Water tank placement

ReluctantTraveler

Well-known member
The expedition truck/hard-side flatbed truck camper I’m planning has large fresh and gray water tanks (95 gallons+ and 40 gallons+ respectively).

I want the camper to be four season, so I’m planning to keep them in the living space.

should be located on opposite sides (driver and passenger) to balance the weight better? Can they go on the same side?

there will be an indoor shower, so trying to figure out where to place everything to properly route lines is a little tricky.
 

1000arms

Well-known member
I suggest you put them both on the same side (of the F-550 that you were considering). 95 gallons (US) of water is about 790 pounds, 40 gallons is about 330 pounds. If you use all of the fresh water and fill the gray tank, you will about 460 pounds lighter on the tank side, BUT if you had the tanks on opposite sides, you would much more significantly change the balance as you emptied the fresh water tank and filled the gray tank (although it is a F-550 rather than a 150/250/350).

Even if you couldn't dump the grey tank while camping (in a given spot), if you could add fresh water, you might want a larger gray tank.

You might want to use TWO fresh water tanks in case one breaks/leaks.
 

ReluctantTraveler

Well-known member
Even if you couldn't dump the grey tank while camping (in a given spot), if you could add fresh water, you might want a larger gray tank.

You might want to use TWO fresh water tanks in case one breaks/leaks.

Also, these are both great suggestions. I see a lot of builds with gray tanks at half capacity of the fresh water, but I suspect I'll end up with matching capacity. I like the idea of splitting the fresh water into two tanks.

How does that work? Do you gravity feed from one to the other, or use a few pipes with on/off valves?

And on a personal note, thank you so much @1000arms for all of your guidance and help over the last month or two. It's truly been invaluable!
 

1000arms

Well-known member
I suggest you put them both on the same side (of the F-550 that you were considering). 95 gallons (US) of water is about 790 pounds, 40 gallons is about 330 pounds. If you use all of the fresh water and fill the gray tank, you will about 460 pounds lighter on the tank side, BUT if you had the tanks on opposite sides, you would much more significantly change the balance as you emptied the fresh water tank and filled the gray tank (although it is a F-550 rather than a 150/250/350).

Even if you couldn't dump the grey tank while camping (in a given spot), if you could add fresh water, you might want a larger gray tank.

You might want to use TWO fresh water tanks in case one breaks/leaks.
Also, these are both great suggestions. I see a lot of builds with gray tanks at half capacity of the fresh water, but I suspect I'll end up with matching capacity. I like the idea of splitting the fresh water into two tanks.

How does that work? Do you gravity feed from one to the other, or use a few pipes with on/off valves?

And on a personal note, thank you so much @1000arms for all of your guidance and help over the last month or two. It's truly been invaluable!
Plumb the water tanks so that you can select which one will feed the water pump (carry a spare pump), and make sure that one water tank leaking can't drain the other water tank.

You might want to check shipping costs. 4 "smaller" tanks (versus 2-3) might be cheaper to ship because of how they might fit on a pallet. 4 tanks total (2-3 water and 1-2 gray) might be easier to fit where you need them while still giving you the capacity you want.

Check Ronco Tanks. They make many sizes. Remember that you can get them as water tanks, as holding tanks, as blank tanks, or with custom location openings. The standard water tank openings (for fresh water) and the standard holding tank openings (for gray) would probably work best for you, and be the easiest to replace. Shop around on prices, remember to check shipping, and allow for tank manufacturing variances when designing your camper.


A couple of 5-7 gallon water jugs, in addition to your water tank(s), would give you a bit more capacity, and allow you to carry extra water to your vehicle.

You are welcome! :)
 

ReluctantTraveler

Well-known member
One other thought: the completed living space looks like it will be about 8’ tall.

Would it be worth adding a 1’ basement for the tanks?

that would let me center them in the rig, lower the center of gravity, and provide a bit more flexibility about where I place everything. I believe EarthCruisers are setup like that.

I’m not entirely sure how I would hit that space yet. Adding vents seems like a good way to have water leak down below the floor. But there are some benefits to that design as well.
 

1000arms

Well-known member
One other thought: the completed living space looks like it will be about 8’ tall.

Would it be worth adding a 1’ basement for the tanks?

that would let me center them in the rig, lower the center of gravity, and provide a bit more flexibility about where I place everything. I believe EarthCruisers are setup like that.

