Which EV would you buy?

[tacomabill]

You gonna trust the manufacturer's data (and Elon Musk) over Car and Driver which did an actual driving test and posted the data? Do a web search for how much energy does the heater in an EV use? A gas car uses no additional gas to run the heater as there is plenty of heat available from the hot engine. My Tacoma with FWC camper has a 380 mile range in dry highway conditions and with two jerry cans of gas I get another 190, so there really is no doubt about the superior range over an EV.

 

[tacomabill]

If I went the EV route I would install a propane heater. I once knew a guy with a VW bug who ski bummed and hot wired one to the ignition so when the car started he got an instant blast of nice hot air. The tank was in the front storage comparment and the exhaust was vented outside. I don't know what brand or size or type of propane tank, but I would look into that.

 

[billiebob]

You gonna trust the manufacturer's data (and Elon Musk) over Car and Driver which did an actual driving test and posted the data? Do a web search for how much energy does the heater in an EV use? A gas car uses no additional gas to run the heater as there is plenty of heat available from the hot engine. My Tacoma with FWC camper has a 380 mile range in dry highway conditions and with two jerry cans of gas I get another 190, so there really is no doubt about the superior range over an EV.

The problem with gas cars in cold temperatures has nothing to do with the heater. But quite right, EV technology still needs to improve their range. The amazing thing about EVs on regular roads is they can charge while travelling 60mph, there are several freeways in Europe experimenting with this technology giving EVs virtually unlimited range.... without carrying any extra fuel. That might not ever make it to overlanding vehicles ... or maybe ... like a few other technologies which seemed futuristic 60 years ago....

 

[Lovetheworld]

Here in Europe, people use Teslas to drive at least 1000km to a Ski resort in winter. It works fine.
The only issue is that the amount of superchargers did not grow as fast as the amount of sold Teslas, and all the people are going the same weekend. So there was a queue.

Heating is less of an issue with the car full and going for a long drive, as yoi need little to keep the cabin at a temperature. Doing multiple short rides with the car completely cooling down in between is worse.

Anyway, I use heating and AC in my electric car whenever it suits me. Since Im not driving holidays, the range is always adequate so I don't have to care for what speed I drive or what heater or AC is doing.

 

[calicamper]

Also keep in mind the current Tesla HVAC is nothing like the T1 system. Yes HVAC in EVs is a big issue and it is a big difference between a $20,000 Chevy Bolt and a $45,000 T3.

The critics always seem to miss the use pattern that these vehicles are targeting. 90+% of weekly vehicle use is typically local short trips especially now with COVID stay home factor. Hell my 20 mile EV only range in my plugin hybrid has 9 month old gas sitting in the fuel tank. I have started to leave it uncharged on purpose to burn through the gas before it goes rotten.

Ford is even skipping plugin hybrid in fleet vehicles because they have piles of data showing that a mild hybrid that can creep in slow City traffic and reducing ICE idle time gives the best bang for the buck/payload impact etc. But for private owners with typical local trips a plugin hybrid makes a huge impact on ICE run time which does lower costs on maintenance and wear on the ICE gear.

As for choosing to drive your big F150 over say the prius it wouldn’t really matter if the F150 was largely EV only on your local trips.

 

[calicamper]

We're on an overland website talking about EV's in the context of long distance unsupported off-highway travel.

Nobody disputes the validity of EV's for commuting and grocery getting but this isn't grocerygettingportal.com

Which case plugin hybrid offers a really unique combination of things a overlander would value.
Increased range, bump in low speed grunt, extended ICE service range, quiet operation mode. Etc
Interesting electric power source options

 

[Todd780]

We're on an overland website talking about EV's in the context of long distance unsupported off-highway travel.

Nobody disputes the validity of EV's for commuting and grocery getting but this isn't grocerygettingportal.com

What if you cook those groceries in a skottle and eat them with a titanium spork?

 

[Todd780]

Which case plugin hybrid offers a really unique combination of things a overlander would value.
Increased range, bump in low speed grunt, extended ICE service range, quiet operation mode. Etc
Interesting electric power source options

For me, that is the best combo. Really curious to see if I could get a F150 hybrid with Max tow and the 7.2 Kw generator....

Hmm.... Does the F150 hybrid allow for some travel on battery power only? Like the Wrangler 4xe?

 

[Marine]

We're on an overland website talking about EV's in the context of long distance unsupported off-highway travel.

Nobody disputes the validity of EV's for commuting and grocery getting but this isn't grocerygettingportal.com

I hope you don't mind but I'm using the grocery getting portal comment in my signature. It made me laugh.

