Which Diesel for RTW w/ FJ47?
- Thread starter spectre6000
- Start date
cruiser guy
Explorer
Current production and popular in the developing world. Two reasons it should be on the top of the list of engines for this sort of project.
These were in most Toyota's used by NGO's, in buses, trucks and who knows where else. Call it the "Chevy 350 of the developing world" for parts availability!
The 12H-T is not as common as you might be lead to believe. The 2H would be a better choice if you want to go with that engine family.
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spectre6000
Observer
hks3gte said:
These are compelling arguments. Any thoughts on whether or not the 1HZ has enough grunt to move a fully loaded FJ47 and trailer at highway speeds?
I'm not that keen on 1HZ, but have towed a trailer with a loaded troopie and it had no trouble cruising along the highway.
You need to rev them a bit more than a 12HT, but they seem to be a bit quieter perhaps? 1HZ feels as happy at 3000rpm as a 12HT is at 2200rpm.
I can't see any real downside to a HZ, the engine seems more compact and tidier than a HT, has almost as much power ( if you rev it up) its not direct injection which is a negative in my book, but IDI is probably why is quieter so that could be a positive...
It's not got a cambelt so thats good, the ones ive seen have inline injection pumps another positive.
If you can get a good one, then go for it!
You need to rev them a bit more than a 12HT, but they seem to be a bit quieter perhaps? 1HZ feels as happy at 3000rpm as a 12HT is at 2200rpm.
I can't see any real downside to a HZ, the engine seems more compact and tidier than a HT, has almost as much power ( if you rev it up) its not direct injection which is a negative in my book, but IDI is probably why is quieter so that could be a positive...
It's not got a cambelt so thats good, the ones ive seen have inline injection pumps another positive.
If you can get a good one, then go for it!
cruiser guy
Explorer
They move buses (Toyota Coaster) and 2 1/2 ton trucks (Toyota Dyna). How much load are you planning on hauling around? If you start pulling around more than a 2 1/2 ton truck maybe you need a 2 1/2 ton truck and not a troopie!
I've driven my '82 BJ60 which is a 4 cylinder diesel all over North America (Canada to Costa Rica and British Columbia to New York). I'm now in Africa with the same vehicle. I won't out drag many cars but I'm not out to win speed contests anyways. I do keep up with the traffic most of the time. It has enough pull to get me where I want to go. Next spring I'll be in Europe with it on the Autobahn. I'm not worried, someone needs to use the right hand lane. You don't want to be doing 80 mph in a troopie with a trailer behind anyways.
1leglance
2007 Expedition Trophy Champion, Overland Certifie
I am going to go against the grain in a big way here....
DON'T swap anything..
instead figure out what you budget would be for swaping, add another 50% to that number (honestly we all know that is how it goes) and then immediately hit the road with that amount of money in your bank account and just enjoy the trip.
Too often people spend tooooooo much time & money on the build that would be so much better spent on the experience.
If you don't believe me then just pm some of the folks on this board or Horizons Unlimited or Advrider and ask them about money/build vs travel.
Sure you get better gas milage with a diesel but maint cost rise also...and if you are going to central or south america fuel cost could be less than the USA.
If you don't think this is a good idea then I challenge you to take 1/2 of your build budget and just do a trip down to Mexico with that money....just go ahead and travel & enjoy however far that budget takes you. Then when you get back you can see if you would rather build a rig than travel.
All that said I am planning a 6.2 GM diesel swap with turbo into my 70 burb...but my wife is the office mngr of a diesel shop so a freshly rebuild engine alot of other bits won't cost me a bit.....bbbuuuuutttt I am still stalling on the build as I am enjoying my burb too much to tear it down, even at 10mpg.
Not trying to rain on your parade, just giving you the benefit of my experience and the words I have heard from many many other travelers.
DON'T swap anything..
instead figure out what you budget would be for swaping, add another 50% to that number (honestly we all know that is how it goes) and then immediately hit the road with that amount of money in your bank account and just enjoy the trip.
Too often people spend tooooooo much time & money on the build that would be so much better spent on the experience.
If you don't believe me then just pm some of the folks on this board or Horizons Unlimited or Advrider and ask them about money/build vs travel.
Sure you get better gas milage with a diesel but maint cost rise also...and if you are going to central or south america fuel cost could be less than the USA.
If you don't think this is a good idea then I challenge you to take 1/2 of your build budget and just do a trip down to Mexico with that money....just go ahead and travel & enjoy however far that budget takes you. Then when you get back you can see if you would rather build a rig than travel.
All that said I am planning a 6.2 GM diesel swap with turbo into my 70 burb...but my wife is the office mngr of a diesel shop so a freshly rebuild engine alot of other bits won't cost me a bit.....bbbuuuuutttt I am still stalling on the build as I am enjoying my burb too much to tear it down, even at 10mpg.
Not trying to rain on your parade, just giving you the benefit of my experience and the words I have heard from many many other travelers.
spectre6000
Observer
To be perfectly honest I'm not all that concerned with the cost, and I'll be doing the majority (if not all) of the work myself. It's the sort of thing I truly enjoy and generally I trust my work far more than that of any shop I've seen... The rig/mechanics/driving is my half of the hobby, the travel is my wife's half, and we both enjoy the adventure. If I get to build and use my rig to my desired level, it's more fun for me. The 1HZ seems like it's close enough to stock that it would have the added benefit of just keeping the rest of the drivetrain as well. As for cam belt, looking at the Wikipedia article on the 1HZ it looks like the cam is gear driven, am I seeing something incorrectly?
