Waterproofing my Rover: a guide and invitation

SeaRubi

Explorer
The first thing many newcomers seem to do upon purchase of their Rover is to immediately join the snorkel safari club and begin harboring the notion that suddenly their truck is a submarine. I think that a snorkel should be the last step to protecting your vehicle from water damage, but am having difficulty thinking through the necessary steps to take care of everything on my new-to-me D1. Below is a brain dump of what I have planned on my own, and also an invitation to the better prepared to fill gaps in the information and suggest corrections and additions. As the comments roll through I'll add them to this first post, categorized by system in the mind dump / list o' questions.

While this list is meant to be definitive for protecting against water, I want to point out that most of these items equally apply to dry, dusty climates, and at the very least make for smart, preventative maintenance. The difference between a sorted truck that's ready to provide thousands of miles of hard-use service and a daily driver that looks the part but breaks down after 500 miles could well have been a $20 preparation.


Beginning at bottom of the truck and moving up -

* Hubs and wheel bearings: It's important that the hub seals be in good shape to keep water out of the wheel bearings. A simple creek crossing at hub level and 500 mile highway jaunt can equate to being stranded. I'll be removing all four corners, repacking the bearings, and fitting new drive flange gaskets. At the same time I'll be fitting the improved double-lipped hub seals - p/n RTC3511.

* Swivel ball seals and lubrication: I'm of the opinion that if you live in a wet climate and your vehicle will be seeing a lot of creek crossings, 90wt is a better choice for the CV's since it's easier to drain the fluids and inspect for water and debris ingress. Since I'm in a relatively dry climate here in California, I'll be sticking with one-shot corn grease and regular CV inspections. It's critical that the swivel ball seals and swivel ball surface are in like-new condition. If they leak, they leak water and dirt inside! Countless popped CV's probably would have lasted longer had they not been neglected.

* tie rod ends and ujoints should all be replaced with serviceable items. water ingress to the caps and under the TRE boot lead to corrosion and failure. Part numbers? My TRE's are shot. U-Joints look old. Will try to chase down p/n's in some of the older threads and update this one.

* Differential breather tubes: some folks tap the axle housing for larger diameter hose. I feel this is unnecessary, but do not think less of others for doing it. I'll be running new breather tubes. Up front, just up to the height of the cowl. In the rear, I might run it a bit higher inside of the aft most pillar, as the ******** end of the truck is often in deeper than the front trying to climb out at an angle.

* Automatic transmission breather tube: need recommendations here - does the D1 have a tube routed to the firewall already? Is there a breather valve?

* Door seals. Inspect and replace as necessary. There's really no way to keep the truck from flooding if you submarine it, but having missing or damaged seals can lead to water ingress to the cab during crossings that might not have otherwise occurred.

* ECU. This is an often overlooked preparation. Swamp your truck in a big water hole, then burn up the ECU after flooding the cab. Makes for a bad day. I enclosed my last rover's ECU in a tupperware container. It's out of sight, cheap, and it works. The biggest issue I had not addressed was securing it back to the floor. Drill the container for the wiring loom, fit a properly sized rubber grommet and then apply silicone from the inside of the container around the grommet.

** question: I believe the ECU for the windows is located underneath the drivers side side, correct? burnt up windows would suck. I'll probably encase it as well.

* Fan cut-off switch. This seems to be a very popular modification in Australia, where often they are faced with deep water crossings with not much choice but to go through. I intend to inline a simple toggle switch to the two auxiliary cooling fans and place it up high on the firewall. I don't see any need to clutter up the cab with it.

* Distributor equipped 3.9's: Not an issue for me as I have a GEMS truck, but it's worth pointing out that some folks tap the distributor cap for a small tube and then rig it to their air-pumps to pressurize the distributor while going through the drink. This was on my list for the rangie before I got rid of it.

* Basic electrical prep: If there's a pigtail on anything electric below the hood, it's vulnerable to water damage. The factory has been good to us by mounting the alternator nice and high. It's noticeably higher on the GEMS engines compared to the 3.9L.

a) inspect the wiring looms for abrasion on the wires. repair or replace as necessary

b) liberally apply dialectric grease to the fittings. If the connection does get wet the grease will protect the small metal bits from corroding as they dry back out.

