Water purification, LED UV, specifics....

[Ramdough]

The OP does not want to hear about chlorine treatment, but it makes a lot of sense, so here goes.
We regularly pick up water from creeks, dams and cattle troughs in the bush in Oz and I did my research about 16 years ago and since then have used a combination of chlorine and filtration, not just in Oz but also in some of the more remote corners of eastern Europe.

First observation is that lovely potable water that you filled your tank with a week ago may not be potable any longer. This is especially true in the tropics where that water might be stored at 30C or maybe higher, the PERFECT environment for those bugs to grow very fast.
But so what? It is not what is in the tank that counts, it is what comes out of the tap. Bugs DO grow in the dark.

Our methodology is this:
1. Treat all water with sodium hypochlorite as the tank is filled. This stuff breaks down quite quickly on its own, especially if the water quality is poor and especially at warmer temperatures, so regular dosing is required to keep the chlorine level up.
2. Filter after the pump and immediately before the tap.
We use a 5um sediment filter (simply to take the large particles out to protect the finer filter), followed by a 0.5um carbon block filter with silver. The carbon block will remove most pathogens, but there should be none anyway f the chlorine is kept up. The carbon block also removes any remaining chlorine.
Simple and effective.

A few "BUTS" to watch.
Fine filters are a great place for nasties to propagate. This is particularly the case if the system is unused for some time. The silver inhibits this growth, but after more than a couple of days of no use, the system should be flushed with 10L of well chlorinated water before consumption. Regular use and regular chlorination is the key to an ongoing safe water supply.
Chlorine concentration is easily checked with readily available test strips, but we tend to work on the basis that if you can not detect the chlorine by nose in unfiltered water, there is probably not enough.
We use 10" filter cartridges. Change them at least annually.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

Could you link to the filters you use? I have not seen silver impregnated 10” filters before (but I looked).


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[Peter_n_Margaret]

Bought on line in Oz. Sorry, no link.
Then again if you follow the non use advise, it should not be important.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

 

[Alloy]

The OP does not want to hear about chlorine treatment, but it makes a lot of sense, so here goes.
We regularly pick up water from creeks, dams and cattle troughs in the bush in Oz and I did my research about 16 years ago and since then have used a combination of chlorine and filtration, not just in Oz but also in some of the more remote corners of eastern Europe.

First observation is that lovely potable water that you filled your tank with a week ago may not be potable any longer. This is especially true in the tropics where that water might be stored at 30C or maybe higher, the PERFECT environment for those bugs to grow very fast.
But so what? It is not what is in the tank that counts, it is what comes out of the tap. Bugs DO grow in the dark.

Our methodology is this:
1. Treat all water with sodium hypochlorite as the tank is filled. This stuff breaks down quite quickly on its own, especially if the water quality is poor and especially at warmer temperatures, so regular dosing is required to keep the chlorine level up.
2. Filter after the pump and immediately before the tap.
We use a 5um sediment filter (simply to take the large particles out to protect the finer filter), followed by a 0.5um carbon block filter with silver. The carbon block will remove most pathogens, but there should be none anyway f the chlorine is kept up. The carbon block also removes any remaining chlorine.
Simple and effective.

A few "BUTS" to watch.
Fine filters are a great place for nasties to propagate. This is particularly the case if the system is unused for some time. The silver inhibits this growth, but after more than a couple of days of no use, the system should be flushed with 10L of well chlorinated water before consumption. Regular use and regular chlorination is the key to an ongoing safe water supply.
Chlorine concentration is easily checked with readily available test strips, but we tend to work on the basis that if you can not detect the chlorine by nose in unfiltered water, there is probably not enough.
We use 10" filter cartridges. Change them at least annually.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

My buddy picked up Giardia (most common water infection with 15,000-20,000 cases/year in USA) 30 years ago and has lived with IBS since.

Bergen Open Research Archive: Giardiasis in Bergen. Outbreak and clinical consequences.

bora.uib.no

When I read water filter threads I wonder if people know what they are putting their purified Carbon Block - UV or RO (no chlorine) water into. Water stored in a open container starts growing stuff within days if there isn't chemical treatment. Draining tanks doesn't work because there is always 1/4"-1" of water + condensation that remains.

My choice of treatment for the last 10 year is 2% chlorine dioxide added after the (10µ -0.5µ Carbon Block) filters to reach at 4-5 (confirmed with test strips)ppm. ClO2 is it isn't corrosive, last for months (2-3ppm after 3-5 months) in the tanks and system and is only active if there is stuff in the water.

Chlorine Dioxide - Chemical Safety Facts

Chlorine dioxide is a reddish or yellowish-green gas at room temperature that dissolves in water.

www.chemicalsafetyfacts.org

I've had both the tap water in our house and 3 month old water out of the tank tested. The tank water is better than the city water.

....after making sure the water is safe to drink I light the campfire, sit down and breath smoke for 3-4 hours....