Yea I was thinking that it was gear driven like 12HT but no, it has a belt behind that plastic cover!
The timing belt is quick and easy to change on both the HZ & HD, it might even be the same belt?
So the timing belt and glow plugs are a bit of a backwards step from a 12HT, but it makes the motor a bit quieter and cheaper...
The timing belt is quick and easy to change on both the HZ & HD, it might even be the same belt?
So the timing belt and glow plugs are a bit of a backwards step from a 12HT, but it makes the motor a bit quieter and cheaper...
spectre6000
Observer
What is that photo labeled "1HZ Timing Gears" actually of? Wikipedia isn't known for being accurate so much as comprehensive...
I understand the gears are preferred to the belt, but (exposing some diesel ignorance here) what's the deal with glow plugs?
[EDIT:] I see... The belt goes on pulleys that have been removed in the photo... It seems weird that they'd have put gears everywhere nice and pretty like that, and then slap a belt in for the timing... Odd engineering choice there...
I understand the gears are preferred to the belt, but (exposing some diesel ignorance here) what's the deal with glow plugs?
[EDIT:] I see... The belt goes on pulleys that have been removed in the photo... It seems weird that they'd have put gears everywhere nice and pretty like that, and then slap a belt in for the timing... Odd engineering choice there...
cruiser guy
Explorer
I wouldn't say that is going "against the grain" but it is not the original posters question. If the original posters vehicle has a fairly common in the developing world engine then I am totally on board with you but like I say, it's not his question.
Also, an FJ47 implies that this has a 6 cylinder gas engine. The old "F" or "2F" is not as common as it once might have been in the developing world mostly due to it's love for gasoline!
The timing belt on the 1HZ is actually fairly common engineering in the light/medium duty diesel engines. Not only does Toyota do this, and they have in many other engines as well, but VW also has this and I am sure there are others.
direct injection engines (12HT 1HD etc) inject the fuel directly into the combustion chamber, and most don't have glow plugs, it usually makes them slightly more efficient.
In indirect injection engines the fuel is injected into a pre combustion chamber where the glow plug helps to ignite the fuel when the engine is cold.
I think DI engines have stronger heads on average, as they don't have pre combustion bits to fail or a hole for a glow plug.
Toyota DI engines have a glow screen, like a serious toaster element, that heats up the air going into the engine when starting in very cold conditions. The glow screen can act like a filter and catch bits of broken turbo etc, so it has another use!
I've heard stories of the pre cup failing and falling into the engine, but have never seen it first hand...
If you have glowplugs they usually need to work to get the motor running, with a DI engine it will usually start just fine without the glowscreen even in freezing conditions.
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The 12HT is getting hard to get parts for,none is in production and the dealers have none. So youll be relying on used parts which are almost non exisitant.You can get service parts like injector tips,gaskets,seals etc and there are aftermarket rebuid kits.
Heads ,cams,cranks,manifolds and some of the vacuum valves are unobtanium new.
The 1HZ is still in production and was sold on every continent and is much easier and cheaper to procure.
Heads ,cams,cranks,manifolds and some of the vacuum valves are unobtanium new.
The 1HZ is still in production and was sold on every continent and is much easier and cheaper to procure.
Gears are not preferrable to belts.They keep engine vibration down and they only fail if you go 300% or more over the 100000klm service schedule. Its a 20 min job to change and the belt can be had for as little as $25.
The gears run the pump from the crank,the belt runs off the pump and times the overhead cam.Its fairly common on newer diesels.The 12HT has its roots in the 70s
Glowplugs work fine on a 1HZ. Both HZJ75 I have owned were using the same glowplugs from new 17 years later and 280000klms and 212000klms.
One more thing,there is no such model as a FJ47.Its either a FJ45 6cyl petrol or a HJ47 6cyl diesel(there are also BJ45 4cyl diesel)
A better view of how the belt runs the cam from the pump. You would need a complex gear set up to run the OHC
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Containerized
Adventurer
We don't even touch highway speeds except on the paved sections near Kampala, but that 1HZ would have enough grunt to get you up to the 30mph that's the maximum speed at which you could really be comfortable on most African roads. The 1HZ is still in production and parts are readily available. There are also sources in ZA (exported to most African regions) for common spares like clutches and small parts. The one issue with the 1HZ is cooling - it does not like to run hot, and I've seen a few give up in Sudan and elsewhere. Usually it's a zero drama event, and you can pick up a 1HZ gasket set about as easily as you can find a bottle of Coca-Cola in this part of Africa (i.e. on every street corner). I've seen everything from vented hoods to an extra fan tied to the crank. Clearly, cooling is an issue if you're going to be running the 1HZ at low speeds (common in Africa) at ambient temperatures of 40C or above (common here in northern Uganda during the dry season and unavoidable in parts of Ethiopia, Somaliland, Sudan, etc.). Can't really speak to other regions, but I know the 1HZ is running around in South America (we often see parts here in Africa that are used-but-useable parts taken off trucks from Brasil, Venezuela, etc.).