What do I do?

[ericvs]

After much deliberation and time spent at two different shops, it has been determined that three of my piston rings have gone bad. My mechanic (Dynomite Diesel) said it is very unusual for an engine with so few miles (like this one) to have this issue, but there you have it.

His quote for a re-build on a duramax runs about the same or more than a new engine, which can be had on the 'cheap' now ($7800 or so + install). The shop rates out here are pretty pricey though. Going to, say, Idaho, I could probably find lower shop rates, but more hassle. New engine would get upgraded injectors for more HP and ft/lbs however, so that is cool, but I am putting an LB7 back into a rusty rig.

Other things, truck is from east coast, but now living in Seattle:
The wheel bearings in the front both need replacing
Steering components will need to be replaced
Complete brake job required and I would need to get a new parking
brake as the old rusted off off some time ago, haha.
The frame itself is good from a rust standpoint, but the cab is basically rotting from the inside out. He peeked up inside one of the rust holes on the outside of the cab with a mirror and was surprised. They are not used to dealing with rust out here though, so it is probably on par with what we salt belters would expect.

Total cost if I wanted to fix this truck would be about $12000+/-, which seems a bit much to put into a rusty body truck.
I, for whatever reason, don't really want a new, off the lot truck. I like the used trucks (can't explain why, just how I feel). That being said, they aren't offering 0%, but have 1.9% on new trucks currently and it has a full warranty. I don't really know anyone out here to get hooked up with, so I would only be armed with my weak *** negotiation skillzz, which would probably end up burning me. Also, if I buy new, I can just trade the old truck in and be done with it.

I would like a 2007 LBZ, but reasonable 07s are around 30K+. Financing for around 2.5% would be about what I could get. Seems like too much, but looking around the country that is what they are going for. Even in the rust belt they are not much less. No salt out here, so I won't be dealing with rust issues, just potential lemon issues or dealing with someone elses problems. I can buy an aftermarket warranty on a truck with under 80K miles for around $3000 and it covers everything. There still could be potential issues though.

I have a friend with a 2007 Ford 6.0L for $28000 give or take with just over 80000 miles on it, it has a full (aftermarket) warranty, which would fix the issues with the 6.0L, but then I would have a 6.0L ford (shudder)

What I really wanted was for my truck to last forever and be set. haha.

What would you do?
Thanks for reading and your insight.

 

[mtnbike28]

My .02 cents are not worth 2 cents, but now that you are out of the rust belt and the truck is not some super cool/rare beast. I think you should move on. I agree, a used truck with a higher % might be equal to a new truck with lower %. A new engine will out last everything on your current truck. Move on....

 

[zoomad75]

The problems you have really are going to out-weigh what the truck is truly worth in the long run. If the truck body wasn't swiss cheese I'd go the other way and fix it because a newer truck is still going to cost more. Those front bearings are 400-500 bucks a side for GM units and aftermarket units aren't much cheaper. I'll lend a little insight on a remanufactured engine. What ever you do DON'T get a Duramax from Jasper. We put one in our C4500 rollback wrecker (04) at work only because GM was out of stock when ours failed. At the time we were an installer for Jasper and our sales rep assured us we were getting a part just as good as GM/Isuzu put together. Since it was our only wrecker at the time, we needed it on the road ASAP so we spent 8g's on a Jasper long block assembly. We were told we would have a 3yr/100k mile warranty too, just like what we would have got from GM. A little over a year later and 33,000 miles it developed a wicked rattle in the valve train. I made the call to get the ball rolling to cover us under warranty and the first problem was that we were told it only had a 1yr warranty. Hmmm, Not what our rep said but I'll get back to that. My tech dug into the problem and found that valvetrain was severely out of adjustment. Mind you we were told it was ready to go, fully dialed in and no valvetrain adjustment needed. Duramax's don't require periodic valve lash adjustments anyway but this was so far out the rockers were beating the hell out of the bridges and valve stems. In other words the heads were junk at 33k. Even with an OCD maintenance routine every 3,000 miles. Call out to the rep who went back on his word about the warranty but would "see what he could do". Days elapse. Finally get a call back and after reaming the guy out and letting my owner have a crack at him too, he coughed up a phone number to the VP in charge of warranty. That guy went rounds with me too. He wouldn't believe the photos I sent. All they ended up doing for us was send us another pair of heads and we got to cover our own labor. The VP personally guaranteed he would walk the heads through the process and inspect them himself. So we checked them out before installing them. Yep he must of watched them, they were just as bad if not worse. Over half of the valve stems on each head never got the tips machined and showed heavy signs of wear. Rockers, bridges and rocker shafts showed heavy signs of wear also. I called and griped again and he sent another set after I sent photos of the garbage he supposedly inspected himself. Next set was better, but still had similar problems just not as much. We ended up mixing and matching the best set of everything and putting them on the heads that did have the valve stems at least all machined.