My standard loop applies to all head lamp, signal lamp, and tail lamp plugs. O2 sensor plugs, and then the other EFI sensor stuff like the MAF, coolant temp, etc.

Don't forget about your fuel pump harness and connector. These are *notorious* for corroding at the pig tail or on the wiring itself. It might be limping along to work and back just fine - but the first time that gets water on it you'll be stuck. Make sure it's clean and dab it with the grease.

Final note: I've heard stories of some folks going through and applying heat shrink tubing over the pigtail connections. I personally think this is a bad idea because if water gets in, it can't get back out and will lead to corrosion. It's also important to err on the side of easy visual inspection and quick maintenance than trying to make something 100% maintenance free. All of the electrical connections fit into this category, in my opinion.

* Ignition: your plug wires should be in good shape, anway, but if they aren't they'll be even worse when wet, making for a grumpy motor sans water event. I also dab the plug boots on both ends with dialectric grease

* flex hose to MAF and intake - inspect for dry rot and holes. there's no point in sealing up the airbox with a snorkel if there are holes downstream.

* airbox. The air box has holes in the bottom to allow for drainage in the event that water enters the horn. DO NOT PLUG THE HOLES unless you fit a snorkel. The horn is already pretty high in the corner. Deep wading is possible with a watchful eye of the water level. Also, I would not bother with a K&N type filter. It's easier to inspect the paper filter. It's also a good idea to pop the top to the airbox and look at the filter after a deep crossing to develop a sense of how wet the crossing actually was.

* snorkel. I'm loathe to join the snorkel safari look. There's a deep sense of bitterness and hatred that wells up inside of me for people with huge lifts, snorkels, and roof racks. It's just not how I roll. Those of you that are sold on them can keep the religion to yourself and go to bed at night comfortable in the belief that your truck is a submarine. I won't be losing any sleep over it. The one improvement of a snorkel setup that might push me into buying one is to gain the pre-cleaner for desert driving.

Any other suggestions? What I have a left-out or suggested incorrectly? Please add to the thread with the things you've done and feel free to point out mistakes or improvements, and specifics with part numbers, including preparations to other models. I'll try to keep the first post organized as well as possible as updates come through.

cheers,
-ike
 

David Harris

Expedition Leader
* Fan cut-off switch. This seems to be a very popular modification in Australia, where often they are faced with deep water crossings with not much choice but to go through. I intend to inline a simple toggle switch to the two auxiliary cooling fans and place it up high on the firewall. I don't see any need to clutter up the cab with it.

This takes care of the aux fans, but the mechanical fan is still going to spray water all over the engine. The only way around this is to replace it with an electric one as well, that is, unless you have a separate fan belt (non-serpentine), in which case you can just remove the fan belt. This is actually in the owner's manual on earlier Rovers along with putting a sheet of plastic over the grill and hood when wading.

Otherwise, it all looks good. You could still get water into the tranny through the tc seal, especially if you stall, as happened to Rob's truck. Someone mentioned that you can plumb the bell housing for air the same as a distributor to avoid this. I've even seen where people plumb the diffs and tc for air as well.

You can also just run the wheel bearings in gear oil along with the swivels by removing the little seals in the stub axles on Discos, and the outer hub seals if you have an earlier vehicle. I'm in the process of doing this to mine front and rear and will post a thread on it.

David
 

SeaRubi

Explorer
This takes care of the aux fans, but the mechanical fan is still going to spray water all over the engine. The only way around this is to replace it with an electric one as well, that is, unless you have a separate fan belt (non-serpentine), in which case you can just remove the fan belt. This is actually in the owner's manual on earlier Rovers along with putting a sheet of plastic over the grill and hood when wading.

excellent point. I had thought the switch for the 2 electric ones though was primarily prevent water damage to the fans? Maybe it's not an issue. I think the plastic trick would overheat a Disco in short order, especially if the crossing was at all very long. In the 'technique' files - overheating trucks after a crossing can be avoided by checking the radiator for an accumulation of debris. Also good to examine for punctures ... I've pulled some pretty neat sticks out of mine before :snorkel:

Otherwise, it all looks good. You could still get water into the tranny through the tc seal, especially if you stall, as happened to Rob's truck. Someone mentioned that you can plumb the bell housing for air the same as a distributor to avoid this. I've even seen where people plumb the diffs and tc for air as well.

