What are the limitations of a really large expedition vehicle?

[jk6661]

I'm new to overlanding, so bear with me if this is a newbie question. What are the real-world limitations of a vehicle like a large Unicat? For example, Unicat currently has a second-hand model with a lifting roof that's 29 ft long (without the included ATV/small car carrier on the back), 8 ft. wide, and 13 ft. high, GVWR 44,000 Ibs., 3 axles. (Only half a million Euros! ) Obviously you wouldn't be tackling Jeep trails in it, but other than that, how limited would you be in the places you could go outside North America? Would you have to park it outside of small and medium-sized towns and drive in with your ATV? I guess what I'm asking is, how big is too big for reasonably practical, extended overland travel in places like Asia and Africa, assuming your vehicle budget isn't a factor?

 

[Christian P.]

I just posted these pictures on Instagram from a recent trip to the DRC (Democratic Republic of Congo) in Africa...that may help you...

Before (when we crossed with the LandCruiser)




And a couple days later...

 

[jk6661]

Well, that's a bummer.

 

[PhulesAU]

Parking??

 

[S2DM]

My rig is 23’ and still does the majority of the challenging trails in Baja, most no problem and some with a little extra work, and moves around most cities pretty easily. My personal opinion is every foot beyond 23’ you start to lose maneuverability. That said, you gain creature comforts as well.

It’s important to remember that as much as any opinionated, haven’t done it myself but am an expert nonetheless type on this forum will tell you there are perfect vehicles and definitives when it comes to too big or too small, there just aren’t. You have to figure out (with plenty of opinions here) what feels comfortable and capable to you and that’s a real gamut from person to person.

Another way to phrase it is, I’d like to accomplish X, what’s the biggest rig that will do it without too much effort. For me, that number is 23’. My rig is infinitely more comfortable (IMO) than a sportsmobile, sprinter or 4wc type rig (the next size down) and it ticks my ‘that’s the perfect amount of comfort’ button. Others think it’s obscene and still others yet feel like it’s basically a spartan tent and want a full class A with private commode etc. Capability wise, my rig also does what I like to do in it, gets me to most remote beaches and has enough capacity to stay for weeks. I could get there easier in a Tacoma 4wc rig, but wouldn’t have enough room for water and surfboards. I’d also be a fool to tackle the rubicon in mine, and for someone else, that’s a requirement.

In short, go see a bunch, try to come up with a realistic list of what features are must haves, and what situations are ‘must be able to navigate through easily’.

For my own Grain of salt opinion, as much as people think they will, you rarely see Earthroamer type vehicles down in Baja and Central America. You do see some Europeans coming through in Unicat style offerings a touch smaller than the one you described.

 

[BlueCruiser88]

The rig is neat and all but I think one must consider them impacts such a heavy vehicle has on the environment. Some rigs are simply too large and literally teraform the trails and roads as they meander through them. Tread lightly will be impossible after a rain with that much weight displacing mud etc... I try to pay closer attention to the people who overland for a living, and most always wind up shedding as much weight as possible and living on the actual land instead of lugging around a mobile command center. I say if it can’t fit in a shipping container, it’s probbaly too big for practical uses. But then again I am poor and am stuck with a Tacoma, so perhaps I’m just thinking small because I have no other choice.

 

[tanuki.himself]

from a non-US towns perspective look at what the locals used for deliveries and public transport as a guide to manoeuvrability - the older the town the more constricted it is likely to be. Same logic with local roads - in places with many small villages and centuries of settlement and farming public rights of way are likely to be twistier and follow the topology of the land based on old footpath and cart tracks

In Europe my experience is that few vehicles that go into towns have twin rear axles, and move to being articulated with short cab/tractor units before they get that big. I drove a 39' A class single rear axle through many towns and cites in north america on their main roads with no issues, but i never tried to park and i would not attempt many European places with anything that big.