I’m not entirely sure how I would hit that space yet. Adding vents seems like a good way to have water leak down below the floor. But there are some benefits to that design as well.
You might want to have a basement, but think about an 18" to 24" basement. Put the water tanks and waste tanks between the wheels and above the rear axle, and forward of the rear axle as needed. Create access to them through the floor of the camper (like a boat). Also plan the tank fill, drain, and vent lines with exterior access. (You don't want risk spilling waste water inside the camper.) Create external-access boxes under the camper floor (as part of the basement) for skis, snowboards, ...

Many cabover beds have little height and are cramped. A basement+camper body that matches the cabover height would likely work well for you.

Having the camper+cabover of one height will make it easier for anyone spotting the driver moving under a tree-limb/...

Having the camper+cabover of one height might make it easier to clear of snow.

A true flatbed sits above the frame high enough to avoid having wheel wells. Some "flatbeds" have wheel wells to sit lower down. (Some box trucks have wheel well, some don't. Those that don't sit higher off the ground, with a higher center of gravity.)

You could have a custom "flatbed" made with wheel wells, and boxes outside under the edges of the bed, but, this will cost more than a stock flatbed and likely have a longer build time.


I quoted myself a couple of times and marked some things in red for you. Although you are thinking of a flatbed, I have included a note about a pickup truck to help you with the visualization. Please see below:

Keep in mind that everything is a compromise. Figure out what works for you. A fixed wall hard-sided camper may be too tall to fit under some bridges/overpasses, but doesn't require time to set up in the rain or snow.

Go as light as you safely can to minimize the truck needed to carry your camper.

Check in to insurance for your rig before you buy anything. The answers might influence your choice.

With the above in mind, many people easily insure a 4x4 CCLB DRW pickup truck, especially with a gas engine.

Minimize weight far behind the rear axle, but keep in mind that empty bunks while driving aren't the same as putting a 100 gallon water tank over the "tailgate".

2017+ Ford F-350 pickup trucks have a very stiff fully-boxed frame.

Although it would create a tall (but road legal) rig, one could build a slide-in truck camper (from plywood, rigid foam insulation, and epoxy/fiberglass) that has a "basement" between and below the pickup truck bed-rails, with the main body above the pickup bed and extending out to the width of the DRWs. Such a rig could have a tall and comfortable cabover above the cab of the CCLB. Put any water/gray/black tanks, and batteries, in the insulated basement.

You mentioned plywood and wood, so I suggest you look at the (hopefully soon to be released) second edition of Devlin's Boat Building Manual: How to Build Your Boat the Stitch-and-Glue Way, Second Edition or the much older first edition to get you started.



Consider making a frame from plywood. Three pieces of "3/4 inch" plywood could be glued together to allow 2" foam insulation to fit between skinning panels.


Look up @IdaSHO 's camper.

Check the following link for a link to GacoRoof and for a link to an image of IdaSHO's camper.


Take a look at Alaskan Campers for possible ideas.



You are welcome! :)

The Ford 2017+ F-350 is available as a pickup truck (complete vehicle) and as a chassis cab (incomplete vehicle). The Ford 2017+ F-350 pickup truck has a fully boxed frame, but the Ford 2017+ F-350 chassis cab has c-channel aft of the cab.

The frames are different. In addition, the pickup bed has wheel wells, but a true flatbed (think of the name "flatbed") is mounted high enough that wheel wells aren't needed (this is true for flatbeds designed for the pickup frame and for flatbeds designed for chassis cab frames). Making the best use of your available volume is important, but, how much money can/do you want to spend to get it?

If you make a removable camper, designed for either a flatbed or designed for a pickup truck bed, you have a removable camper. How difficult it will be to remove and install at a campsite? Will wind be any of issue, especially if you make a strong but light camper? Will you feel comfortable leaving the camper at a campsite? Will you want any bathroom/kitchen/cooler/fridge/freezer capabilities if you leave your camper behind for the day?

How big do you want your cabover to be? Many are pretty low, which does keep the overall height down, but really limits the cabover to cramped sleeping height.

Consider the gap between truck cab and cabover to avoid any contact due to flex, a cabover with an insulated floor and roof (and sides), an air gap under the mattress to help avoid mold, the mattress thickness, whether you want to be able to sit up in bed, and how much time will be spent awake in the cabover due to the number of people in a small volume camper.

Consider the above, calculate the height of the outside roof of the cabover, and then consider making the height of the outside main-body-roof the same. Doing so would allow you to put a basement below the main body while allowing a lot of headroom.