I've read about this as well, over on Sam's board. I've been against pressurizing the transmission and diffs because my instincts tell me that the strain against the seals would outweigh the benefit of just running longer tubes and making sure they're free breathing. I suppose if I had repeat failures in a water logged climate I'd reconsider. The wet distributor nailed me almost every time, though. I kept the WD-40 down under the drivers seat.

You can also just run the wheel bearings in gear oil along with the swivels by removing the little seals in the stub axles on Discos, and the outer hub seals if you have an earlier vehicle. I'm in the process of doing this to mine front and rear and will post a thread on it.

David

cool beans - look forward to the post. I ran wet hubs front and rear on my ABS RRC after pulling the inner seals. While this is better for lubricating the wheel bearings, it in fact is a detriment to sealing the diff from water ingress. After I removed the inner seals, I didn't seal the axle flange well enough and kept getting water into the diffs all the time. The fronts leaked like a sieve, too, leaving embarrassing streaks of 90wt all over my NATO rims. I ended up using some kind of evil marine sealant on the front drive flanges to keep the water out and the oil in. I'm going to have to eventually drill and tap my swivels for drain plugs, as my '97 is not equipped to run wet.

On the rear axle, make sure you use new flange bolts. A tad longer bolt will help, too, if you're running HD shafts. Mine were forever backing off and going loose until I replaced them with new and longer ones.

cheers
-ike
 

David Harris

Expedition Leader
cool beans - look forward to the post. I ran wet hubs front and rear on my ABS RRC after pulling the inner seals. While this is better for lubricating the wheel bearings, it in fact is a detriment to sealing the diff from water ingress. After I removed the inner seals, I didn't seal the axle flange well enough and kept getting water into the diffs all the time. The fronts leaked like a sieve, too, leaving embarrassing streaks of 90wt all over my NATO rims. I ended up using some kind of evil marine sealant on the front drive flanges to keep the water out and the oil in. I'm going to have to eventually drill and tap my swivels for drain plugs, as my '97 is not equipped to run wet.

RTV on the axle flange instead of those factory paper gaskets, which are sorry in my opinion. (Paper to seal out water and mud?) I know what you mean about leaks out of the flanges, though. On the Discos with the two piece flange/axle set up, you'd need some RTV to seal the rubber cap on the hub as well. This setup pretty much requires the better RTC3511 seals you mentioned above to keep water and dirt out of there. Those seals date back to the days when Rovers ran with the wet wheel bearings from the factory.

I didn't know they went to no drain plugs on the 97's. My 1996 has them along with the chrome swivels. Are yours the black ones?
 

SeaRubi

Explorer
RTV on the axle flange instead of those factory paper gaskets, which are sorry in my opinion. (Paper to seal out water and mud?) I know what you mean about leaks out of the flanges, though. On the Discos with the two piece flange/axle set up, you'd need some RTV to seal the rubber cap on the hub as well. This setup pretty much requires the better RTC3511 seals you mentioned above to keep water and dirt out of there. Those seals date back to the days when Rovers ran with the wet wheel bearings from the factory.

I didn't know they went to no drain plugs on the 97's. My 1996 has them along with the chrome swivels. Are yours the black ones?

yep! I've got the fancy teflon coated swivels on mine. supposedly they do seal better and help to keep crud from building up on the surface of the swivel ball. I haven't pulled them yet to inspect, but I fear it's ugly. Even after the seal fails it still doesn't leak the grease, so no reason for a drain, right? nifty.

I pulled some redneck BS and cut new gaskets out of a beer six-pack's thin cardboard, thinking there might be a slight warp in the surface. After thinly coating both sides and torquing them down it held. I also feel more at ease when there's a little hidden shadetree fix holding my truck together.