 

[Alloy]

Could you link to the filters you use? I have not seen silver impregnated 10” filters before (but I looked).


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SCBC-10 Silvered Carbon Block by Pentek

Don't bring a knife to a gun fight, be ready with the SCBC-10 Silvered Carbon Block by Pentek from WaterFilters.net

www.waterfilters.net

 

[Ramdough]

Bought on line in Oz. Sorry, no link.
Then again if you follow the non use advise, it should not be important.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

Do you mind sharing the brand or where online you bought them?

Thanks!


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[Ramdough]

Well, I just found something that says silver in your filter is a waste. Anyone have any better info?

About Silver Impregnated Carbon - Useless Sales Tactic

From North Dakota State University Silver impregnated carbon Some compounds of silver have been used as disinfectants Silver has been added to certain

www.apswater.com

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[Alloy]

Well, I just found something that says silver in your filter is a waste. Anyone have any better info?

About Silver Impregnated Carbon - Useless Sales Tactic

From North Dakota State University Silver impregnated carbon Some compounds of silver have been used as disinfectants Silver has been added to certain

www.apswater.com

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It doesn't say what filters they tested or how they did the tests.

My understanding has been (and could be wrong) silver doesn't improve filtration but it prevents stuff from growing in/thru the filter medium but if there's only a thin layer then it won't last.

Berkey filters last for years.

Do the Black Berkey® Purification Elements have silver in them? – Berkey Knowledge Base

berkeywaterkb.com

 

[IdaSHO]

The OP does not want to hear about chlorine treatment, but it makes a lot of sense, so here goes.
We regularly pick up water from creeks, dams and cattle troughs in the bush in Oz and I did my research about 16 years ago and since then have used a combination of chlorine and filtration, not just in Oz but also in some of the more remote corners of eastern Europe.

First observation is that lovely potable water that you filled your tank with a week ago may not be potable any longer. This is especially true in the tropics where that water might be stored at 30C or maybe higher, the PERFECT environment for those bugs to grow very fast.
But so what? It is not what is in the tank that counts, it is what comes out of the tap. Bugs DO grow in the dark.

Our methodology is this:
1. Treat all water with sodium hypochlorite as the tank is filled. This stuff breaks down quite quickly on its own, especially if the water quality is poor and especially at warmer temperatures, so regular dosing is required to keep the chlorine level up.
2. Filter after the pump and immediately before the tap.
We use a 5um sediment filter (simply to take the large particles out to protect the finer filter), followed by a 0.5um carbon block filter with silver. The carbon block will remove most pathogens, but there should be none anyway f the chlorine is kept up. The carbon block also removes any remaining chlorine.
Simple and effective.

A few "BUTS" to watch.
Fine filters are a great place for nasties to propagate. This is particularly the case if the system is unused for some time. The silver inhibits this growth, but after more than a couple of days of no use, the system should be flushed with 10L of well chlorinated water before consumption. Regular use and regular chlorination is the key to an ongoing safe water supply.
Chlorine concentration is easily checked with readily available test strips, but we tend to work on the basis that if you can not detect the chlorine by nose in unfiltered water, there is probably not enough.
We use 10" filter cartridges. Change them at least annually.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

Thanks for the input

You are correct, that I'm not considering any kind of chemical treatment at this time.
Doesn't matter why. I'm just not, and I will only consider it if I fail to put together a reliable system that does not use chemicals (not likely)

And you are also correct with regards to "potable" water becoming questionable after some time in a tank.
All the more reason I'm leaning towards to final filtration and purification at point of use, which will provide purified water no matter the source.

 

[ChadHahn]

Tip of the day. You can make the smoothest whiskey from rot gut whiskey by running it thru a charcoal filter. Granted it will not have to color and aged taste but it will be smooth.

Works on Vodka as well. I used to buy the cheapest store brand vodka, run it through my Brita a few times and had some pretty decent booze.

 

[charlesrg]

Thanks for the input

You are correct, that I'm not considering any kind of chemical treatment at this time.
Doesn't matter why. I'm just not, and I will only consider it if I fail to put together a reliable system that does not use chemicals (not likely)

And you are also correct with regards to "potable" water becoming questionable after some time in a tank.
All the more reason I'm leaning towards to final filtration and purification at point of use, which will provide purified water no matter the source.

On my design I'm planning on 100micron pre-filter to remove sediments before the tank, from there shower water goes straight to use, kitchen/drink water will go to 3 stages filtration something like 30micron then 15micron then 5 micron charcoal activated that should remove the chlorine.
I will add chlorinate to the tank once in a while to avoid it turning green. I just think it will be impossible to keep the water tank clean without adding chlorine. Chlorine will be removed before drinking by the 3rd stage.
I also have an UV filter that will go before the tap.

