Volkswagen Vanagon 4x4 Conversion.

[vwhammer]

Well, this is the week.
This is the week I start putting some things together and really see what kind of trouble I am in with this whole 4x4 conversion.
So technically I started on Sunday with a little clean up in the garage.
This "little" clean up ended up taking all day Sunday and most of the day on Monday.
With things organized and a lot more room in the garage, I got underway.
I spent a couple hours finding and organizing all the seals, bearings, new parts and old parts that I needed for both my front and rear axles.

With these arranged I could start assembly.
A while back I placed my order for some parts and those parts included new steering arms.
They did not have the ones that I wanted at the time but offered a free upgrade to some stronger bits.
These bits look like so...

However these require some material to be removed from the steering knuckle so they fit down over the knuckle.

This is where the upgrade in strength comes from.

Any other day I would have taken these to the machine shop but trying to sort out how to hold the part right where I needed it and take off what I needed was not something that I felt like dealing with.
So I took to the parts with a grinder and a file and am pretty pleased with the fit.

I mentioned that I had my front hubs machined to fit my new rotor.
Here is a quick pic of that.
Not too complicated.

After this it was time to install the races in all my hubs and my steering balls on the axles.
I have a not-so-complicated trick to do this.
I worked for a few years at a company that built ultra low temp lab freezers.
As such I ended up with a one or two functional units that did not meet our test requirements.
These units will go as low as -100C but -50c or so is usually enough.

Step one: Put the parts in the freezer.

Step two: Turn the freezer on and let it get to about -50c

Step three: Heat the part receiving the new race.

Step four: Grab the race from the freezer and drop it into place.

This works so well, in fact, that if you turn the part over too soon to install the new race on the other side the one you just installed will fall out. (ask me how I know)
Then you have to put the part in the freezer and wait for it to get down to temp to start all over again.

After all that a loose dry assembly could commence.
I started with the rear while I wait on some nuts and bolts I need for the front.
I got it together enough to bolt the tires on it and slide it under the van.

I will start by saying things are going to be tight with clearance between the engine/trans and the axle.
It's tough to see in this pic but the diff is going to be real close to the trans.

I am going to have to get my donor engine and trans out of my car or find a loaner to temporarily install to get to the bottom of this.

I do have a couple of options if clearance is an issue.
I can raise the engine and trans or increase the height of the van a bit more to make it all work.
It could be some combination of both.
I had hoped to use an off the shelf Subaru/Vanagon conversion engine cross member but if I go the lifted drive-train route I may have no other choice but to build my own.

Of course I can only go so high with the engine and trans before I get into some under belly mods to clear the drive shaft that goes from my trans to the transfer case.

I will explore a loaner engine/trans set up and see what I can see.

Other than that I did notice that the tire is awful close to the upper spring perch.

This can be clearanced a bit so I am not too concerned about it at the moment.

Tomorrow my hopes are to get the front axle temporarily assembled and slid under the van.
I will then bolt all the control arms in place and locate the axle mounting brackets on both axles.

If all goes right I will have another update tomorrow.

 

[Raul]

You sir are an inspiration. Or a deterrent . Impressive work.

 

[Vandit]

Nice progress! Keep it going!

 

[vwhammer]

*Sigh*

Chipping away a little bit at a time.

I did make a touch more progress but I am nowhere near where I wanted to be at this point.

I ordered some nuts and bolts that I needed to get the front axle loosely assembled.
They got here Wednesday so I was excited to get at it.
I did not get too far into assembly before realizing that about 6 of the 8 studs total that hold the steering arms on were completely jacked.
Ok maybe not completely but pretty messed up.
Most I could not even get nuts started and all of them had spots where the threads were flattened.
Perhaps they got wrecked during shipping or wrecked by the ham-fisted yard worker that took them off but either way they need replaced.

Got those ordered but they will not be here until next week.

I figured since this is just a mock up assembly that I might be able to "fix" the steering arm studs enough to get them together.
So, I had at it with a file and after about 3 hours I had them good enough that nuts would go on easily with a ratchet.

It was now time to carry on with the assembly.
I made it this far.

To refresh, this is a custom built housing with IFS hubs, some beefy steering arms and some adapters to use 05+ Tacoma rotors and calipers.

Almost seems a shame that the rear is just some crap I whipped up from a couple of stock land cruiser housings.
I am going to have to fix that at some point but for now it will have to work.

So now that the housing is together it's time to slap some tires on it and wheel it under the van.
WRONG!

I found 4 lug nuts pretty easily when I put the tires on the rear axle so I assumed that there were more floating around somewhere.
Nope.
So I went to the local parts stores and none had a single pack in stock.
Defeated, I rode back home empty handed and hit up Rock Auto to order a whole set of 24 nuts.

They will not be here until next Wednesday.

So whats next?
Well I needed a little reinforcement welded on my front control arms so I when ahead and knocked that out.

