his price point of $14k tells me it would be an interesting option. 50+ pages though so not sure how he fixed the flex between the bed and the cab I am guessing frame stiffening based on early comment he made.

@Mules, JeepNerd has a question about your Jon boat.

 

[1000arms]

I believe I have read both of Dan's books already, not sure I remember him talking about if he popped the top any, mostly lots of stories about the travel itself which I really enjoy. The walkaround at HourLessLife was super helpful showing their Goose-Gear and Alu-Cab setup on their Gladiator.

I really ping pong between the concepts and maybe after pulling the camper 8000 miles this summer I will have a better feel for that on a daily basis (2 months) and if it is burdensome or if I really like the fact I can drop it and then go explore in just the Jeep without taking my "home" with me.

VERY interesting build on that Gladiator thank you for that link 1000arms and his price point of $14k tells me it would be an interesting option. 50+ pages though so not sure how he fixed the flex between the bed and the cab I am guessing frame stiffening based on early comment he made.

You are welcome!

A Jeep, cooler, stove, and a tent (or two) will let people camp in very remote spots, and be useable in towns/cities. A trailer can make it hard to turn around and hard to backup, but allows for more gear and perhaps a fixed mattress. A heavy-duty pickup truck with a camper won't fit everywhere the Jeep will, but can still fit many places, and still be parked in towns/cities. Dropping a trailer requires a place to drop it and requires a return to pick it up.

You've likely thought about the above compromises a number of times, but I thought I would post it for anyone who hasn't considered it.

 

[Mules]

@Mules, JeepNerd has a question about your Jon boat.

Thanks for the question about bed twist and believe it or not, you're not the first to ask.

Follow the camper seam line in the picture below and I think you'll understand.

1) Look how close the rear door seam is to the cab/bed seam. Any minimal flex happens in the back door seam and freedom top seams which are already gasketed with rubber. Come on, do I really need to add another seam a few inches back from the door seam to line up with the bed? No.


2). There is almost no twist in the Gladiator's frame, unlike some pickups. There's a number of reasons for this, foremost it is designed on a Jeep boxed (tube) frame that is the strongest frame on the market today as well as the back axle is very close to the cab. Here is a video describing the difference between Boxed and C channel frames.



She's working great after 6 months on the road and wheeling. I designed for 1/2" of flex, which has never happened.

 

[HopeOverLandandSea]

That is awesome that the flex was minimal and basically caused no issues! I have not read all 50 pages to figure out the nitty gritty details but this is a very nice build! Having the ability to access from inside PLUS the extra room of the Gladiator is a win/win!

This makes me wonder about the rear glass on the Gladiator hard top and how hard that would be to remove and create a pass through instead. I remember there was a series of camper / truck toppers years ago that did that with a sealed rubber gasket to connect a pickup and rear topper together but was always some leaking and complaints though I think they could be fixed especially with the less flex you are seeing.

Hmm, food for thought for sure! (Also need to eyeball the soft top on Gladiator to see how rear window works on it.. zips out maybe?)

 

[Mules]

That is awesome that the flex was minimal and basically caused no issues! I have not read all 50 pages to figure out the nitty gritty details but this is a very nice build! Having the ability to access from inside PLUS the extra room of the Gladiator is a win/win!

This makes me wonder about the rear glass on the Gladiator hard top and how hard that would be to remove and create a pass through instead. I remember there was a series of camper / truck toppers years ago that did that with a sealed rubber gasket to connect a pickup and rear topper together but was always some leaking and complaints though I think they could be fixed especially with the less flex you are seeing.

Hmm, food for thought for sure! (Also need to eyeball the soft top on Gladiator to see how rear window works on it.. zips out maybe?)

First off:
A big concern is people think the Gladiator will twist like their old pickup does.

The picture above shows the Ram on the left with a boxed frame (no twist), and the Ford on the right with a C channel frame twisting.

Jeep sells us a very stiff boxed frame so that we can abuse it. They know we are going to do some heavy 4 wheeling with them, unlike a typical pickup.

Secondly:


I do believe you can just remove the rear window of the hardtop, and use a gasket. It might leak a little, though. I bought a new Mopar Hardtop without the rear glass installed. Above is a picture of what it looks like without the glass.

 

[AggieOE]

First off:View attachment 770402
A big concern is people think the Gladiator will twist like their old pickup does.

The picture above shows the Ram on the left with a boxed frame (no twist), and the Ford on the right with a C channel frame twisting.

Jeep sells us a very stiff boxed frame so that we can abuse it. They know we are going to do some heavy 4 wheeling with them, unlike a typical pickup.

Secondly:

View attachment 770404
I do believe you can just remove the rear window of the hardtop, and use a gasket. It might leak a little, though. I bought a new Mopar Hardtop without the rear glass installed. Below is a picture of what it looks like without the glass.

That video was very enlightening! I was definitely ignorant of the perks of a flexing frame and why it's better for towing and stablization. That being said, a fully boxed frame looks to be the saving grace for a build like yours to mitigate flex.