Whatever you do, don't get a Jasper if you choose to get a reman engine. But considering the shape of your truck I'm not sure I'd waste the money.

 

[chilliwak]

Cut your losses and move on. Rust is a cancer that you will never get over. Sell your truck for what its worth, or even better, trade it to some dumb used car salesman on a new/used vehicle.... Hope this helps, and I am sorry to hear about your bad luck. Cheers, Chilli.:ylsmoke:

 

[dddonkey]

I agree with the above remark, cut your losses. I know when my LB7 melted a piston from a stuck injector a "new" rebuilt engine from Tony Burkhart was $5500 and to rebuild my was 3K at the time. There price is way too high in opinion even with upgraded injectors. If you like used find an '04.5 LLY and start from there of even and '06.5 LBZ from the west coast, but that is my .02, good luck.

 

[Larry]

If I've said it once, I said it 100 times here. DIESELS are not worth owning unless you are towing 80% of GVWR 80% of the time or you just “need” a diesel to be one of the cool kids on the block. The only exception is a pre-emissions 5.9L Cummins (2006 or older), as those are the most solid of the 3 light truck diesels although they are not with out pricy maintenance either.

I work in the truck manufacturing industry and handle major national fleet account customers for all things after sales support for my company. Without naming names, my main customer is the second largest fleet in the US where you see several of their trucks every day. Chances are they bring goodies to your house at least once or twice a week. The trucks are brown in color. Yeah, those. Over the past 8 years they have been replacing their older diesel fleet with new gasoline chassis because the gasoline chassis inception cost is less, engine longevity is up, maintenance is down and durability is up. It is hard to say the same for diesels where inception costs are ridiculous, fuel economy is down and durability is way down with maintenance has sky rocketed. In the past 8 years alone they have introduced over 16,000 new delivery vehicles that start and stop 100+ times a day like a swiss watch and rack up 40,000 to 80,000 miles a year depending on the route. It is nothing for them to get 250,000 to 300,000+ trouble free miles out of a GM 4.8L or 6.0L engine in these trucks meanwhile the few diesel trucks they purchases from us in the same time frame (Navistar 6.0L and 6.4L and a few 6.6L Duramax's) barely make it to 80,000 miles before major i$$uses pop up and the majority of the diesel engines don't even make it to 200,000 before needing replaced while costing $12,000+ to replace. Even if a gas engine craps out it is a fraction of the cost to repair (around $4,000 to $4,500 for a new gas engine..not a reman but new) vs. a diesel and these days the difference between fuel economy and overall ownership costs still favor gasoline as the powertrain of choice.

Like I say, unless you are towing a huge 5th wheel trailer all over the country, hotshotter moving cars from auction to dealer, or whatever I doubt a Dirtymax is really needed. Go get yourself a GM HD truck with a 6.0L or 8.1L gas engine or a Ram HD with a 5.7L Hemi and just keep a credit card on the dash for quicker fill-ups but in the long run you will still be money a head. These days diesel trucks are not worth owning. Maybe a leased new diesel truck where one turns it back in before the warranty expires would be the next option if you must own a diesel. Modern diesel pickups are like German luxury cars.....lease them, flog them and give them back before they start cost you out the ying yang to maintain them. Being your truck is a rust belt truck makes the decision even easier.

 

[redthies]

Larry's summation is a perfect intro for my post... Sell the GM for parts, and buy an '05-'06 Dodge Cummins for around $16,000.

