Who tows with a diesel Colorado ?

[upcruiser]

I would like to see a side by side comparison gas vs diesel while towing, on the roll acceleration. The reason I say this is that in a given grade with enough gears a gasser will just downshift into a gear low enough to be spinning max hp and or torque. That's fine at a fixed rate of speed like upma long steep pass but my feeling is when moving to the left lane for a typical passing maneuver the small diesel will make easier work out of it since it is developing a much larger max torque, in this case, at 2,000. Owner towing feedback seems to support that notion. I agree there will probably be better refinements in small diesels in the next decade, especially if the F150 diesel is well received. I think in general all of this is good for us as consumers. For this moment, the little Duramax is the best option for a small footprint fuel efficient package that can tow up to a midsize camper. Compared to pretty much every other market in the world we as North Americans have this notion that we need huge size trucks to do any sort of work where everywhere else people get it done with smaller trucks, and in Europe passenger cars towing campers everywhere for that matter. Personally, my biggest area of concern is related to regeneration intervals and how that will effect my wife with her 2 mile work commute, and idling along in low range off-road. They don't seem to like to idle for long periods of time.

 

[TwinStick]

I think we are just gonna take a breath & wait for a while. Lots of great points, both pro & con for the small diesel. Like some stated, I can buy a LOT of repairs & fuel for the $50,000 of a new truck. Apparently you can not let the 2.8L Duramax idle for too long, or else it will go into limp mode, from the few vids I watched. Not cool in my book.

 

[calicamper]

Denali Canyon 4x4 LB nada shows reports of around 40-41k lowest deal and invoice is right around 44k. The nicely optioned SLT shows 39-40k on the low end.

I see to my surprise SLE trim with the 2.8. ??? 37k option?

 

[calicamper]

Nothing GM builds should ever be bought for msrp. Way way way too many dealers with way way too much accessible inventory to justify msrp or even over invoice. Simply ask the dealer do they collect cars or sell cars? Its GM not a empty Subaru lot with the next two truck loads already sold.

 

[p nut]

I would like to see a side by side comparison gas vs diesel while towing, on the roll acceleration. The reason I say this is that in a given grade with enough gears a gasser will just downshift into a gear low enough to be spinning max hp and or torque. That's fine at a fixed rate of speed like upma long steep pass but my feeling is when moving to the left lane for a typical passing maneuver the small diesel will make easier work out of it since it is developing a much larger max torque, in this case, at 2,000. Owner towing feedback seems to support that notion. I agree there will probably be better refinements in small diesels in the next decade, especially if the F150 diesel is well received. I think in general all of this is good for us as consumers. For this moment, the little Duramax is the best option for a small footprint fuel efficient package that can tow up to a midsize camper. Compared to pretty much every other market in the world we as North Americans have this notion that we need huge size trucks to do any sort of work where everywhere else people get it done with smaller trucks, and in Europe passenger cars towing campers everywhere for that matter. Personally, my biggest area of concern is related to regeneration intervals and how that will effect my wife with her 2 mile work commute, and idling along in low range off-road. They don't seem to like to idle for long periods of time.

My main beef with diesel is the upfront cost. There are other little quirks, but overall, if I were towing a lot, that's a great little set up. I seldom tow, which is why I am sticking with gas. But the deal you got on that thing, that would be hard to pass up. Especially considering you could probably recoup a lot of the cost if you end up selling it.

 

[Clutch]

I think we are just gonna take a breath & wait for a while. Lots of great points, both pro & con for the small diesel. Like some stated, I can buy a LOT of repairs & fuel for the $50,000 of a new truck. Apparently you can not let the 2.8L Duramax idle for too long, or else it will go into limp mode, from the few vids I watched. Not cool in my book.

Denali Canyon 4x4 LB nada shows reports of around 40-41k lowest deal and invoice is right around 44k. The nicely optioned SLT shows 39-40k on the low end.