 

[Britboaters]

I retired almost 5 years ago, WOW how time flies, and bought a Ram 2500 diesel and 34 foot 5th wheeler. We travelled out west a few times, enjoying the "luxury" the space gave us. But I started to get tired with the size of the rig, and stressed.
We went to Africa on a 4 week self drive safari - wife and I, a GPS and a Ford Ranger with an Alucab roof top camper from Avis. We spent 4 nights in the camper, at camp sites, then 1 or 2 nights in nice lodges, in Namibia and Botswana. We had a fantastic time and really enjoyed the camper. The only stress was being woken up at night by roaring lions !!
So we sold the 5th wheeler when we got home, and started looking for something for North American travel.
We spent about 6 months looking at different options for a new camper, Sprinter, Lance, Four Wheel camper, etc. Overland Expo is a great place to get inspiration and ideas from others !
We came down to 2 "must have" items - a bed my wife could walk around to make (bad back), and a bathroom with a door. We also wanted to be self sufficient for a few days, etc. Our budget didn't allow us to just go out and buy something.
So after a few sketches we figured that a 14 foot long box would meet our objectives. We wanted 4WD so started looking for a truck.
We bought a GMC Topkick C4500 with a GVWR of 17,000. The cab is about 9 feet long, so total length 25 feet, plus a motorcycle on the back. The box is 8 feet wide, and the truck till be about 12 feet tall when done.
The point of the story is how we got to decide what size truck we wanted, and how that was based on our experiences. As others have said it's all about compromise. We maybe could have gone with a Four Wheel Camper, but that didn't meet our (wife's) criteria. We're still in the building phase. We're still pretty close to our original budget, for cost, but way over on time !!
Good luck on your "journey".
Bob
https://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/gmc-topkick-4x4-expedition-camper-build.183972/

 

[Mundo4x4Casa]

Good topic with excellent posts. In addition to what David13 has so eloquently pointed out is how far out in Terra Incognita are you willing or able to get. For folks who have never been a hard core 4WD-er, I don't even recommend 4WD on an "Expedition type traveling vehicle". You don't have the chops to make those decisions about clearance (trees, rocks, pitch, approach angle, break over angle, departure angle), traction (lowering tire pressure on sand, and I don't mean a few pounds, but really playing with the pressure to give you the most floatation), how far your rig can lean over without rolling, and viability of the most noxious of road surfaces... and how to get back to Terra Firma. So don't even go there. One of my former rigs:

Many on this forum do have those qualifications borne of experience and are not only looking for the Expedition Look but a practical rig; just big enough, not too heavy, wide, or tall that well fits their now focused needs and doesn't break the bank. I'm reminded of a young couple who dropped out, sold everything, and spent a lot of money getting their truck camper organized for an open ended trans America tour. A year or two in they were caught in a roadway collapse in Sud Amerika with one side of the truck in the ditch leaning precariously. They had a 16.5 Warn winch and heavy bumper on the front but had never used it, so they bid a passing 2 ton truck strap them out. It was probably the prudent thing to do. If you are an off-road type with considerable experience in extraction and recovery and have all the tools to make that work, then getting to the most remote, least populated destination can be a satisfying experience.
Jeanie and I, both in our 70's still go looking for an off the beaten path traction adventure, pushing the edge of what is possible ( and sniffing the ozone) in our well prepared truck camper and we've been some amazing places in the light weight self contained box.

Maybe you think this is all about me, but it isn't. It's about knowing what you want, and given your abilities and experience, knowing how to get it.
jefe

 

[tanuki.himself]

It's about knowing what you want, and given your abilities and experience, knowing how to get it

or turn that logic around - work out what you want to be capable of and then go out there and learn. I knew i would be spending winters in the canadian mountains, so I went out and did a course on a skidpan (and made the wife do it as well) to learn how to drive on slippery surfaces. And then when we got there, I went out and practised - just around a car park to start with, baby steps, but learned safely and methodically. Never done much 4 wheel off roading, so took the Suzuki on some of the dirt tracks in Baja - never too far from civilisation, but challenging enough to learn both vehicle and techniques. When I go to Southern Africa I'll take my vehicle and do a course in sand driving and using recovery boards, winch, jacks, whatever I decide to carry with me I will make sure I know how to use. And ask on forums like this - chances are there is someone near where you are going who can show you how for the price of a few beers and a lunchtime cookout

 

[Mundo4x4Casa]

Tanuki,
You are correct for your situation. The best way to gain experience is to jump right in; deal with the consequences of your own mistakes or misjudgements; and make adjustments to your plan. Someone else's experience rarely sticks. Take the time we were trying to get to Monache Meadows in the southern Sierra Nevada. We were about 2 weeks too early in the season. About 50 years ago, we followed the jeep trail in our 1966 Toyota FJ-40 and entered a marshy, but quickly drying out area about 500 feet across. After a very few feet in low range/hubs on we spun to the frame. No chance of moving fore or aft under power. Momentum would have netted you nothing in this goo. Remember, we're still on the official trail and could not think of driving on the pristine meadowland.

