What size winch?

[I Leak Oil]

I'd love the flexibility (and free cash!) to be able to have a rear winch as well as the one on the front. My own personal experience is that when stuck I either:

A) Didn't make it far enough so a simple strap from behind is usually enough to reverse out of it.
or
B) I've made it far enough that getting pulled forward, winch or, preferably, a strap, makes far more sense.

I can't remember the last time I had to be winched out in reverse.
Jason T.

 

[DEEZLPWR]

winch

I would suggest a warn 16.5

I have a 2001 ex cab long bed 4x4 cummins that weighs stock 8800lbs. With after market tires, gear winch etc i will be well over 9500lbs EASY.

I have a snatch block as well. I figure if i get stuck even half way on the tire that right there increases my pulling load to somewhere in the ballpark of 12-13000lb + you need a big winch. i would rather overbuild and not worry bout burning out a smaller winch over the course of time and stick the biggest i can on the front. just my $.02


and if you need a winch in the rear, mount one to the frame under the bed. stick another 16.5 there as well cant go wrong and it will balance itself out.

 

[spencyg]

My rig is around 8000 Lbs wet, unloaded. I chose an 8000lb winch for the front and an 8000lb winch for the rear. Boomer isn't a muddin' vehicle, and chances are any "stuck" situations are going to be just lightly stuck. Momentum with a vehicle this large is just going to break stuff, and if I get stuck, it is going to be right as things get dicey. I'm also not going to be traversing 5' deep waterholes or climbing rock faces. For the purposes of an overlanding vehicle that sees 99.5% paved and maintained dirt I'm still way overboard even having winches. I can double up the line for 16000# of pulling if necessary, otherwise I think 8000lbs will be more than enough to get the job done. Remember, having 16000lbs pulling on your frame means you need some serious mountings and even then the possibility of doing damage to your frame if pulling off-center is much higher (just ask Doug Hackney).

Spence

 

[DEEZLPWR]

oh yeah i will be using 1/4" 2x4 stock for the mount frame, which will be welded to the frame upwards of about 10 inches into the frame itself. plus i have 2 plates of 5/16" for the winch plates, gusseting etc so it will be able to handle the loads. Of course i will try to make it as straight of a pull as i can

 

[Outback]

I suggest you double your fully loaded weight and get a WARN winch. So if your rig weighs in at 8,000 lbs a 16,000 lbs winch would handle just about any typical stuck siyuation. When mud is involved then you will be very happy you had a 16K rated winch. When I took my winch to have it inspected because the yahoos at the chevy dealership wired it up wrong. I was privy to see all of the winches that they rebuild. There is a HUGE diffrence in quality compared to Ramsey, Mile Marker ect ect. This is on the standard planetary gear winches. WARN has much stronger components. For a worm gear winch then a Ramsey is called for. But for your standard winch go WARN.

 

[dzzz]

I have a front-mounted winch. 80%+ the time I have needed rear recovery. I'm glad I'm not the only one bringing this up.

People who winch the most are "winching for fun". Trying to get through a tough trail and keep up with their friends. The small 4wds on a day run are front heavy, especially when everyone gets out to unstick the vehicle. These guys know the advantages of different types of synthetic line. They have getting stuck stories. They write books on winching.

As trucks get bigger, the weight becomes rear oriented and controlling the back becomes more important. The driver on average is older and does not find it so cool to get stuck anymore. They (we) should probably consider the back a better place.

Another though on where the winch should be is to look at weight distribution. A steel bumper and a big winch on the front shift significant weight forward on a pickup sized vehicle. Compare this setup to a aluminum bumper on the front and a rear winch. Forward weight can be good for traction if this configuration maintains good overall balance. Rear placement is more nuetral. Hopefully the design already includes the heaviest items low and in front of the rear axle.

To do it right we should probably weigh our vehicle axles wet without bumpers or winch. Then decide on bumper weight and winch placement.

I like rear winch for pulling other people out. First try with the tow straps then the winch if necessary.

 

[charlieaarons]

As an old f*rt with a big heavy rear biased truck, I too installed a 15K hydraulic Superwinch in the rear for my 1st winch. Then, my 2nd is a 20K DP, hydraulic of course. Sometimes retreat is the better part of valor. I used to enjoy getting stuck more in my 4000 lb BJ40.
Speaking of mounting: I think DEEZLPWR's 1/4" & 5/16" mounting is a bit light. I'd go up at least to 3/8", if it's over a 9000 lb winch. My front winch is mounted on 16mm plates (5/8").

Charlie

 

[michaelgroves]

I'm with Metcalf. You get diminishing returns from bigger and bigger winches. They get harder to handle, and are more likely to break things. Most importantly, even with an 8000lb winch, finding a suitable anchor can be a problem. At 16000 or 20000lbs, you can't just loop it around a little tree and hope.

Also, if you get a "big" truck stuck, it's less likely to be a quick job to unstick it. Some intelligent rigging with a few snatch blocks will take a few minutes, and the line pull will be slower, but so what?

I'm all in favour of a smaller winch, preferably hydraulic, and carry lots of rigging.