 

[Joe917]

On my design I'm planning on 100micron pre-filter to remove sediments before the tank, from there shower water goes straight to use, kitchen/drink water will go to 3 stages filtration something like 30micron then 15micron then 5 micron charcoal activated that should remove the chlorine.
I will add chlorinate to the tank once in a while to avoid it turning green. I just think it will be impossible to keep the water tank clean without adding chlorine. Chlorine will be removed before drinking by the 3rd stage.
I also have an UV filter that will go before the tap.

You should take another look at your filter choices, do a little more research. A100 micron pre filter is basically an old sock.
I suggest 5 micron pre filter, 0.5 micron carbon block.

 

[Peter_n_Margaret]

The final filter needs to be 0.5um to remove most pathogens.
And make sure you chlorinate the shower water too.
Legionella will happily grow in the tank (especially if the water gets a tad warm) and is easily breathed in during showering.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

This has been one of the most frustrating, mish mash info related parts of my build also.

I currently have a 3 filter setup down to 0.2 microns (https://www.clearsourcerv.com/colle...hree-canister-external-rv-water-filter-system), but adding the UV final stage has been frustrating as youre finding out.

Main issue i have been finding is the insanely slow flow rates of all these UV system. Check that out closely. The portable Guzzle seems to have the best flow rate, but doesnt quite fit my needs at this time.

From the crazy amount of stuff i read, it seems the Acuva Arrow-5 system would suit my needs best and take up the least amount of valuable space.

But in the ONE YEAR since i got my water system done, the tech keeps changing and updating, so i am stuck in the "I am just going to wait and see what comes out soon"

FWIW, in my setup, i use a screw on 0.5 micron filter onto a hose to fill the tank. Then my 3 filter setup is the first thing the water enters after the tank so as to clean the pump as clean as possible.

Sooo... To recap, i am of zero help with your quest, but i feel your pain.

Carry on

 

[Guzzle H2O]

Hi Everyone,

While we are big fans of the forums here in Expedition Portal, we have had a busy fall and just noticed the discussion going on here. A lot of good info here already, but perhaps we can elaborate on LED UV tech if there are further questions.

LED based UV is a great final stage for any mobile water purification system. Guzzle H2O systems are 3rd party tested to be at least 99.99% effective against bacteria, protozoa, and viruses. UV has been a trusted sanitization method for a long time, but the LED construction makes it rugged and maintenance free. Also the low power consumption (less than 1A) and native 12V compatibility makes it ideal for adventure vehicle installations. Another thing is the ability to instantly switch on and off means there is no warm up time, and only consumes power when actively treating water. The UV component we use does have a great flow rate at about 2gpm.

For prefiltration it is important to filter down to 5 microns or less prior to the UV stage to make sure there is nothing shielding critters from the UV rays. Finer filtration is always better, which is why our systems use 0.5 micron filters.

UV of course only addresses microbiological hazards, which is why all of our systems pair LED UV with Activated Solid Block Carbon filters.

These are the basics, happy to answer further questions. Feel free to post them here, or you can email us as well at info@guzzleh2o.com.

 

[WanderingBison]

For what it’s worth, I went through the same agony of research and attempt at finding the ideal solution - I’m not sure I found it but I’m really happy with the solution I’ve been using for nearly two years now.

I fill our water storage (four 5 gallon Jerry cans manifolded into my water system for a number of reasons) using a Guzzle H2O Stream portable system, and then re-filter/treat the water at a point of use faucet for our drinking/cooking water.

While this may seem like overkill, being sick on the road SUCKS so I figure it best to be safe than sorry.

It’s the same reason why I will use our Guzzle UV system to fill out on-board water storage regardless of where I fill!

I’m sure there are many times I treating safe water, I’ve also had a filter clogged from brown sediment/rust from a town’s “safe” water source, even after I asked the visitor centre if the water was safe, and discovered that the “safe” water source at a National Park where we filled was the subject of a boil water advisory less than a week later when we returned.

In either case, it’s not likely that I would have gotten sick for either fill, getting sick SUCKS, so I’m very happy that I’m a little obtuse about water .

Re-treating the water to fill a water bottle just ensure that it’s still safe, even if for some reason I developed some bacteria while sitting in my rig.

I had to set things up a bit differently with the Guzzle but it’s really not that complicated.

Yes, the flow rate of the Guzzle H2O Stream is not great, but I know I will have to plan 7-9 minutes per 5 gallon Jerry can so I plan accordingly. And for the point of use re-treat, the flow rate is more than adequate to fill a couple of water bottles or a pot for soup, etc.

I did look at the Acuva but when I discovered the Guzzle H2O for essentially the same price while also providing me a portable, battery powered system that I can use from a tap or from a stream or river, the decision was easy.

As [mention]RAM5500 CAMPERTHING [/mention] pointed out, LED UV solutions are evolving quickly and as a lot of technology solutions, six months or a year can bring some significant advances.

Hope this helps.


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