 

[thedjjack]

I would find an old Pre-1996 Ford F350 rust free crew cab solid axle (king pin dana 60 would be nice) and do 12V mechanical pump swap...

for under $20,000 you could have a better truck then any money would buy...

 

[bob91yj]

Nine years at a GMC dealership, one of the best Dmax techs on the west coast so I see plenty of trucks, never seen one lose piston rings. I'd get a second opinion on the engine if you decide to keep the truck. Having said that, there are way too many clean used trucks out there to dump a bunch of money into a truck with rust issues.

 

[ericvs]

Awesome. Thanks for all the responses.
To answer some posts:

I think I have realized it is time to move on

I would move on if I were you. However, if I could afford a new truck I would be driving one lol. Even if you put a ton of money into your truck its still an old truck. Get the better interest rates, a new vehicle warranty, and a substantial amount of relief from knowing you are the only one who touched your truck.

If you like used find an '04.5 LLY and start from there of even and '06.5 LBZ from the west coast, but that is my .02, good luck.

Most of the 06.5 to 07 duramaxes I can find (around here) are around 30k. Seems like a lot for a 5 - 6 year old truck. One of my co-workers has an LLY with the overheating issue. Can't pull the trailer up their driveway without a stop in the middle. On occasion, when I do tow, I don't want to have to deal with something like this.

Whatever you do, don't get a Jasper if you choose to get a reman engine. But considering the shape of your truck I'm not sure I'd waste the money.

Noted. Too bad you had to go through that. This replacement would be a GM one and not a Jasper. Thanks for the heads up though.

... or you just “need” a diesel to be one of the cool kids on the block. The only exception is a pre-emissions 5.9L Cummins (2006 or older)

Yea, I originally bought the truck off a friend for a screaming deal, couldn't pass it up. Didn't 'need' a diesel, but needed a new vehicle and it was like a match made in heaven, haha. I was just planning on running it for a long time, but now that plan had been shelved. I am more interested in the diesel part of the equation rather than the 3/4ton+ part. After owning a diesel for this long, I don't know if I can go back. I would really like a 1/2ton with a diesel in it. Can't get that here. What are your thoughts on the LBZ dirtymax (06.5-07?). I believe that engine is also pre-emissions?
I do occasionally tow, but it is not 80% GVWR 80% of the time.

Being your truck is a rust belt truck makes the decision even easier.

Agreed!

I would like to get a diesel (if possible). not for towing, but more for the fuel type. Maybe that is dumb, but I think I am addicted... Probably the smell.

Would you spend 30k on a 5 year old used truck?
Used truck with a nice aftermarket warranty v. a new truck (with all the emissions stuff) but a nice factory warranty?

 

[zoomad75]

I run a service department at a little Chevy dealer here in Colorado. Here's my take on the thoughts you have on the LLY or LBZ dirtymax engines. Both have power to spare. Injectors aren't an issue like the LB7's as they moved locations and redesigned them. So yeah, they run. However, they aren't bulletproof (not many engines are). Overheating has happened. We've done head gaskets on them. Root cause in a some of them was driver induced. Lack of maintenance, loss of coolant and keep towing, head bolts stretch and it starts pumping compression from the cylinders into the cooling system. Once that happens the pressure cap can't hold it all back so it barfs all the coolant out through the overflow bottle. Most were high mileage outside of warranty. Add a tuner to jack the boost up and you'll see the limits of the stock head bolts.

Buying a used diesel of any brand is a crapshoot in my opinion. Keep this in mind, diesel trucks are built to work. Add to that are the power hungry that even the great stock power out of these trucks isn't enough so they add the tuner's and other mods to ramp power up even more. They get flogged like rented mules. Then when they start having problems they yank the mods off and trade them off to some unsuspecting dealer or used lot before they really blow up. We've taken in a couple of these in on trade and I feel like beating the snot out of our sales manager when he doesn't let me or my techs at least look them over for signs of abuse. Which brings the next issue in line is buying an extended warranty when you buy a used diesel. Be very careful and read ALL the fine print. Extended warranties are very one sided to the warranty company. Slick sales literature says things like "bumper to bumper" or full engine coverage. Problem is the fine print proves the list of what's covered and it's not a full bumper to bumper warranty. Or the engine portion covers internally lubricated parts only, meaning the turbo or injection pump isn't covered since they aren't internally lubricated in the engine. They are external parts and therefor aren't covered. Extended warranties are expensive and the companies will do what they can to save money and not spend it. I've called on repairs that by all details of the policy it's covered, but the company shoots it down on a technicality or it's just not on their list of covered items. At that point my customer is pissed and wants to yell at somebody, so I give them the number to call that I did. Buyer beware for sure.

