Which truck for me?

[deserteagle56]

Back to the OP's first post, he says "living and traveling in this truck 100% from day one." Sounds to me like a van would be a better choice than any pickup. Sleeping in the bed of a truck is OK but gets old after a short time. No headroom unless you get a high-rise topper and even then there are still a lot of compromises.

^ Right on! A van is ideal for this kind of stuff - I discovered that back in 1972 when I bought my first one and I'm still in one...

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

No doubt, IFS will "outperform, run smoother" than a solid axle. but at speed, fully loaded, you will break something sooner with IFS components than a solid axle. Those of us recommending a solid axle also read the OPs desire for reliability and durability. It is all about priorities and compromize. IFSs are smoother performers on paved roads. Solid axles are more durable off road. On washboard every joint in the suspension is stressed. Yes an IFS will deliver a smoother higher performance ride, IFSs reduce unsprung weight. If your goal is ride, comfort, don't lift it, stick with wheels and tires no heavier than stock. Washboard is all about minimizing unsprung weight. Yes a solid axle is exponentially heavier, but there are very few joints to fail and by comparison to IFSs way fewer pieces to fail. What matters to you. How far away is a tow. How many tools and spare parts do you want to carry.

Laughs in I-Beam

My beef with independent suspension isn't that the wheels can go floppy floppy independent of each other... it is that anymore they look to FWD cars for inspiration.

Things where a solid was historicaly better than a modern North American IFS:

1. Real wheel bearings. Can clean and repack repeatedly and they virtually last forever. Spares take up essentially no room if desired to carry and fit either side. Today there is a big push going to the style of wheel bearings that requires the knuckle to be removed from the car and the old bearing pressed out/new one pressed in. For a roadside/trailside repair I would rather have the one that doesn't require a shop press.

2. The ones that are not totally car based with a McPherson strut... they like to make the upper balljoint part of the upper control arm. So when you change balljoints you have to buy a whole control arm and then have it realigned because you lost your alignment. Kinda irritating.

3. U-joints vibe a little more if you turn sharp but are easier to DIY repair short of throwing a whole new/remain halfshaft in it. Again, much easier/cheaper trailside fix and not at the mercy of huge rubber boots for longevity.

BUT solid front axles are working in the same direction with unit wheel bearings (like $200+ a side) and requiring expensive suspension rebuilds (wheel bearings, balljoints, TRE's, trackbar...) around every 100k+/- so there is that. As they say, "there is no such thing as a free lunch"

My truck has kind of a weird hybrid that rides better than a solid front axle but is as serviceable as an older solid front axle.

The "keep it greased" line is funny because you can't do anything to sealed unit wheel bearings but yell at them or throw them and from the factory all the balljoints and whatever have been "sealed for life" for at least the last 40 years, probably longer.

Anymore if you are shopping new I don't know if there is really a "right" answer unless you want the better articulation of a solid front axle.

 

[DaveInDenver]

1. Real wheel bearings. Can clean and repack repeatedly and they virtually last forever. Spares take up essentially no room if desired to carry and fit either side. Today there is a big push going to the style of wheel bearings that requires the knuckle to be removed from the car and the old bearing pressed out/new one pressed in. For a roadside/trailside repair I would rather have the one that doesn't require a shop press.

I don't know how other manufacturers do it but on Toyotas with unit front wheel bearings the spindle does not have to come off to change them. Once off the truck the wheel bearing assemblies themselves require a press to repair, though.

The risk in the field is contamination from water or mud or developing a flat spot, so I would prefer being able to service bearings over carrying a bulky, heavy assembly. From the manufacturer's standpoint it makes a lot more sense to have an assembly requiring no adjustment and it's easier for mechanics later, so I know that's the reasoning. It is pretty easy to R&R wheel bearings on my Tacoma.

Honestly though in 25 years of off road driving I've only once had an issue. My old FJ40 sucked in silty spring run off in Medano Creek by the Sand Dunes. That truck *should* have been the most immune being solid axle, closed knuckles, loose bearings but for whatever reason - luck of the draw, marginal seal - it was the only time I've had to drain water and repack bearings in camp during a trip.

