Why are other full size SUV's not used in overlanding/offroading as often as Forerunner/Landcruiser?

[Mericas_Meuth]

I love Toyotas, never meant to downplay them. I also love Tahoe's back when they looked like a truck, and wondered why they aren't utilized more... But I realize now it's more of an image reason than anything.

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[CrazyDrei]

Not sure how domestic trucks can compete with the cargo capacity of a Toyota, that's 30 people in the back.

 

[badm0t0rfinger]

Absolutely! Something I completely forgot about is the aftermarket! I don't know how many of you were into RC cars as kids or even adults, but those are basically made so you can swap parts from day one, and thats one thing that Jeep and Toyota have on their side. Much harder to find those kinds of things for a Tahoe or Expedition!

 

[86scotty]

Not sure how domestic trucks can compete with the cargo capacity of a Toyota, that's 30 people in the back.

Yep, but it certainly isn't 30 Americans!

This thread, like a million before it, is fun but basically just all opinion. Also, we're on the preeminent overlanding site so opinions will lean towards vehicles marketed as such (See Toyota ads above).

Go to the GM or Ford sites and ask the same question and you'll get quite a different reply, or just ask anyone outside of the US and they will wonder why on earth anyone would drive a V8/V10/diesel behemoth with theater seating and 18 cup holders.

 

[rayra]

There's only one big drawback about an SR5. The vehicle computer was on the floor. Flood the cab and you were DONE. As my friend Dave discovered in the shallow end of Little Rock dam, long years ago.

There's room for all sorts of vehicles and brands. They all have to be towed sometime.

 

[ttengineer]

The part I find particularly amusing - and this goes for an awful lot of hobbies and lifestyles not limited to automobiles - is working out exactly who somebody's trying to impress.

Example I could go pick out a full uniform at the Western Wearhouse from hat to boots and I might fool somebody into thinking I'm a cowboy but I'm not fooling a real cowboy. So who's my target audience and why do I want them in particular to think I'm a cowboy?

It's a weird game no matter what lifestyle it's played in.

I’ve never understood this POV, and view it as misdirected poor self confidence.

Why does someone have to be trying to impress someone? Why can’t they just be making themselves happy?

Just do what makes you happy, who cares what anyone else does.

If buying a bunch of stuff you may or may not use makes you happy, then do it.



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[Buliwyf]

Quality, durability and reliability to name just three. Good god I have owned way too many ford products GM products, Toyota toys, nissans, Porsche’s, Honda’s, Mercedes and even early Hyundai’s over the years. In the end, the Japanese products are head and shoulders above the rest. One may find a better ‘fit’ for tall, oversized or whatever, but from a vehicle perspective my experience is that the Japanese, in particular toyota rule the roost.

Now I expect a deluge of American iron lovers to grab their guns and come out with their personal exceptions, or they ‘know a guy who’ exceptions, that in the end prove the rule. Reliability history is long and quite one sided

Durability and reliability are two different things. Japanese trucks were reliable, but I've never found them to be durable. Domestic can have better durability if you play your cards right. Play them wrong, and domestic is neither durable or reliable.

Reliability has never been a domestic selling point. Cup holders and infotainment screens are FAR more important. So they're built to reflect such. When people start demanding a better product......

The better SUV's aren't even made anymore. Suburban 2500, gone. Excursion, gone. Mitsu Montero, gone. Tahoe XL and Expedition are station wagons now. Girly Honda CRV type Explorers and Jeeps aren't so hot for more than a smooth dirt road.

2020 Sequoia wins by default? Does a 4 door Wrangler count as an SUV now? Wranglers crush 4 runners in sales around here. Nearly 2/3 are Rubicon models as well.

 

[phsycle]

Durability and reliability are two different things. Japanese trucks were reliable, but I've never found them to be durable. Domestic can have better durability if you play your cards right. Play them wrong, and domestic is neither durable or reliable.

Reliability has never been a domestic selling point. Cup holders and infotainment screens are FAR more important. So they're built to reflect such. When people start demanding a better product......

The better SUV's aren't even made anymore. Suburban 2500, gone. Excursion, gone. Mitsu Montero, gone. Tahoe XL and Expedition are station wagons now. Girly Honda CRV type Explorers and Jeeps aren't so hot for more than a smooth dirt road.

2020 Sequoia wins by default? Does a 4 door Wrangler count as an SUV now? Wranglers crush 4 runners in sales around here. Nearly 2/3 are Rubicon models as well.

I would say the only durable HD SUV is the Land Cruiser.

 

[billiebob]

Because the Toyota crowd needs emotional backing, justification, and enticing of all the pretty dongles bedazzeled on their rigs to go off-road. Full-size truck people have been doing it in their stock trucks for a long time. Only difference is, it's not called "Overlanding", but camping.

I jest, but seriously...
Marketing.

This is it.

Marketing, hype, keeping up with the rest of the guys. Very few people want to start from ground one. Hence there are very few Nissans out there and those which are out there are driven by guys who don't just want to build their overlander on line. The Toyota and Jeep after market are huge. Bolt on parts are abundant and online support/forums everywhere. Even Subarus have a pretty decent online presence.

The domestics tend to trend to specific uses. Dodge 40 years later is still regarded by those driving them as the towing king thanks to the legendary Cummins..... altho it has lost some of that reputation thanks to current emissions regulations and the competition has closed the gap. Chevy has the rep for a luxury ride but that hurts the rep a bulletproof driveline. And Ford has the F Series rep as the biggest selling domestic truck ever. Today all 3 of those reps overlap but what hurts the GM in the off roading community is the rep for choosing luxury ride over bulletproof driveline and suspension. And "upgrading" the GM driveline since it has so many more bits and pieces is more expensive than upgrading a solid axle suspension in a Ford or Dodge.