Sometime next year I'll be moving back over to AEU2522 CV joints and the 110 hubs and longer spindles. Does anyone know if that same double lipped seal will work with the 110 "1 ton" hubs?
 

Paladin

Banned
Otherwise, it all looks good. You could still get water into the tranny through the tc seal, especially if you stall, as happened to Rob's truck.

FYI, the truck never stalled or stopped running.
 

David Harris

Expedition Leader
FYI, the truck never stalled or stopped running.

Yeah. Reading that, I should have said "stuck" instead, since that is probably a more likely circumstance unless your electrics get wet. And now that I think about it Rob did get stuck in the water for a time, not stalled. The main point is if you sit in deep water for a while, then you can apparently get water in through the torque converter seal.
 

Dave Legacy

Adventurer
I feel like it's pretty common knowledge these days that the snorkels are for dust, not water, on out petrol V8s. The Genuine LR RAI for the LR3 isn't even sealed as there's no need for it to be. I really don't think they're a bad idea if you frequent dusty trails like the ones we have in California.

Good thread, BTW.
 

DirkDefender

New member
Sounds to me like you've got a pretty good handle on the problem. Just the fact that you know where all the breathers are and the potential problems on your model puts you far ahead. As you note, the ECU is a definite weak point, and I've seen folks relocate it to get it up higher and (hopefully) drier. Definitely stick with 90wt in the swivels.

But, as noted, the best answer is that gasoline engine Rovers aren't meant to swim. Unless someone's life depends on it (and maybe especially if someone's life depends on it) respect the factory wading depth limits and bring a long strap to pull out the guys who don't.
 

David Harris

Expedition Leader
But, as noted, the best answer is that gasoline engine Rovers aren't meant to swim.

I wouldn't go that far. Over in the UK in challenge events people mostly run the V8's and prep them for deep water. These things are running submerged for relatively long periods without problems. They run air to the dizzy, tranny, etc., relocate the ECU and do fine. I do understand what I am assuming is your main point though, that the diesels are the real wading motors, and will keep going through just about any conditions, at least the mechanically governed ones. That's why LR spec'd these in most of the Camel Trophy vehicles, though not all. In the early Camels, the first year or so of RR's were running V8's, not diesels, and seemed to do fine as well.
 

Paladin

Banned
I feel like it's pretty common knowledge these days that the snorkels are for dust, not water, on out petrol V8s.

Why do you say that?

What, particularly, is the difference between the gas and diesel as it pertains to snorkel use in deep water in your mind?

Both engines can suffer catastrophic damage should the snorkel system fail and allow water into the intake. In fact, I should say, I suspect diesels are more at risk due to their much higher compression ratio. I have personally only ever seen a case of a bent rod once, and it was on a diesel. I've seen a lot of stalled out gassers.

The electrical connectors on a D2 are quite waterproof.
 

SeaRubi

Explorer
But, as noted, the best answer is that gasoline engine Rovers aren't meant to swim. Unless someone's life depends on it (and maybe especially if someone's life depends on it) respect the factory wading depth limits and bring a long strap to pull out the guys who don't.


agreed! but it is a lot of fun. :elkgrin:

I've also seen a D1 that relocated their ECU to the ceiling, waterproofed the harness and ran it up the B pillar. It wasn't pretty but it was funtional. I'm not ready to go to those lengths myself as i want the inside to stay relatively nice.

I feel like it's pretty common knowledge these days that the snorkels are for dust, not water, on out petrol V8s. The Genuine LR RAI for the LR3 isn't even sealed as there's no need for it to be. I really don't think they're a bad idea if you frequent dusty trails like the ones we have in California.

Good thread, BTW.

I'm sold on the functionality for sure, assuming there's a precleaner involved. I just hate the look. I used to shake my air filter out in the mornings on some trips to dusty places and am always shocked at how much dirt has collected onto it. that's got to be hell on the rings bearings.

There's no argument as to the older diesels being a better choice for deep water environments. No ignition to get wet, no electronics sensors to malfunction, etc. Just solid, reliable diesel power. Mmmm diesel. It's probably not going to ever happen on my truck, however.

cheers
-ike
 

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