When a winch line breaks...

[calicamper]

If you need replacement synthetic line, here is the bast place to shop;

http://www.amsteelblue.com/

Yep Amsteel is your typical synthetic stuff for winches. Stretch factor is low vs price and ease of use and durability. Its easy to work with. Ive built various tapered spin sheets and other sailing gear with it. It would be my top pick. Cost wise its not that much compared to higher tech lower stretch stuff.

 

[v_man]

I think the climbing rope analogy kinda went over your head AFBronco . He didn't mean literally climb up a rope like Adam West in Batman . He meant using a climbing rope as a safety measure when rock climbing , to arrest a fall. Manilla ropes were used long ago before nylon ropes with much higher strength and ability to stretch were introduced to rock climbers. Manilla ropes are antiquated, outdated, and inferior (to nylon ropes), as some might argue steel winch lines are .

Anyhow , the UV argument is also pointless IMO because the vast majority of folks who run synthetic lines also have a cover over their winch, or their winch and line are tucked under a bumper and out of the sun . It's not like the 10 minutes your synthetic rope is exposed to sunlight during a rescue is going to damage it...

 

[unseenone]

Gang, Amsteel Blue is a brand of Masterpull--- Check the footer of the web site. If you are interested in either product I believe you can simply contact Masterpull. They also sometimes have an odd size or special on this or that. What I liked when I ordered is that they custom made up exactly what i wanted, and advised as to the best product, and various options. I spoke with and e-mailed bre@ masterpull.com and she was great. I ended up going with Superline.

Anyway, I don't see a reason to get into an argument over this, at the end of the day, you have a choice and only you know your specific situation and use. If I were regularly winching stumps or logs, etc. In the snow and ice, salt, then I would most likely fit the steel line for example.

 

[calicamper]

http://www.westmarine.com/buy/samson-rope--amsteel-blue-dyneema-as-78-single-braid--P014895700

Amsteel is the name of the actual line. Its very easy to work with regarding making tapered loops etc that should cost very little and if your paying way too much for the line per foot any building up of the loops etc should be included in your price.

For kicks compare raw line per foot cost at westmarine to guage your winch line cost.

 

[Airmapper]

I recently found 3/8" Amsteel Blue for $2.12 a foot and bought that for my winch from an arborist supplier. I figured it would be beneficial for me to learn how to make eyes and splices anyway, why pay more for lines that come pre-assembled in a configuration I don't like and would undo anyway. The cheaper price meant I bought much more line than I needed, leaving me extra for other projects. (Extension, rigging sections, shackles.....) Plus now I have a discount code, I may buy more.

One thing I wonder about is if there is a difference on how the line would be prepared for a winch vs other applications. I have a short piece from winchline.com, it has a more waxy feel to it than my Amsteel Blue line, but its the same line. Actually I would think a waxy coating would add friction and be detrimental to the line, perhaps not if used with a roller fairlead, but I will be using a hawse so I think I prefer my less tacky line.

I am preparing my first winch to mount, it came with steel cable but I stripped it off in favor of synthetic. A big reason for me was weight, this winch will be installed on my daily driver, so I need to shave every pound I can. The next is ease to work with. Safety is a plus, but the other reasons won me over, for my application.

 

[calicamper]

I recently found 3/8" Amsteel Blue for $2.12 a foot and bought that for my winch from an arborist supplier. I figured it would be beneficial for me to learn how to make eyes and splices anyway, why pay more for lines that come pre-assembled in a configuration I don't like and would undo anyway. The cheaper price meant I bought much more line than I needed, leaving me extra for other projects. (Extension, rigging sections, shackles.....) Plus now I have a discount code, I may buy more.

One thing I wonder about is if there is a difference on how the line would be prepared for a winch vs other applications. I have a short piece from winchline.com, it has a more waxy feel to it than my Amsteel Blue line, but its the same line. Actually I would think a waxy coating would add friction and be detrimental to the line, perhaps not if used with a roller fairlead, but I will be using a hawse so I think I prefer my less tacky line.

I am preparing my first winch to mount, it came with steel cable but I stripped it off in favor of synthetic. A big reason for me was weight, this winch will be installed on my daily driver, so I need to shave every pound I can. The next is ease to work with. Safety is a plus, but the other reasons won me over, for my application.