 

[T-Willy]

Which case plugin hybrid offers a really unique combination of things a overlander would value.
Increased range, bump in low speed grunt, extended ICE service range, quiet operation mode. Etc
Interesting electric power source options

I agree. In fact, I think the added efficiency and range is game changing. The range expansion with just five or ten gallons of extra fuel with 50 (Wrangler PHEV) or 83 (Defender) MPGe brings limitless possibilities for self supported remote touring routes. Having pioneered the technology, I am eager to see what Toyota brings to the table.

 

[Lovetheworld]

As for choosing to drive your big F150 over say the prius it wouldn’t really matter if the F150 was largely EV only on your local trips.

Even if that F150 runs on electricity it is still a stupid idea to drive a truck when you don't need one.

Regardless of how a vehicle is powered, a truck will always use double the amount of anything Prius like (in terms of shape and weight)

You can see it already, a Tesla model 3 will do 150 watthour per km easy (mostly lower) and in a Rivian you will do 300 watthour per km.

You are still driving a heavy vehicle with the aerodynamics of a building through the wind. That will always be a dumb idea unless you are actually using the capacity of the vehicle. Which is almost never for a lot of people.

So, just get a sensible EV like a Bolt or a Leaf, and keep the truck for when you really need it. Like offroad trips or whatever.
That is probably better for the eniviremont AND your wallet than buying a Rivian.

A plugin hybrid suffers from the same problems, however, in the end you have one car instead of 2, so lots of advantages too.

If you do light offroading the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV is a nice offer, and available second hand. We decided against it because the electric range wouldn't be enough for most days.

Now we got a Bolt, and still have the 4x4 van. Maybe we buy and ols Cayenne or something.
I'll be honest, I still would like a Rivian though. It will be superior 4x4. But consume twice the electricity of a regular EV.

 

[Todd780]

Even if that F150 runs on electricity it is still a stupid idea to drive a truck when you don't need one.

Regardless of how a vehicle is powered, a truck will always use double the amount of anything Prius like (in terms of shape and weight)

You can see it already, a Tesla model 3 will do 150 watthour per km easy (mostly lower) and in a Rivian you will do 300 watthour per km.

You are still driving a heavy vehicle with the aerodynamics of a building through the wind. That will always be a dumb idea unless you are actually using the capacity of the vehicle. Which is almost never for a lot of people.

So, just get a sensible EV like a Bolt or a Leaf, and keep the truck for when you really need it. Like offroad trips or whatever.
That is probably better for the eniviremont AND your wallet than buying a Rivian.

A plugin hybrid suffers from the same problems, however, in the end you have one car instead of 2, so lots of advantages too.

If you do light offroading the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV is a nice offer, and available second hand. We decided against it because the electric range wouldn't be enough for most days.

Now we got a Bolt, and still have the 4x4 van. Maybe we buy and ols Cayenne or something.
I'll be honest, I still would like a Rivian though. It will be superior 4x4. But consume twice the electricity of a regular EV.

I see what you are saying but, even if I don't need F150 capability everyday, it still works out cheaper than having two vehicles. Which is why a hybrid F150 is appealing to me.

That was also the case with me looking at cars around the $5,000 mark. Old Outbacks, Corollas etc... Didn't really save me any money.

 

[Lovetheworld]

Well, an electric car is so cheap to run it should hopefully make the difference.

But yeah, you have dirt cheap fuel over there. That is the problem.
A litre of petrol costs 1.50 Euro over here. Most US trucks over here run on gas, you know actual gas like LPG.

That and tax causes a small car to be more economical easily.

We know an American expat family over here. They realized how idiotic it is to drive the kids to school in a Sequoia, which would be quite big here. Now they do that on a bicycle

 

[jdlobb]

I paid the $100 deposit to get on the list for a Cybertruck, but I'll be waiting to see how they actually stack up in the real world before buying it though.

 

[Todd780]

Well, an electric car is so cheap to run it should hopefully make the difference.

But yeah, you have dirt cheap fuel over there. That is the problem.
A litre of petrol costs 1.50 Euro over here. Most US trucks over here run on gas, you know actual gas like LPG.

That and tax causes a small car to be more economical easily.

We know an American expat family over here. They realized how idiotic it is to drive the kids to school in a Sequoia, which would be quite big here. Now they do that on a bicycle

I'm in Canada. Gas isn't terribly cheap here. But, you can buy a lot of gas for the price of a new electric car. Seems a cheap old gas powered economy car is the cheapest route to take.

But, even still, it's cheaper just to run one vehicle.