As far as the new trucks with all the emissions garbage on them, I'm not sold on them. Sure the new Dmax is putting out silly hp/tq numbers stock, but with all the emissions crap they can't even come close to the same fuel economy the older pre-emissions engines did. The killer to fuel economy is the Diesel particulate filter. To make it work, one must crank up heat to basically cook the soot out of the exhaust. So they inject fuel right into the exhaust downstream from the turbo into the catalytic convertor. That raw fuel lights the cat off to 1400+ degrees and that heat going right into the DPF burns the soot out of it. So in order to clean up the exhaust we get to inject fuel right into it, in doing so reduces fuel economy as some of the fuel load on board just gets dumped never to be even run through the engine. Thank the Federal Gov't for the requirement. Yes there are ways to delete the crap, but if you do during the factory warranty period you run the risk of voiding the warranty on the engine which was a primary reason for buying a new one in the first place. GM makes us pull calibration files before any major component repair (engine, trans and axles) to make sure they have not been altered. They aren't screwing around anymore and have a very clear stance on the matter.

Larry's got it right, if you don't need one to use for it's designed intent don't. I'd look for a 03-04 2500hd running a 8.1L big block if you just have to have that kind of power. No it won't get the same fuel economy as the diesels, but cost of ownership is going to be half and gets better the higher diesel fuel goes. Only problem there is 8.1L trucks are a rare beast.

 

[DoMiNiC1]

I wanted to be a cool kid, bought a 2002 dirtymax with 75k on it for 17k (fleet owned), also bought an after market warranty. In one year I have racked up 10k in repairs, and shelled out about 300 bucks out of pocket. So far I have replaced both wheel barrings, steering intermediate shaft, hydro boot, idler arm, pitment arm, injectors, water pump... the list goes on. I have had all this covered by warranty, they have not once sent an inspector even with a 4500 bill. They have been awesome! If you can find a nice diesel with less then 100k get this warranty. I have mine for three years, at this rate I will have a new truck by the end. lol

http://www.autolifewarranty.com/files/Placemat_TSP.pdf

 

[DoMiNiC1]

updates?

 

[goodtimes]

Too bad all the gasser trucks are built and marketed to people who never leave the pavement.

Couple a robust chassis with a modern gas engine & you'd have a decent truck. I don't need my truck to ride like a caddy or handle like a corvette - I need it to stand up to rough terrain with a heavy load (1500 pounds in the bed) while pulling a fairly light trailer (2000 pounds) and getting 15mpg. My 13 year old Dodge can do it - certainly a modern gas engine (which boasts better HP, TQ, & fuel economy numbers), can do it - just build the rest of the truck to do it too.

Or doesn't that fit into the "value engineers" equation?

 

[Larry]

Too bad all the gasser trucks are built and marketed to people who never leave the pavement.

Couple a robust chassis with a modern gas engine & you'd have a decent truck. I don't need my truck to ride like a caddy or handle like a corvette - I need it to stand up to rough terrain with a heavy load (1500 pounds in the bed) while pulling a fairly light trailer (2000 pounds) and getting 15mpg. My 13 year old Dodge can do it - certainly a modern gas engine (which boasts better HP, TQ, & fuel economy numbers), can do it - just build the rest of the truck to do it too.

Or doesn't that fit into the "value engineers" equation?

I dunno, seems to me the Ram Brand is doing a fine job of marketing the GAS powered Power Wagon as well as the Ferd folks do with the GAS powered Raptor for the sole purpose of leaving the pavement. I see no difference in chassis durability between gas vs. diesel chassis with the big 3 pickups. Not sure where you are coming from on this one sir. The people that think they need a diesel either really “WANT” a diesel or have not pulled out a calculator to see diesels are not the best bang for the buck in the long run.