 

[dzzz]

I expect an 8000 lb hydraulic winch pulls a lot more than a 8000 lb WARN or other 12v winch.
I have no evidence to support my claim. Just that when numbers get important in marketing the numbers are inflated. How are these number defined? A "16000 pound winch" is a huge amount of force. I would define a 16000 pound winch as one that is capable of dead lifting 16K pounds at the outer drum and no mechanical advantage.
Does it say "up to 16000 lbs in the fine print"?. Maybe it's like DSL.

 

[Outback]

Line speed should not even be considered unless your in some type of competition off road race. Other than that line speed means squat to me. I have my winch mounted up front for two reasons. First I have to get to my sites. Thats not an option. I use the the best vehicle suited for the job. Snow = Snowcat ect ect. 99% of the time its a diesel 4x4 truck. I am also always accompanied by another truck with a winch. In my last winching we used his 12,000 lbs rated WARN winch to pull me up a muddy hill with a small backhoe trailer attached but unloaded. We had to stop the winch several times since she was getting hot. I then hooked up my 16.5 Warn and never even came close to getting her hot for the rest of the pull which was longer than the three times he winched me. This did invlove moving the winch vehicle then ancor vehicle several times. The weight diffrence is not even noticed. Yes they installed some 1/4" steel Buckshot bumper and it performed well but not my first choice in bumpers.

 

[michaelgroves]

I expect an 8000 lb hydraulic winch pulls a lot more than a 8000 lb WARN or other 12v winch.
I have no evidence to support my claim. Just that when numbers get important in marketing the numbers are inflated. How are these number defined? A "16000 pound winch" is a huge amount of force. I would define a 16000 pound winch as one that is capable of dead lifting 16K pounds at the outer drum and no mechanical advantage.
Does it say "up to 16000 lbs in the fine print"?. Maybe it's like DSL.

I think most of the electric winch manufacturers quote the nominal lifting (dead pull) capacity, on the first layer of cable. I say nominal, because a blueprinted winch, carefully lubricated, wired with ultra low resistance cabling to the best power source available, will pull far in excess your average installation. However, in point of fact it's also considered nominal for the opposite reason: an electric winch has the problem that as it stalls, the amperage spike can exert momentary forces far in excess of the rated pull. It's pretty much the worst of both worlds, because the moment of stall-out is when the cable (or something else) is most likely to break because the rated pull is exceeded, but the torque spike won't actually move your vehicle (at least not much more than a millimetre).

Hydraulic winches are usually more precise provided you have the right pump. Their stall limit is usually set by a bypass valve, which is pretty foolproof. The drum just stops turning.

 

[Metcalf]

If the recovery is becoming THAT taxing on the winch you should probably take the time to dig, jack, stack, or something.

It would suck, but if your really stuck you can always unload the vehicle and try again. In general most of the 'expedition' or just weekend camping vehicles I see are TOTALLY overloaded, not to mention loaded wrong.

 

[Outback]

If the recovery is becoming THAT taxing on the winch you should probably take the time to dig, jack, stack, or something.

It would suck, but if your really stuck you can always unload the vehicle and try again. In general most of the 'expedition' or just weekend camping vehicles I see are TOTALLY overloaded, not to mention loaded wrong.

You are absolutely correct. When you are able to you should assist the winch as much as possible. For instance, Dont try and winch a 1 ton truck barried to its doors in mud with 44" tires below grade. Its not going to happen and you will start to bend frames axles and winch points on both vehicles. Instead you need to create an escape zone for the vehicle. Shovels are your best friend in this case. Plus as you are being pulled out by a winch you should have the vehicle in "D" drive. You should only give it enough gas to spin the tires as fast as they would go at that speed your being pulled at. Dont sit there and lead foot it you will only dig in further. Speaking of over loading cables. ALWAYS use some type of winch shock. Im not sure of the proper term but if a winch cable breaks it can cut someone in reach of it in half. No joke. To help minimize this wrap a recovery strap around the mid section of the extended cable. You can also use a jacket. ARB makes one which I have that is made from heavy duty material which hangs over and down the cable. It has velcro to keep it closed. Just make sure you move it back to center (cable tension released) then start winching again. Its also a good idea to have both hoods open. This will protect the windshield in case a cable breaks. Doesnt do your hood any good but you can still see to drive out. Also never have anyone within reach of the cable if it does break. I always send none essential personel out of the danger zone and past. The wincher and winchee should stay in the vehicles for added protection. Some times this just doesnt work but for most situations its fine. After your pulls are done pay out all the cable and respool onto the drum. A ballpeen hammer works great to properly get the cable spooled correctly especially on the sides of the drum. Inspect the cable as it goes in. Stop and back up if your cable doesnt get spooled on right. ALWAYS wear heavy duty leather gloves. I like Goat leather gloves for this. NEVER get your fingers near the fairleads or drum. Thats a good way to loose them fast.

 

[chasespeed]

I have minimal experience with winches on anything small. That said...

I have a MileMarker Military hydraulic on the front of my Ram. its 12k. I would have to look at the paper again, but, the stall is 16k single, and 34k with a snatch block... something like that.. thats the TEST data.. good enough for my 8k Cummins I think. Plus, as mentioned, they are 100% duty cycle, as long as your engine is running, the winch will work. Now, I have a p-pumped 12v... which means, as long as its getting air, it will run... If I end up -upside down, I think I will have bigger problems that just trying to winch out...

Chase