 

[1000arms]

... There is almost no twist in the Gladiator's frame, unlike some pickups. ...

For anyone needing more payload than a Jeep, the 2017+ Super Duty pickups have fully boxed frames.

From Ford's 2021 website.
"The fully boxed frame, built of percent high-strength steel with up to 10 crossmembers, is 24 times stiffer than the previous design. The frame is designed to minimize flexing and twisting while maximizing strength and torsional rigidity, and serves as the foundation for the impressive towing and hauling capability of the Super Duty® . "

Off the shelf subframes and camper body kits!

Some great news for everyone considering using the F550 as an expedition truck platform! For the last several years we have had many many customers asking us for camper bodies for the F550 range. The big obstacle was always the lack of subframes. For the last two years Durrance Design Group has...

expeditionportal.com

 

[Dan Grec]

What I would like to gather is opinions on going with an Ursa Minor J30 Wrangler vs Alu-Cab Canopy Camper Gladiator?

This is a very large open-ended question that will have a lot of different answers.
I don't believe there is a right or wrong answer, it's more about how you want to travel and camp, and what works for you.

You said mostly US travel for now, with a view to the Pan-Am. I'll give my thoughts based on that.

On the whole, remember that the Pan-Am is a massive North->South drive. Every single day you will be moving to a new place, and it's very, very unlikely you'll want to circle back around to the same place. Also there isn't really any "wheeling" so it's not like , say, Moab where you might leave your trailer and go wheeling for a day or two and have a nice basecamp. In Latin America even when you're in a great camping spot you can likely just walk into a street market anyway.

Towing:
- How much do you enjoy towing? are you perfectly comfortable reversing in tricky situations, very narrow streets, etc?
I personally don't like it and am not good at it, so I am not interested in towing anything internationally.
Remember the streets are NARROW, the roads are bad, and everywhere you want to get to (interesting places) are nasty roads. Do you want to tow that thing through all that?

Also remember there will be times you leave the vehicle unattended at borders, when going into supermarkets or just when staying the night in a hostel or something - leaving two vehicles (tow + trailer) unattended will give you twice the stress that something will get stolen, etc.

Towing also means you have more wheels on the ground, more moving parts, more to go wrong, more to maintain.
There's a reason very, very few people tow internationally.
Of all the people I've met driving the Pan-Am (or around the world), I'd say less than 5% have been towing.. and basically all of them were limited on where they could go (or maybe not *could*, but were willing to go)

Don't get me wrong, PLENTY of people have towed the length of the Pan-Am. It absolutely can be done, it's more a question of will it be as enjoyable as other alternatives. You might have a comfy camp (if you can get the trailer somewhere good), but every other aspect is going to be more work and more stressful.

It will also cost a lot more in gas, which will be the biggest expense on the road by far.

Ursa Minor J30:
It was absolutely brilliant for my needs, and if I were doing Africa again I would very likely do the same thing. It provides only modest internal living space - basically no cooking inisde or really even hanging out when the weather sucks, but it does provide a very, VERY quick and easy setup and teardown for camping, all integrated, very comfortable sleeping ,etc.
I honestly think it's a VERY hard setup to beat for 1 or 2 people. (Not more).

Gladiator + AluCab:
- Firstly MAKE SURE you get the max tow package with the bigger payload. It's guaranteed you will exceed the GVWR if you go this route. Talk to HourlessLife about how far over they are. (A LOT)

- I think this is a great setup for 2-3 people - a little more involved to setup and teardown, but does actually provide some genuine interior living space to get out of the elements and have your "work" setup which is very nice.

I hope those random thoughts help.

-Dan

 

[HopeOverLandandSea]

This is a very large open-ended question that will have a lot of different answers.
I don't believe there is a right or wrong answer, it's more about how you want to travel and camp, and what works for you.

You said mostly US travel for now, with a view to the Pan-Am. I'll give my thoughts based on that.

On the whole, remember that the Pan-Am is a massive North->South drive. Every single day you will be moving to a new place, and it's very, very unlikely you'll want to circle back around to the same place. Also there isn't really any "wheeling" so it's not like , say, Moab where you might leave your trailer and go wheeling for a day or two and have a nice basecamp. In Latin America even when you're in a great camping spot you can likely just walk into a street market anyway.

Towing:
- How much do you enjoy towing? are you perfectly comfortable reversing in tricky situations, very narrow streets, etc?
I personally don't like it and am not good at it, so I am not interested in towing anything internationally.
Remember the streets are NARROW, the roads are bad, and everywhere you want to get to (interesting places) are nasty roads. Do you want to tow that thing through all that?

Also remember there will be times you leave the vehicle unattended at borders, when going into supermarkets or just when staying the night in a hostel or something - leaving two vehicles (tow + trailer) unattended will give you twice the stress that something will get stolen, etc.