I see to my surprise SLE trim with the 2.8. ??? 37k option?

Seems like there are Colorado LT/Z71's in the sub $35K range.

http://www.markportergm.com/Vehicle...t_Box_4_Wheel_Drive_Z71-Pomeroy-OH/2930718643

Is it just me or do the GMC's look a little "hippy" as in Jayne Mansfield (not the LSD taking type hippies :sombrero... with the exaggerated fender flares.

 

[Dalko43]

It's not just a matter of towing up a hill. It is acceleration from a standing start, acceleration during passing moves, start and stop driving - regeneration issues, servicing costs, etc. Basically the day to day life of light duty trucks.
So my comment on LD diesel engines devolving is based on this. The gas engine is getting so good, and the perceptions of diesel advantage is not realized in the light duty market except in very limited use type cases. If you look at diesel engines in the world market, the pinnacle of LD diesel was the last generation of common rail. That engine had the same advantage/disadvantage as it's HD brother.
If you look at the current and developing HD market, diesel is a much more clearly defined advantage/disadvantage. The light duty market in comparison is ambiguous. Give it about three more years, and I think we'll see a more clear direction.

The Colorado with the 2.8L duramax gets 20 city/28 highway compared to the gasoline Colorado's 17/24 and Tacoma's 18/23. As well it gets ~100lb-ft more torque than the comparable gasoline engines. Honestly, I see that as reason enough to buy a light duty diesel. And I wonder how much more efficiency auto manufactures can squeeze out of the gasoline engine. Diesels potentially have more room to grow, especially if they figure out a way to deal with all the issues/inefficiencies associated with the current emissions technology.

As for acceleration and day-to-day driving, I don't consider that a big issue. People who buy diesel trucks or economy cars have already come to accept that there are tradeoffs for having more efficiency. There is the Raptor and Hemi crowd that wants a fast 0-60 truck, but there are also a lot of truck buyers who just want something that will tow and get the job done, nothing more. Honestly, the 2.8L duramax and the rumored arrival of a Ford diesel for the F-150 have the potential to be game changers for the North American truck market. I see this as a renaissance of sorts for diesel trucks in America, which is a good thing.

 

[Clutch]

The Colorado with the 2.8L duramax gets 20 city/28 highway compared to the gasoline Colorado's 17/24 and Tacoma's 18/23. As well it gets ~100lb-ft more torque than the comparable gasoline engines. Honestly, I see that as reason enough to buy a light duty diesel.
.

Buy in cost is too high for me. You can get an Extra Cab Colorado V6 sub $25K...unfortunately the extra cab isn't available with a diesel, so you have to get one of the crew cab configurations. Cheapest for one of those is around $35K that I can find. The gasser is $10K cheaper right off the top...I can live with 100 ft/lbs less torque, that V6 has plenty of power for me, heck, probably never have to use it to its' max, ever!...that extra $10K I saved buys an awful awful lot of fuel. 4 gallon difference in hwy mpg isn't a while lot at the end of the year, diesel is about 10¢ more than premium right now in my area. 40¢ more than regular.

 

[upcruiser]

I still believe the resale difference will make up the $3,800 difference between gas and diesel. That number does include thectowing package which if you added it to a gasser would reduce the difference further. I agree with Clutch though, I wish they would offer it in more body style and lower trim options. I am a sucker for an uber basic work truck.

We did a 350 mile drive yesterday, now bringing the total mileage up to 700 miles on the truck. First time really driving it any distance. On two lane road driving including a fair amount of snow covered then wet/slushy surfaces we averaged 32mpg on the drive over to Tahquamenon Falls then 29 on the way home with a pretty good headwind and what I believe to have been the truck doing a regen. It was showing 21-22mpg vs 31-32 that it normally does during that time. Took about ten minutes for it to perform it, other than the instant mpg display there was no other clue it was going on. I feel that is pretty exceptional mileage given how fresh the motor is, I would imagine it will loosen up a bit and maybe do a bit more. Great ride, even on the poor surfaces we were on. This truck really impresses me with its road manners.