I then installed all the rest of the bushings in the control arms and all my other links.

I decided to bolt in a couple of the control arms to see where we stand.

It's a good thing I did not drill any of the holes to bolt my sub-frame in yet because it is totally not located correctly.
It's a little tough to see in these pics but there is about 1.75 inches of space between the axle and the inside of that axle bracket.

With the tire centered in the wheel well, which it is, the axle should be fully seated in the bracket.

Having the front control arm installed, I verified that it was indeed the sub-frame that was not located correctly and not a calculation error or some screwed up parts.

No biggie I just need to loosen the clamps that are holding the sub-frame in place and move it forward.
I did just sorta guess where it needed to go when I initially installed it so there is no surprise that its not in the right place.

So with a lack of parts shutting down the fun for the time being I decided I would finish up a couple little odds and ends.
First in the list was adding a little stiffness to my skid plate/transfer case mount/cross member.

I got a few parts cut and a few parts welded in only to run out of gas for the welder.

Here is a quick pic to show you what I am going for.

The final design for this part will be much less complicated but I am just working with what I have for now.

I did manage to wander out to my local independent Subaru shop and source a junk, mock-up transmission.
A friend of mine has a mock-up engine so I will make the rounds next week to pick all of it up.
I can then use it all to see where we stand with the rear axle/transmission clearance.
With that knowledge I can determine the path forward.

So there you have it.
This is what a weeks worth of work got me.
Admittedly there was a lot of fiddling around.
I did not get started as soon as I should have every day and probably should have stayed in the garage a bit longer every day but hey; All work and no play makes Bill a dull boy.
After all I did take a week off work and it was nice and I have a new motorcycle that was just begging for a blast out some back roads.

Perhaps I can knock a couple of chunks off next week as more parts start rolling in.

Until next time...

 

[SirMrManGuy]

If you haven't bought an air compressor, the other option is to use co2. I used to have a SAS Nissan Pathfinder with two air lockers and I ran them off a paintball tank, which would last a season of wheeling.

Also consider avoiding the solenoids and use air switches. The part number I used was clippard MJTV-3...11 years later and I still remember that for some reason.

Put a pressure release valve in the system, to avoid blowing the seals in the locker I think i used 110psi.

 

[philos]

One or two spare deep freezers...


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[vwhammer]

One or two spare deep freezers...

Yes?
They are pretty small at about a cubic foot in volume.
Actually some of you may remember the coleman Stirling cooler that was built a long time ago.

The company that I worked for licensed their Stirling cooler technology to Coleman and the units were built by a company called Twinbird out of Japan.
After nobody wanted a $400-$500 cooler back in late 90's-early 2000's money, they stopped selling the product.

Our company then worked with Twinbird to supply the exact same housing for our new, much more powerful, Stirling powered, ultra low temp lab freezer.

Since I was the Technician tasked with developing the prototypes and production methods at the time, I ended up with a couple failed designs or units that did not meet minimum temp requirements.
Actually most people that worked with us at that time all ended up with a couple.

Does that answer your question?.. If there was a question...
If not then everyone just got a little background on me and a little history lesson about the Stirling powered cooler by Coleman.

 

[vwhammer]

If you haven't bought an air compressor, the other option is to use co2. I used to have a SAS Nissan Pathfinder with two air lockers and I ran them off a paintball tank, which would last a season of wheeling.

Also consider avoiding the solenoids and use air switches. The part number I used was clippard MJTV-3...11 years later and I still remember that for some reason.

Put a pressure release valve in the system, to avoid blowing the seals in the locker I think i used 110psi.

I am not really interested in CO2.
Back in the day we did use it once or twice on some of the "air-bagged" cars and trucks that we built.
With continuous use we did have issues with the solenoid type valves freezing.
Not that that is my reason for not wanting CO2
I understand that you don't have to fill that often but I don't want to have to rely on getting it filled when I need to.
With a compressor and tank I will not have to think about it.
I also intend to fill tires as well as running the lockers.


The switches have crossed my mind.
Actually the first car I ever built with an air bag suspension had air switches run up to the console rather than having the solenoid valves.
I just do not want to run air lines up to the valves in the dash or wherever then have them run back out to the bags.
In my mind it is much more simple to run wires.
I have had pretty good success with Parker solenoid valves running in situations that they should not have been, well above the rated pressure.
This is likely the route I will go.

 

[Metcalf]

Just trying to catch up a bit.

The thin section on the radius arm for the 2nd bushing makes me a bit nervous. Generally all OEM radius arms you can find are pretty dang beefy in that area.....Land Rover or Toyota 80 series stuff.

Also, what is the link spacing on the sub-frame from centerline? Basically how wide is the radius arm mounting?

 

[vwhammer]

Are you referring to the thin section on top that I mentioned a while back and have since welded a 3/16 plate across the top of?
or the bottom of the arm?