The "keep it greased" line is funny because you can't do anything to sealed unit wheel bearings but yell at them or throw them and from the factory all the balljoints and whatever have been "sealed for life" for at least the last 40 years, probably longer.

The most important thing I think is to inspect and maintain your junk and you'll avoid the majority of problems no matter how your truck is designed.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

I don't know how other manufacturers do it but on Toyotas with unit front wheel bearings the spindle does not have to come off to change them. Once off the truck the wheel bearing assemblies themselves require a press to repair, though.

The risk in the field is contamination from water or mud or developing a flat spot, so I would prefer being able to service bearings over carrying a bulky, heavy assembly. From the manufacturer's standpoint it makes a lot more sense to have an assembly requiring no adjustment and it's easier for mechanics later, so I know that's the reasoning. It is pretty easy to R&R wheel bearings on my Tacoma.

I am sure it is faster on the assembly line because they don't need skilled labor to set the wheel bearings correctly and then after that they can get them in and out of shops faster is the reason they went to it. Oddly a lot of 2wd pickups still use component wheel bearings... I haven't figured that one out yet.

Like my Ranger, I have to take the wheel bearings apart when I do brakes as the rotor is the "hub" So whenever I have the rotors off, might as well clean/repack the bearings while I am there. I have had the truck 20 years this year and just put new bearings in the front of it for the first time last year... when I put a heavier duty front axle in it.

My F-150 has the unit stuff, it is always a fun $120 surprise when a wheel bearing gives up. It is the bolt on style, the hardest part is paying for the stupid things. I think I have replaced 3 of them so far.

 

[Buddha.]

OP doesn't haul or tow anything heavy, doesn't care about fuel mileage, and is already used to a minimalistic approach. He wants a smoother ride than the car he's driving now. I'd say just buy any half ton 8 foot bed and throw a high rise topper on it. Get the smallest size wheels available and go up a few tire sizes. This will be hardest on a Chevy because of the square wheel wells.

 

[billiebob]

Laughs in I-Beam

My beef with independent suspension isn't that the wheels can go floppy floppy independent of each other... it is that anymore they look to FWD cars for inspiration.

Things where a solid was historicaly better than a modern North American IFS:

1. Real wheel bearings. Can clean and repack repeatedly and they virtually last forever. Spares take up essentially no room if desired to carry and fit either side. Today there is a big push going to the style of wheel bearings that requires the knuckle to be removed from the car and the old bearing pressed out/new one pressed in. For a roadside/trailside repair I would rather have the one that doesn't require a shop press.

2. The ones that are not totally car based with a McPherson strut... they like to make the upper balljoint part of the upper control arm. So when you change balljoints you have to buy a whole control arm and then have it realigned because you lost your alignment. Kinda irritating.

3. U-joints vibe a little more if you turn sharp but are easier to DIY repair short of throwing a whole new/remain halfshaft in it. Again, much easier/cheaper trailside fix and not at the mercy of huge rubber boots for longevity.

BUT solid front axles are working in the same direction with unit wheel bearings (like $200+ a side) and requiring expensive suspension rebuilds (wheel bearings, balljoints, TRE's, trackbar...) around every 100k+/- so there is that. As they say, "there is no such thing as a free lunch"

My truck has kind of a weird hybrid that rides better than a solid front axle but is as serviceable as an older solid front axle.

The "keep it greased" line is funny because you can't do anything to sealed unit wheel bearings but yell at them or throw them and from the factory all the balljoints and whatever have been "sealed for life" for at least the last 40 years, probably longer.

Anymore if you are shopping new I don't know if there is really a "right" answer unless you want the better articulation of a solid front axle.

Great payload capacity for overlanding there too. Looks maintenance free for at least 100K miles. I too love old school over the newest technologies out there.

Trophy trucks are race vehicles, just like the Formula One and Rally Cars unsprung weight counts when yer doing 100 mph over the desert..... hardly an overlanding thing with an RTT over the box.

But I'd love to drive one.

My ultimate goal for my overlander is to never carry spares, except for a tire. I've been doing that for 30 years.