Whitefish Point


Upper Falls

 

[luckyjoe]

My main beef with diesel is the upfront cost.

Mine is the (over?) complexity of modern diesels.

I've always liked the European approach of smaller displacement Tdi. I've driven my VW 1.9L 250k miles since 2003, still my DD and I still love it. But in researching the newer diesel technologies I'm a little put-off. As Comanche Scott said, it will be interesting to see where all this goes. I see a little more room for gas to evolve and plenty of room for diesel to devolve (based on all the emissions hurdles).

I just can't put money toward this GM product with any expectation to still be driving it 15 years on.

 

[proper4wd]

Revisiting the actual numbers on the gas vs diesel Colorado - real world performance - based on technical data here: http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/vehicles/colorado/2016.tab1.html

Let's put together a hypothetical scenario where each engine is operating at peak torque (4000rpm for the V6 and 2000rpm for the diesel) in whichever gear that would be at closest to highway speed (65mph - ish).

Both the gas and diesel have the same transmission - the 6L50.

Gas V6: 4000rpm in 3rd gear, 67mph
Diesel I4: 2000rpm in 5th gear, 61mph

(assuming a 15" rolling radius tire typical of 30-31" size)

Calculating out the actual torque to the ground in these scenarios we'll need to multiply out the engine's peak torque times the gear ratios (transmission and rear axle drive). Both V6 and diesel have 3.42 final drive.

Gas V6: 269tq x 1.55 3rd gear x 3.42 axle = 1425 wheel tq (205 crank hp) at 67mph
Diesel: 369tq x .85 5th gear x 3.42 axle = 1072 wheel tq (140 crank hp) at 61mph

At highway speed at max torque the V6 puts 33% more torque to the ground than the diesel (not to mention nearly 50% more horsepower).

This is not a highway tow monster diesel. Its an economical choice for light workloads.

 

[upcruiser]

Mine is the (over?) complexity of modern diesels.

I've always liked the European approach of smaller displacement Tdi. I've driven my VW 1.9L 250k miles since 2003, still my DD and I still love it. But in researching the newer diesel technologies I'm a little put-off. As Comanche Scott said, it will be interesting to see where all this goes. I see a little more room for gas to evolve and plenty of room for diesel to devolve (based on all the emissions hurdles).

I just can't put money toward this GM product with any expectation to still be driving it 15 years on.

15 years is our goal. The engine isn't new, it's been around for awhile, the emissions stuff specifically is what is new. If I need to replace some components down the road it's not the end of the world. It's more the integrated electronics on all modern trucks that I take the most concern in. People bag on gm all the time but gm trucks arguably have some of the longest running drivetrains running. Look at the mileage people pile onto their trucks and Suburbans. Outside of Tacomas and Land Cruisers there aren't many trucks that last as long, and I would imagine that are treated as poorly in the process. One of my favorite adventures was in an earlier version of this truck, a Chevy Luv turbo diesel, exploring the Atacama.


The biggest issue I anticipate with a growing offering of diesels in the States is going to be people putting their money where their mouths are. We all vote for what the companies will bring us with our wallets...

 

[Clutch]

I still believe the resale difference will make up the $3,800 difference between gas and diesel. That number does include thectowing package which if you added it to a gasser would reduce the difference further. I agree with Clutch though, I wish they would offer it in more body style and lower trim options. I am a sucker for an uber basic work truck.

I like that the Ram puts it in the basic work truck...have seen as low as $28K, when the truck gets into that price range, financially it starts to make a little more sense.