What to do? No trees close by. No large rocks or other vehicles to winch on with our factory Toyota power take off winch. This is called in 4WD circles; the "DEADMAN" technique. I did have a shovel and slogged through the mud pulling the 125 foot winch cable out all the way to the last few wraps on the drum, went back to retrieve the spare tire and tire iron and slogged back to dig a hole slightly larger than the shape of the spare tire down about 3.5 feet. With the X-tire iron under the center of the spare; the hook wrapped around the tire iron under pressure through the center hole I lowered the tire to the bottom and buried the whole thing. Then we winched our way to the spare tire. Dig up the spare; roll it out another 100 feet; dig another hole; hook up the winch cable; bury the spare. Was that the end of it? No. The scenario was repeated several more times, 100 feet at a time. When you are 22 years old, labor intensive means nothing, but I did learn a valuable, hands on lesson that would be repeated many more times over the years, and made me very wary of bottomless mud.
jefe

 

[Sitec]

My view is that it's all dependant on your budget, where you plan/want to go in your vehicle, and in how much comfort you want to do it in... We've done the 'rough camping' with swags, we've done the 'semi comfortable' with roof top tents and a mattress in a forward control Land Rover, which meant we could get pretty well anywhere we wanted (beaches, tracks etc)... We're now over that (age has something to do with that) and now we want more comfort...
From previous experience with trucks off road (carrying passengers in tour trucks in Africa), I know that I can get a 24' long 12 tonne 4x4 truck into most places I want to see. Granted I don't plan to cross bridges like the one earlier in this thread, but I do hope to get back to Africa in the not too distant future, and we plan to do most of Australia in the near future. We have sold the Land Rover and bought a Mercedes truck. I have found and bought a body that I plan to modify to permanently fit to the truck. I plan to drive it across the Simpson Dessert, through the center of the Flinders Ranges etc, all places that are interesting in a 4x4, but also doable in a 4x4 truck.... Attached is a pic (not mine, but a very similar truck) of a 4x2 12 tonner doing things it probably shouldn't.. It's still trucking around Africa though... Meet Aminah!!

 

[grizzlyj]

Hi
Having had some experience in smaller 4x4's, then lucky enough to live in a Unimog camper for a few years I decided when our family grew to three and a dog we would have an all wheel drive camper big enough to have three permanent beds. We'll go where ever we'll fit

 

[Herbie]

My biggest fear of really big vehicles is "What happens when you need to get pulled out?"

Unless there's a bulldozer handy, there's an upper limit on "recovery" operations that can be mounted on a larger vehicle in some conditions.

 

[Grenadiers]

After having two big RV diesel pushers, and a truck camper on the bed of a 2001 Ford F350 Powerstroke, we 'settled' on our Saurer 6dm RV conversion. 29,000 pounds give or take, 12' tall and 28 feet long. In Baja last January, we 'saved' 4000 dollars (spent 2000) doing beach camping versus 6000 dollars the year before in our RV at RV parks (in the mainland) and toll roads; each trip was a month long. On the beaches, I'd park in a safe place and check out the softness of the sand before venturing out, worked. We don't have a winch, even though some units do come with them. It's all set up for one, so, if I get lucky I might find one in Germany or Switzerland. You have to be very aware of your tip over point with one of these big rigs. I have 20 years experience rock crawling in various Jeeps I've built, so that awareness is bred in~! We went to Baja without toys, and you do need them. Since then, we bought a folding Porte-Boat with an electric trolling motor, and two electric bikes. Towing a vehicle is not practical and in the small towns and villages in Mexico, you don't really need them. This fall we're heading to the Yucatan and feel we're quite ready this time! PS, we went to Aqua Verde Baja in the Saurer, and that has a two track mountain switch-back as part of the trip. Scared both of us, but we made it, that part of the trip back was cut from 4 hours to 2 hours, going uphill is preferable! Having a self-contained overland big 4x4 is quite the experience. The locals were all excited to see it, taking pictures and all. The young guns manning the military checkpoints had to look inside, but wasn't a concern.