As independent front suspensions go the old Rangers Twin Traction Beams were pretty tough. Altho they had the same wonky geometry as a Trophy Truck with several extra moving parts. Technically a Trophy Truck is running Fords Twin I Beam from the 1960s. One of Fords better ideas. ???

 

[Deleted member 9101]

Found the OPs ideal vehicle. Utility if a truck, room of a van.

 

[billiebob]

sweet ^^^^

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Great payload capacity for overlanding there too. Looks maintenance free for at least 100K miles. I too love old school over the newest technologies out there.

Trophy trucks are race vehicles, just like the Formula One and Rally Cars unsprung weight counts when yer doing 100 mph over the desert..... hardly an overlanding thing with an RTT over the box.

But I'd love to drive one.

My ultimate goal for my overlander is to never carry spares, except for a tire. I've been doing that for 30 years.

As independent front suspensions go the old Rangers Twin Traction Beams were pretty tough. Altho they had the same wonky geometry as a Trophy Truck with several extra moving parts. Technically a Trophy Truck is running Fords Twin I Beam from the 1960s. One of Fords better ideas. ???

Our ol F-250 service truck at work seems to hold together pretty good with IFS for payload. Service body with a lift gate and god knows what for tools that lives on gravel roads and offroad chasing broken farm equipment commercially.

Econolines ran TIB until the end, 2wd Super Duties (250/350) still run it... must not be too horrible for payload.

I only carry spare diff oil for the axles/t-case (80/90) and wheel seals to ward off water intrusion. As long as I have it I will never need it...

 

[billiebob]

 

[billiebob]

Now - I'm not going to say a solid axle isn't good - because they are - just that specifically in a desert environment they aren't as effective or efficient as an IFS.

Absolutely, if you want an efficient, smooth riding, effective, fast suspension IFS is the best.... add in cost, time between rebuilds, odds of a broken component, durability, solid axles rule.

Driving fast and comfortable across deserts will lead to often, regular rebuilds regardless of the independent, live axle choice. But independent suspensions will cost double at least. A live axle might make 500K miles without a rebuild, it might be kinda loose but it will run, in that time an IFS will need a few rebuilds just to keep it alive.

Is your goal 10 years of trouble free running or a rebuild every 3 years.

 

[billiebob]

Our ol F-250 service truck at work seems to hold together pretty good with IFS for payload. Service body with a lift gate and god knows what for tools that lives on gravel roads and offroad chasing broken farm equipment commercially.

Econolines ran TIB until the end, 2wd Super Duties (250/350) still run it... must not be too horrible for payload.

I only carry spare diff oil for the axles/t-case (80/90) and wheel seals to ward off water intrusion. As long as I have it I will never need it...

Fords Twin I Beam /Traction Beam is the toughest independent suspension ever. Still a bit more expensive to rebuild than a live axle. But an awesome design, I'm not sure it reduced unsprung weight by much tho.

 

[Buliwyf]

It was also the most dangerous work truck suspension I've ever driven.

Also laughing at the 2wd prerunners. Lol, whut am I supposed to do with those? Stall in the mud and make motor boat noises until someone pulls me out? Those are about as useful over here for overlanding, as a Mustang with long travel suspension and 35'' AT's would be. (super hill billy though)

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Fords Twin I Beam /Traction Beam is the toughest independent suspension ever. Still a bit more expensive to rebuild than a live axle. But an awesome design, I'm not sure it reduced unsprung weight by much tho.

They do have a third u-joint.

No idea on the unsprung weight.

Mine does have an aluminum diff housing, I doubt the beams are lighter than axle tubes though....

Also laughing at the 2wd prerunners. Lol, whut am I supposed to do with those? Stall in the mud and make motor boat noises until someone pulls me out? Those are about as useful over here for overlanding, as a Mustang with long travel suspension and 35'' AT's would be. (super hill billy though)

Don't get a 2wd?

I was just saying IFS doesn't have to be weak, there are some (not just my weird style axle) that are not bad.

 

[plumber mike]

Awesome for the task at hand, but sucked buying tires because the outside edge went bald..... again.
No TTB for me again.....unless I take up high speed desserts. Yum

The Raptor sounds perfect for the OP. 20k budget might get a hammered one.