We did a 350 mile drive yesterday, now bringing the total mileage up to 700 miles on the truck. First time really driving it any distance. On two lane road driving including a fair amount of snow covered then wet/slushy surfaces we averaged 32mpg on the drive over to Tahquamenon Falls then 29 on the way home with a pretty good headwind and what I believe to have been the truck doing a regen. It was showing 21-22mpg vs 31-32 that it normally does during that time. Took about ten minutes for it to perform it, other than the instant mpg display there was no other clue it was going on. I feel that is pretty exceptional mileage given how fresh the motor is, I would imagine it will loosen up a bit and maybe do a bit more. Great ride, even on the poor surfaces we were on. This truck really impresses me with its road manners.

That mileage is pretty darn good, but when I run the numbers...that gasser is still cheaper to own. Curious to where you are getting only a $3800 difference? Cheapest V6 gas I have found was $24K, cheapest diesel was $31K. Seven thousand dollar difference. I can add on tow equipment myself for far cheaper than what the package is from the factory.

Mine is the (over?) complexity of modern diesels.

I've always liked the European approach of smaller displacement Tdi. I've driven my VW 1.9L 250k miles since 2003, still my DD and I still love it. But in researching the newer diesel technologies I'm a little put-off. As Comanche Scott said, it will be interesting to see where all this goes. I see a little more room for gas to evolve and plenty of room for diesel to devolve (based on all the emissions hurdles).

I just can't put money toward this GM product with any expectation to still be driving it 15 years on.

Don't think will go 15 years without major repair, which broadens the financial gap even more, for those people who bought it to save on fuel....you'll save fuel, but it won't be cheap.

 

[Dalko43]

Revisiting the actual numbers on the gas vs diesel Colorado - real world performance - based on technical data here: http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/vehicles/colorado/2016.tab1.html

Let's put together a hypothetical scenario where each engine is operating at peak torque (4000rpm for the V6 and 2000rpm for the diesel) in whichever gear that would be at closest to highway speed (65mph - ish).

Both the gas and diesel have the same transmission - the 6L50.

Gas V6: 4000rpm in 3rd gear, 67mph
Diesel I4: 2000rpm in 5th gear, 61mph

(assuming a 15" rolling radius tire typical of 30-31" size)

Calculating out the actual torque to the ground in these scenarios we'll need to multiply out the engine's peak torque times the gear ratios (transmission and rear axle drive). Both V6 and diesel have 3.42 final drive.

Gas V6: 269tq x 1.55 3rd gear x 3.42 axle = 1425 wheel tq (205 crank hp) at 67mph
Diesel: 369tq x .85 5th gear x 3.42 axle = 1072 wheel tq (140 crank hp) at 61mph

At highway speed at max torque the V6 puts 33% more torque to the ground than the diesel (not to mention nearly 50% more horsepower).

This is not a highway tow monster diesel. Its an economical choice for light workloads.

Is that really giving us the full picture though? You should also consider the area under the torque and power curves for both the gasoline v6 and the inline 4 diesel. I've seen individual graphs for both the 2.8l duramax and the gasoline v6, but not one that compares the two side-by-side. I'm sure someone will do that kind of test eventually. Based on what I have seen, the 2.8l duramax delivers a bit more torque at much lower RPM's relative to the gasoline v6, which is generally what you want for towing.

So yeah, the V6 might be more powerful than the diesel at peak torque. But who wants to drive their gasoline truck around at 4000 RPM's and for how long? That kind of driving will tank you mpg.

And again, I'm not sure why people keep bringing up the speed aspect. The gasoline v6 was only slightly quicker than the duramax in the TFL towing test. I don't think that slight discrepancy will matter to most potential truck buyers, and, to be honest, I don't most are prioritizing speed when they are deciding on a truck.

 

[Clutch]

The biggest issue I anticipate with a growing offering of diesels in the States is going to be people putting their money where their mouths are. We all vote for what the companies will bring us with our wallets...

Time will tell, think gas prices would have to get crazy again for sales to soar. As well see with gas prices settling over these last couple years... A-Typical Americans like their big thirsty trucks, and not vehicles tuned for economy. Might be the area I am in, but massive fullsize diesel trucks (running with an empty bed! ) seem to be king of the land here.