Especially with a crew cab, it makes sense to design a camper with a cabover bed, but, with a long enough truck bed, one could build a small cabover for storage and put all the beds down in the main body to keep the overall height down.

Stitch and glue boatbuilding has been going on for quite a while, and many boats are light but take a pounding. Really look into it because it will allow you to build a light, strong, waterproof camper. There are people on this forum making very good use of composites, but, you mentioned using plywood in your first post.

Take a look at Loctite PL-Premium construction adhesive, and at epoxy + fiberglass.


For foam:


Find a place to "build" your ideas out of tape-marks and cardboard. Test the fitting and arrangement.

Consider a flip-down shower-stall if you will be including a shower, and a swing-out toilet if you will be including a toilet. These can be out of the way as part of the cabinets when not in use.

Consider a couple of twin-XL-mattress Murphy beds, mounted sideways, to fold down into bunks, mounted on the back inside wall. Make them so they can be operated independently, allowing the bottom one to be used as a seat for two. Use a passenger-side entrance just in front where the beds would be in the down position and allow the "hallway" to be a place for TV-trays or another form of table. Keep the "corridor" going to the cabover about 4' wide with cabinets on each side. this will allow for internal space and moving around each other without feeling as if one is in a mosh pit.

Keep in mind that it is a balancing act. Do your best to keep any weight as low as you can, such as water and batteries, and above the the rear axle or slightly forward, but not so far forward that your front axle is overloaded. With a big cabover, a rear overhang can sort of balance it (but keep overall weight forward), which allow for light bunks and open space behind the axle. Just keep in mind that the longer the camper is, the more surface more wind to push against.

Look at marine plywood weights, as well as Baltic Birch plywood if you can get it. You could calculate frame weights and skin weights. Check on epoxy and fiberglass too. Remember, you don't need to make the frame out 4x4s and the skins from 3/4" plywood. :)

Your cabinets can be part of your structural design to support the roof (and overnight snow).

Make sure everything can be glued-and-screwed to something solid. (Stitch and glue.)

1/4" plywood skins over a frame with 2" rigid foam plus epoxy and fiberglass will be strong and light.

Basement model slide-in truck-campers tend to be taller than none-basement models.

...
 

ReluctantTraveler

Well-known member
You might want to have a basement, but think about an 18" to 24" basement.

Why that much? From looking on Ronco it looks like there are quite a few tanks high-volume tanks that are 12" or shorter. I'm guessing you need some height above them for pipes to come in/out?

Put the water tanks and waste tanks between the wheels and above the rear axle, and forward of the rear axle as needed. Create access to them through the floor of the camper (like a boat). Also plan the tank fill, drain, and vent lines with exterior access. (You don't want risk spilling waste water inside the camper.) Create external-access boxes under the camper floor (as part of the basement) for skis, snowboards, ...

That's the plan!

Many cabover beds have little height and are cramped. A basement+camper body that matches the cabover height would likely work well for you.

Indeed! For simplicity of building, I planned to do one flat height across the top. 3.5' high interior in the cabover, about 4' over the cab once you factor in a gap plus the thickness of the habitat.

A true flatbed sits above the frame high enough to avoid having wheel wells. Some "flatbeds" have wheel wells to sit lower down. (Some box trucks have wheel well, some don't. Those that don't sit higher off the ground, with a higher center of gravity.)

I've been trying to figure out how high above the wheels a typical flatbed sits. I've literally been researching it for the last two days, but can't find a clearcut answer.

Eyeballing some photos, about 5-6" seems to be the norm on trucks that aren't doing heavy offroading with lots of articulation. Is that right?

It matters for calculating the total interior space in the rig, since I'm working off a fixed height and measuring down to the flatbed.
 

1000arms

Well-known member
Why that much? From looking on Ronco it looks like there are quite a few tanks high-volume tanks that are 12" or shorter. I'm guessing you need some height above them for pipes to come in/out? ...
The 18"-24" basement I suggested includes the insulated basement floor up to, but not including, the floor of the camper.

Two Ronco water tanks and two Ronco waste tanks (they are listed as one, but the openings are different) should allow one to fit them between the dual wheels (even though a true flatbed will sit above the wheels) and between the front of the camper and about the center of the rear axle. Put one water and one waste over/in-front-of the axle, and put one waste and one water in front of them. The switching of the water/waste tanks will minimize balance changes as you use the tanks as long as the water tank is used and empties in to the waste tank beside it (rather than the tank in front of it or behind it).