Towing also means you have more wheels on the ground, more moving parts, more to go wrong, more to maintain.
There's a reason very, very few people tow internationally.
Of all the people I've met driving the Pan-Am (or around the world), I'd say less than 5% have been towing.. and basically all of them were limited on where they could go (or maybe not *could*, but were willing to go)

Don't get me wrong, PLENTY of people have towed the length of the Pan-Am. It absolutely can be done, it's more a question of will it be as enjoyable as other alternatives. You might have a comfy camp (if you can get the trailer somewhere good), but every other aspect is going to be more work and more stressful.

It will also cost a lot more in gas, which will be the biggest expense on the road by far.

Ursa Minor J30:
It was absolutely brilliant for my needs, and if I were doing Africa again I would very likely do the same thing. It provides only modest internal living space - basically no cooking inisde or really even hanging out when the weather sucks, but it does provide a very, VERY quick and easy setup and teardown for camping, all integrated, very comfortable sleeping ,etc.
I honestly think it's a VERY hard setup to beat for 1 or 2 people. (Not more).

Gladiator + AluCab:
- Firstly MAKE SURE you get the max tow package with the bigger payload. It's guaranteed you will exceed the GVWR if you go this route. Talk to HourlessLife about how far over they are. (A LOT)

- I think this is a great setup for 2-3 people - a little more involved to setup and teardown, but does actually provide some genuine interior living space to get out of the elements and have your "work" setup which is very nice.

I hope those random thoughts help.

-Dan

Dan thank you so much for your in depth reply, this is super helpful from someone that has drove these exact same miles and your experience gives me a lot of confidence in your opinions. The fact that you are seeing 95% without trailers (and I am seeing this in all the books I am reading too beyond yours) makes more sense as you talk about the narrow streets and terrible road conditions. I am really good at backing up trailers but...I was thinking in my mind MOST of my journey would not be in "towns" but mostly rural. However, it sounds like you end up in these little towns way more often than you think about and those little towns are the ones to worry about the tiny streets!

I need to go back and look at HourLessLife build, I thought they did the max tow but I will go look, if they are max tow AND still over payload, oh no!!

If you happen to read this and have time to respond, my other question is about the "convertible" aspect? Did you find yourself taking the top off / back on a pretty day (or wishing you could with J30?) I see that HourLessLife Alu-cab would allow removal of front panels which I rate pretty high in still keeping the Jeep a "fun" toy too. That is what makes the Gladiator unique vs any other pickup is the ability for that sunshine. Maybe this is just not part of the overlanding experience for most folks?

 

[shays4me]

I'll add a couple of thoughts, but take it with a grain of salt. I am not a world traveler but I have had an Ursa Minor J30 for a few seasons. First off if I was traveling full time and trying to work on the road I would want more room then a Wrangler Unlimited offers for two people. The UM top is great but I think the cramped quarters of the Wrangler would get old really quick. If you go this route pack light/less. Secondly, I would buy the Gladiator over a couple of different trucks because in the mid size market you will need a vehicle with global support. The Wrangler has that and I would suspect a lot of Wrangler components fit Gladiator as well. The current US offering from Toyota (Tacoma) is a truck that is not a globally supported platform and has a C channel riveted frame. I would very much prefer a welded tube steel frame due to the payload stresses that will more than likely be over GVWR. It's very difficult to pack everything two people need/want for living in a midsize platform that will fit on the roads in central and south America. If it wasn't for the bulk of it all I'd say buy a full sized 3/4 or 1 ton truck but they get really big in tight spots! As for the freedom panels, that's all user preference. I would look at them as a con for security, but I haven't heard of break ins occuring through the roof. If someone really wants in they won't care one bit about the expense of your replacement glass!

 

[Dan Grec]

I need to go back and look at HourLessLife build, I thought they did the max tow but I will go look, if they are max tow AND still over payload, oh no!!

If you happen to read this and have time to respond, my other question is about the "convertible" aspect? Did you find yourself taking the top off / back on a pretty day (or wishing you could with J30?) I see that HourLessLife Alu-cab would allow removal of front panels which I rate pretty high in still keeping the Jeep a "fun" toy too. That is what makes the Gladiator unique vs any other pickup is the ability for that sunshine. Maybe this is just not part of the overlanding experience for most folks?

They do have the max tow, and they are a good deal over GVWR. The AluCab makes it virtually impossible not to go over, in my opinion.

The convertible aspect is something I honestly don't care about even 1%. I had the soft top from Alaksa to Argentina, and I figured I would fold it back and drive around without the roof... I did that before I ever started that expedtion for day trips and weekenders, but once I was actually on the road living in it full time I never did it even once.

It's a fun novelty, but when you live in a vehicle getting it full of mud and dust and rain and everything else is just not appealing.
I didn't miss the ability to remove the freedom panels even for one second in Africa, and I'm sure I never would have taken them off even if I could. Getting sunburnt and windburn just isn't as fun when it's your whole life, and you are not just going to back home with a couch and shower in a day or two.

In fact, my Gladiator in Australia still had the freedom panels perfectly functional.
I never took them off even once in 18 months of ownership.

-Dan