And yes, those buying are often wanting to fit in with the group. emotional ego, group justification, peer pressure, The bigger the group the easier it is to fit in and be welcome. I love this, the VW clan circling the wagons to concentrate the peer pressure and avoid outsider influences...



I wish I had a picture of the eclectic group of guys who camped on the outside row, all facing the ring road and welcoming in anyone wanting to talk about what they brought to the show. Guys with K5 Blazers and Ford Country Squire Wagons and Cab Forward Dodge vans. The common bond was not what they drive, the common bond was what they did not drive..... and beer.

 

[badm0t0rfinger]

The part I find particularly amusing - and this goes for an awful lot of hobbies and lifestyles not limited to automobiles - is working out exactly who somebody's trying to impress.

Example I could go pick out a full uniform at the Western Wearhouse from hat to boots and I might fool somebody into thinking I'm a cowboy but I'm not fooling a real cowboy. So who's my target audience and why do I want them in particular to think I'm a cowboy?

It's a weird game no matter what lifestyle it's played in.

I’ve never understood this POV, and view it as misdirected poor self confidence.

Why does someone have to be trying to impress someone? Why can’t they just be making themselves happy?

Just do what makes you happy, who cares what anyone else does.

If buying a bunch of stuff you may or may not use makes you happy, then do it.

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There is a happy ground between these two comments:

If you WANT to do something just for you, go do it! If you wanna dress up like a cowboy go do it, its when it comes to clout or trend chasing when it becomes problematic.

 

[Deleted member 9101]

What I love is the mantra that because Toyota is rated as the "most reliable" that all others are unreliable.

 

[zoomad75]

This is it.

Marketing, hype, keeping up with the rest of the guys. Very few people want to start from ground one. Hence there are very few Nissans out there and those which are out there are driven by guys who don't just want to build their overlander on line. The Toyota and Jeep after market are huge. Bolt on parts are abundant and online support/forums everywhere. Even Subarus have a pretty decent online presence.

The domestics tend to trend to specific uses. Dodge 40 years later is still regarded by those driving them as the towing king thanks to the legendary Cummins..... altho it has lost some of that reputation thanks to current emissions regulations and the competition has closed the gap. Chevy has the rep for a luxury ride but that hurts the rep a bulletproof driveline. And Ford has the F Series rep as the biggest selling domestic truck ever. Today all 3 of those reps overlap but what hurts the GM in the off roading community is the rep for choosing luxury ride over bulletproof driveline and suspension. And "upgrading" the GM driveline since it has so many more bits and pieces is more expensive than upgrading a solid axle suspension in a Ford or Dodge.

And yes, those buying are often wanting to fit in with the group. emotional ego, group justification, peer pressure, The bigger the group the easier it is to fit in and be welcome. I love this, the VW clan circling the wagons to concentrate the peer pressure and avoid outsider influences...

View attachment 572152

I wish I had a picture of the eclectic group of guys who camped on the outside row, all facing the ring road and welcoming in anyone wanting to talk about what they brought to the show. Guys with K5 Blazers and Ford Country Squire Wagons and Cab Forward Dodge vans. The common bond was not what they drive, the common bond was what they did not drive..... and beer.

That's really the point right there. People get so wrapped up in the look and brands of what they have and tend to overlook the idea of just getting out there. Our group that annually hits the desert once a year has a pretty good mix of makes. Squarebody Chevy trucks, Ram/Dodges, Toyotas and the occasional Jeep. We don't care what gets us out there as long as we are out there.

There isn't any doubt that 4runners and Tacomas have a mountain of aftermarket support unlike the domestic full size SUV's. If you want a quick way to get a vehicle going, Toyota's are hard to beat. But just as it is ok to go that way if somebody wants to go through and build up a less common vehicle for the same use.

 

[calicamper]

I would say the only durable HD SUV is the Land Cruiser.

The

That's really the point right there. People get so wrapped up in the look and brands of what they have and tend to overlook the idea of just getting out there. Our group that annually hits the desert once a year has a pretty good mix of makes. Squarebody Chevy trucks, Ram/Dodges, Toyotas and the occasional Jeep. We don't care what gets us out there as long as we are out there.

There isn't any doubt that 4runners and Tacomas have a mountain of aftermarket support unlike the domestic full size SUV's. If you want a quick way to get a vehicle going, Toyota's are hard to beat. But just as it is ok to go that way if somebody wants to go through and build up a less common vehicle for the same use.

Or just buy a vehicle that’s already capable off the show room floor. LoL The bolt stuff on crowd is a tiny tiny subset of the entire vehicle user population. Tiny really tiny...

 

[ttengineer]

Whether purely personal vanity or vanity for the eyes of others, bumpers outsell skidplates and there can be only one explanation for that.

Besides the obvious metrics that far more bumper manufacturers exist than skid plate manufacturers and the number of skid plate offerings for any vehicle can usually be counted on one hand, bumpers are far more useful on a vehicle than skid plates.

A bumper, protects the vehicle wether on or off road while a skid plate has a very small window of usability.

But your metaphor is not lost on me however it once again screams of insecurity and jealousy.

Who cares why people do it? I’m ok with people buying products they will never use.

You know why?

It brings down cost, drives innovation, creates market competition, and pushes R&D for future product offerings.

In the end, wether you like it or not, it’s good for you.



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[zoomad75]

The

Or just buy a vehicle that’s already capable off the show room floor. LoL The bolt stuff on crowd is a tiny tiny subset of the entire vehicle user population. Tiny really tiny...

One of our crew is driving a Power Wagon and another has a Tacoma (non-TRD) and both go everywhere our home built trucks do.