B156Water / Waste Holding Tank5040L x 20W x 16H

With these size tanks, you could probably design your camper so that you can install, and replace if needed, your tanks from inside your camper. Heating them and inspecting them would be easier than if they were wide-but-short tanks in a short basement with only external access..

Make sure to use flexible material so that vibration won't destroy the connections/tanks.
... Indeed! For simplicity of building, I planned to do one flat height across the top. 3.5' high interior in the cabover, about 4' over the cab once you factor in a gap plus the thickness of the habitat. ...

Going up a bit in height might give you a lot more basement storage space. You could have a lot of internal storage under the floor behind the water and waste tanks, and a lot of externally-accessed storage too.

... I've been trying to figure out how high above the wheels a typical flatbed sits. I've literally been researching it for the last two days, but can't find a clearcut answer.

Eyeballing some photos, about 5-6" seems to be the norm on trucks that aren't doing heavy offroading with lots of articulation. Is that right?

It matters for calculating the total interior space in the rig, since I'm working off a fixed height and measuring down to the flatbed.
Call Duramag (Truck Beds) and ask them. :)
 
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ReluctantTraveler

Well-known member
The 18"-24" basement I suggested includes the insulated basement floor up to, but not including, the floor of the camper.

Two Ronco water tanks and two Ronco waste tanks (they are listed as one, but the openings are different) should allow one to fit them between the dual wheels (even though a true flatbed will sit above the wheels) and between the front of the camper and about the center of the rear axle. Put one water and one waste over/in-front-of the axle, and put one waste and one water in front of them. The switching of the water/waste tanks will minimize balance changes as you use the tanks as long as the water tank is used and empties in to the waste tank beside it (rather than the tank in front of it or behind it).

With a setup like this, do you connect one waste tank to the other (so as one fills, it flows into the other one), or have a splitter that funnels water into both evenly? (I'm assuming you'd use the same approach for fresh, just in reverse).

Going up a bit in height might give you a lot more basement storage space. You could have a lot of internal storage under the floor behind the water and waste tanks, and a lot of externally-accessed storage too.

The current design has the total rig height at 11'. I measured the height from my bed to my head while sitting fully upright, then added 6" or so. My wife is shorter than me, so that will give her even more generous headroom.

The current plans also include a raised dinette with enough space underneath to store four bikes, or a bunch of other stuff. I figured I'd use cargo boxes on the flatbed for additional storage.
 

1000arms

Well-known member
With a setup like this, do you connect one waste tank to the other (so as one fills, it flows into the other one), or have a splitter that funnels water into both evenly? (I'm assuming you'd use the same approach for fresh, just in reverse). ...
Any leak in a tank or connection would likely drain the other tank as well. Connecting the two fresh water tanks together (without any control valves) would eliminate the safety factor of having two fresh water tanks.

You could connect the gray water tanks, but, I would suggest shutoff valves for each tank in case of emergency.
... The current design has the total rig height at 11'. I measured the height from my bed to my head while sitting fully upright, then added 6" or so. My wife is shorter than me, so that will give her even more generous headroom.

The current plans also include a raised dinette with enough space underneath to store four bikes, or a bunch of other stuff. I figured I'd use cargo boxes on the flatbed for additional storage.
Some people might want more room in the cabover for adult activities. :)

You could design your camper with the shorter basement and water tanks you mentioned, but I suggest you make it easy to get to those tanks for plumbing and replacement. Sometimes things happen, including manufacturer's defects.
 

ReluctantTraveler

Well-known member
Some people might want more room in the cabover for adult activities. :)

You could design your camper with the shorter basement and water tanks you mentioned, but I suggest you make it easy to get to those tanks for plumbing and replacement. Sometimes things happen, including manufacturer's defects.

I perhaps naively assumed that would be sufficient height. A lot of the campers I've seen have painfully small overheads, so I actually thought I was being generous with 3.5' of internal space (after accounting for the mattress and building material thickness).

Do you have a recommended size?
 

billiebob

Well-known member
I see a lot of builds with gray tanks at half capacity of the fresh water
yep.... but if you live in a municipality with trucked services the grey/black water tank must be double the fresh water tank capacity...
go figure how you can shower, brush yer teeth, eat and ******** less than the fresh water tank capacity
also, a water delivery was always AFTER the sewage tank was pumped dry

the 2 lites on the house indicate the water tank is full

DSC_03312656.jpg

DSCN3264.jpeg
 

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