Either way there is nearly a half inch of steel on the top and the bottom of that bushing.
Do you think it should be thicker?

To be honest I am not super pleased with the outcome of either set of radius arms.

I was thinking about heading back to the drawing board and having some more parts laser cut a for different joint arrangement for the top, bottom and sides
I would be welding on the corners and would not have to grind the welds down afterward.
I guess I did not have to grind them down this time but I was sort of going for a machined solid piece look.

Anyway I believe this will get me by for, at the very least, the mock up stage of this build.

Of course if I do more laser cut parts I can make the side profile look beefier but all of it would still just be boxed 3/16 or 1/4 inch flat stock.

My sleeves for the bushings are a bit on the loose side anyway so I am eventually going to have to build some more at some point to be really comfortable with them long term.

I wanted to use some of those rubber joints from Metalcloak but at 40 bux a pop I don't think that is going to happen anytime soon.
Also if one needed a replacement bushing in the field it might be tough getting a Metalcloak joint if you were stranded in Guatemala, for example.
I suppose you could take a few spares if you were really going to be out there a while...But I digress.

As far as your Radius arm spacing question, the joints are 32 inches apart center to center.

 

[Metcalf]

Yup, even with the plate welded over it the assembly makes me nervous. If it was just a regular link that would be fine. With the roads from the small radius arm link, I think it won't be the best design. I have a feeling the loads on that part of the link are pretty dang high during something like a panic braking situation.

I'd so something easy to find for bushings like a lower control arm bushing for a Jeep TJ/XJ/JK. Those actually hold up pretty dang well overall. I don't think your really going to need anything fancy for bushings on this unless your going to have more than a 14" travel shock.

The 32" arm spacing sounds good. In the pictures it looked a lot more narrow to the eye.

If you need a solution for a loose bushing housing, use some loctite bore compound. I can get you a number. That stuff works.

Crazy totally impractical idea I have been tossing around for my new project, have a set of radius arms waterjet cut out of something like 1.25" thick 6061-T6 aluminum......

 

[screwball48]

Those are a lot beefier than the stock ones on a Jeep Cherokee.


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[vwhammer]

Yup, even with the plate welded over it the assembly makes me nervous. If it was just a regular link that would be fine. With the roads from the small radius arm link, I think it won't be the best design. I have a feeling the loads on that part of the link are pretty dang high during something like a panic braking situation.

I'd so something easy to find for bushings like a lower control arm bushing for a Jeep TJ/XJ/JK. Those actually hold up pretty dang well overall. I don't think your really going to need anything fancy for bushings on this unless your going to have more than a 14" travel shock.

The 32" arm spacing sounds good. In the pictures it looked a lot more narrow to the eye.

If you need a solution for a loose bushing housing, use some loctite bore compound. I can get you a number. That stuff works.

Crazy totally impractical idea I have been tossing around for my new project, have a set of radius arms waterjet cut out of something like 1.25" thick 6061-T6 aluminum......

Hmm. Well now, not only do you have me a little concerned, I am a little excited to work on a new design.
Initially I was going to have them cut from a solid piece of aluminum but the material alone was more money than I could spend at the time.
I then tossed around an "I beam" type construction but felt like that would have nowhere near the torsional rigidity that a boxed arm would have.
I also do not currently have a welder that will weld the 1/2" material that the I beam style would have likely been made from.
I would also like to change the profile a bit to gain a bit more clearance under the arm along the length.
I guess what I am trying to say is that I will likley head back to the drawing board and come up with something better.

I do like the jeep bushing idea.
Especially since the same bushing is used across a range of vehicles.

So when you say "arm spacing" do you mean front to back or left to right?

That 32 inch number is left to right.
The distance between the mounting points for the front and rear arm is 19 inches if I recall correctly.

It's only metal. It's only money. It's only time.
I will sort it out.
I believe it was a cocky chopper builder that once said, I am paraphrasing here, I'm not afraid to toss something I built in the trash if it sucks. If it sucks, it sucks no matter how much time I spent on it.

 

[jalbrecht55]

Pretty neat project you have going on here.

Something I'm curious about on the drivetrain.... i feel like I missed something somewhere. It looks like you are using the rear output of the Subaru transmission to drive the rover tcase through the PTO output which then drives flipped Toyota differentials. Right?

On the subaru transmissions I've looked at, (older manual ones) the rear output comes off the countershaft, so it spins counter clockwise (reverse of "normal"). Is that the case with your automatic?

If so it seems your trans output and tcase will be spinning clockwise as viewed from the front of the van, so you would want your differentials "normal" and not flipped.

Someone made a comment about driving the tcase through the PTO port to reverse the rotation but it's straight through to the output, and connected by a chain to the outputs, right? So it wouldn't reverse anything... What did I miss here...?

 

[Haf-E]

The rover t-case is all gears not chain. So there is a reversal that occurs inside it.