Tacky stuff will also pick up dirt and make a mess of the bare line. Its fun to work with regarding tapered eyes not to mention with a little practice and extra line as you pointed out you can build other items to add to your ground tackle kit.

 

[Louisd75]

Gang, Amsteel Blue is a brand of Masterpull--- Check the footer of the web site. If you are interested in either product I believe you can simply contact Masterpull. They also sometimes have an odd size or special on this or that. What I liked when I ordered is that they custom made up exactly what i wanted, and advised as to the best product, and various options. I spoke with and e-mailed bre@ masterpull.com and she was great. I ended up going with Superline.

Anyway, I don't see a reason to get into an argument over this, at the end of the day, you have a choice and only you know your specific situation and use. If I were regularly winching stumps or logs, etc. In the snow and ice, salt, then I would most likely fit the steel line for example.

Just to clarify, AmSteel is a trademark of Samson Industries. They make line for everything from zipper pulls to supertanker towing. It's a separate business from MasterPull. Both businesses are based near Bellingham and I've been fortunate to have received a tour of the Samson factory. It's impressive to say the least. I'm not sure if MasterPull makes their line or has it contracted out but I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Samson made MasterPull's lines, especially when you consider that the owner of MasterPull comes from a commercial fishing background (an industry that Samson is heavily involved in). I met the MasterPull family a few years back and they're a good group of people whom I'd have no hesitation doing business with.

I'm not sure why wire vs synthetic is always such a polarizing debate. There are definite conveniences and compromises for both of them. Personally I use synthetic. It's light enough that my wife has no problem dragging it to the nearest tree while I continue my ongoing seat heater functionality test :elkgrin:

 

[Louisd75]

http://www.westmarine.com/buy/samson-rope--amsteel-blue-dyneema-as-78-single-braid--P014895700

Amsteel is the name of the actual line. Its very easy to work with regarding making tapered loops etc that should cost very little and if your paying way too much for the line per foot any building up of the loops etc should be included in your price.

For kicks compare raw line per foot cost at westmarine to guage your winch line cost.

You're still probably paying way too much at West Marine You're better off going with just about any marine supply company that deals with commercial fishing. I've been buying mine from LFS lately, $1.95/ft vs $2.75/ft at West Marine in the 3/8" flavor

http://www.lfsmarineoutdoor.com/samson-amsteel-blue-rope.html

 

[calicamper]

You're still probably paying way too much at West Marine You're better off going with just about any marine supply company that deals with commercial fishing. I've been buying mine from LFS lately, $1.95/ft vs $2.75/ft at West Marine in the 3/8" flavor

http://www.lfsmarineoutdoor.com/samson-amsteel-blue-rope.html

No doubt. Just used it given just about everyone can find a local ish westmarine if they need it in a pinch.

 

[Strizzo]

No doubt. Just used it given just about everyone can find a local ish westmarine if they need it in a pinch.

that is true, but i found out the hard way that not all stores will carry amsteel in stock, I tried and was told that in most stores its an order-in item. if your area has a lot of sailing, or the store has a rigging shop, then you'd be more likely for them to have it.

 

[jeverich]

No, Masterpull does not own the trademark for Amsteel - and I say this after just having filed my tax return with Masterpull's name on one of my W2s...

As a commercial fisherman; and a trawler, both wire rope and synthetic rope has it's place in whatever operation you're undertaking. Honestly, I'd imagine most off road winching scenarios are within the envelope of rating within wire rope. However - I've got Amsteel on my own winch - mostly due to the fact that I can re-splice 12 strand Dyneema about 10 times (and more effectively) than I can splice 6x19 wire.

It never ceases to amaze me how many people are willing to fork over easily 4x the overall cost of raw synthetic rope to purchase it from a retailer pre-spliced. Seriously. Samson publishes their splice instructions online for free - and it takes all of about 5 minutes to comprehend and execute.

I've parted 1.25" Samson TS-II Dyneema SK75 line before, and the argument that it doesn't store kinetic energy is utter BS. Of course, that was on a 50k LB hydraulic winch...

Bottom line. Use common sense.

I've got an acquaintance that's missing an eye as a result of synthetic line breaking, a family friend that lost a hand due to wire rope breaking and a friend of a friend that lost his life from a nylon line breaking. Use your judgement on establishing a safety zone when placing ANY line/rope under ANY stress. I find myself cringing when watching the videos of off road winching on YouTube.

But what do I know? I'm just a dumb commercial fishing Captain.

Just got this material to play with on the boat; put the protective seizing on it yesterday:

1 1/8 12 Strand; Polyester Jacket with a Dyneema SK75 core...

 

[unseenone]

Those are all great points. I never implied by my previous comments that masterpull owned amsteel, I simply pointed out that the web site someone mentioned, is in fact owned by masterpull, their name is on it at the bottom of the page. http://amsteelblue.com/ I'm pretty sure we've established at this point that Dyneema is the manufacturer and owner of the Intellectual Property.

I recommend them, because I was happy with their service and products.

Safety is absolutely priority one when winching.

 

[jeverich]

Those are all great points. I never implied by my previous comments that masterpull owned amsteel, I simply pointed out that the web site someone mentioned, is in fact owned by masterpull, their name is on it at the bottom of the page. http://amsteelblue.com/ I'm pretty sure we've established at this point that Dyneema is the manufacturer and owner of the Intellectual Property.

I recommend them, because I was happy with their service and products.

Safety is absolutely priority one when winching.

Absolutely. Didn't intend for my comments to come accross as brash.

If we want to get totally out into the semantic weeds (I'm actually twisted enough that I find this stuff interesting)...

Dyneema is merely a trade name for a specific formula. DSM, out of the Netherlands, developed a formulation and called it Dyneema, Honeywell/Allied Signal developed a similar product and called it Spectra. Both are manufactured using a specific extrusion process.

Interesting, there are different grades of Dyneema, such as SK75/SK38 etc. The higher the number, the higher the strength. Some of the lower "SK" fibers are now being produced in China; although the majority is still manufactured in Europe.

 

[calicamper]

No, Masterpull does not own the trademark for Amsteel - and I say this after just having filed my tax return with Masterpull's name on one of my W2s...

As a commercial fisherman; and a trawler, both wire rope and synthetic rope has it's place in whatever operation you're undertaking. Honestly, I'd imagine most off road winching scenarios are within the envelope of rating within wire rope. However - I've got Amsteel on my own winch - mostly due to the fact that I can re-splice 12 strand Dyneema about 10 times (and more effectively) than I can splice 6x19 wire.

It never ceases to amaze me how many people are willing to fork over easily 4x the overall cost of raw synthetic rope to purchase it from a retailer pre-spliced. Seriously. Samson publishes their splice instructions online for free - and it takes all of about 5 minutes to comprehend and execute.

I've parted 1.25" Samson TS-II Dyneema SK75 line before, and the argument that it doesn't store kinetic energy is utter BS. Of course, that was on a 50k LB hydraulic winch...

Bottom line. Use common sense.

I've got an acquaintance that's missing an eye as a result of synthetic line breaking, a family friend that lost a hand due to wire rope breaking and a friend of a friend that lost his life from a nylon line breaking. Use your judgement on establishing a safety zone when placing ANY line/rope under ANY stress. I find myself cringing when watching the videos of off road winching on YouTube.

But what do I know? I'm just a dumb commercial fishing Captain.

Just got this material to play with on the boat; put the protective seizing on it yesterday:

1 1/8 12 Strand; Polyester Jacket with a Dyneema SK75 core...

Agreed amsteel is very esy to work with. A big reason I like it so much. Sit down watch a game on the boob tube and build some splices and do some whipping etc. My dogs leash is currently some left over Amsteel from a rigging project on the boat. LoL

I hate fish hooks on cable thats enough to get me using synthetic where it makes sense.

 

[unseenone]

I didn't take it as brash, I just wanted to be sure I was not misunderstood. As for the made in china stuff, they can keep it. I would rather pay more for a product made elsewhere. The problem once you engage with a company there, is they will take your proprietary stuff, produce your product, then sell it out the back door as well. So, if you do not care about Intellectual Property or quality, and don't mind your manufacturer being your competitor, it's a great deal.