Why aren't more tacoma owners up in arms about their trucks?

[perterra]

I don't know, do I need to research every truck on the internet? Is it okay for a company to market a truck in a misleading way if others are doing it? I'm not sure I understand your point.

You obviously got a bad case of the red ass for Toyota, cant say I blame you, but I dont know of any Tacoma's who have had that problem. I'd be curious how many documented cases of damage there are. I mean you have been having these issues for a year now and got no bites on your original post

But good luck on your rant,

 

[DaveInDenver]

DaveInDenver - you're being sarcastic, but yah man, it is a problem. Too bad I didn't get a video when it happened to me...

I'm not sure what your failure was but those don't look like oil starving. Maybe failing PCV or the oil pooling at the rearmost cylinders and blowing by? It's a lot of smoke being burnt but it would seem to have to be a whole lot of oil to actually hydrolock. Could obviously foul plugs, ruin emissions, though. I am not aware of any common issue with the 1GR like this so perhaps it's unique to the 2GR-FKS and the Atkinson cycle happening simultaneous? Do these engines happen to have a high rate of oil consumption, valve fouling or piston wall scoring even in normal use by chance? My feeling is the high angle thing is a red herring, just an extreme example of a symptom occurring in a bad run of engines.

 

[Sam Odio]

I'm not sure what your failure was but those don't look like oil starving. Maybe failing PCV or the oil pooling at the rearmost cylinders and blowing by?

The smoke was definitely burning oil - but I was never able to determine the exact cause of the blown engine (starvation or oil hydrolock). Toyota confiscated the engine as part of the eventual warranty agreement (after I appealed).

 

[sg1]

I understand your engine was originally used in Camrys and may not have been designed with offroad use in mind. This may be the source of your problems. I know the Land Rover initially had problems assuring proper lubrication when they put the Ford Transit engine into the Defender. In the Transit this engine had been used for ages and had a good reputation but it obviously was never used on steep hills before being put in a Defender. LR had to redesign the oilpan and the intake for the oilpump to ensure proper lubrication at steep angles. Another problem I have seen when car or van engines were used offroad is that oil was leaking from ventilation openings for the camshaft or other parts of the engine because they were never designed to have oil or other fluids pressing against them. A third possibility are possible problems with internal seals mentioned by DavelnDenver that may not have been designed to properly seal when oil was actually pressing against it because of the angle of the engine and the oil level raising in certain parts to levels that were not foreseen when designing the engine.
A good Japanese friend of mine used to be a senior executive in the marketing department of Toyota North America. When I asked him why the frame of the Taco with his longer wheelbase is so much weaker than the Hilux frame he told me that the Taco is specifically designed for the North American market as a "lifestyle truck" and the Hilux for 3rd world markets as a "workhorse" being constantly overloaded and abused.

 

[sg1]

Sorry mistake. It isn't camshaft but crankshaft of course

 

[NitroExpress]

I switched from Land Rover (owned everything from a Defender to LR2) last year and bought a new 2018 Tacoma Off-road. I've since learned that Tacomas have:

1. oil lubrication issues when ascending hills that lead to low oil pressure / engine burning oil / even a thrown rod
2. can hydrolock after going throw shallow water & toyota doesn't publish spec "fording depths" like Jeep & Land Rover

These seem like big issues - the first led to me blowing the engine in my Taco...I'm pretty surprised there isn't more online about them. I wish I knew about them before buying my truck. Is this just a fluke? Or do Taco owners not ford water / ascend steep hills? How does Toyota get away with branding a truck "off road" but not publishing an acceptable fording depth?

I'm Trying to understand point #2 - It doesn't appear from your posts here that you have had a problem (I couldn't get your website to pull up "Cisco security error") with water ingestion and subsequent hydrolocking from fording shallow water. It seems to me it's fairly easy to determine this depth if you know the point at which air enters your air filter housing. I know this isn't the actual fording depth, but from a hydrolocking standpoint, it seems it would be. Is there somewhere else that water is being ingested into the cylinders? I do understand that you are looking for an official published depth from the manufacturer that doesn't seem to exist, but have you had hydrolocking damage in addition to the oil issue?

I can sympathize with your plight and disappointment as I've had a number of issues with vehicles that don't function properly and the subsequent battle that ensues with Dealers and Manufacturers. As we approach the one year anniversary of your incident, you still seem very "scorched earth" against Toyota and you want the enthusiasts in the Toyota section of an off road forum to all join you in putting Toyota out of business for their sin of not being the manufacturer of a perfect vehicle. Perhaps it's time to ditch the POS Tacoma and get back into a Landy with the specs you desire and ability to climb the hills you seek?

 

[tacollie]

The 2gr is an overhead cam. It's it sounds like they drain oil into the back cylinders on "steep" climbs leading to smoke and potential hydralock. I had this happen on my 90' 4runner. When it happened to me it was driver error. I believe some JL guys are having similar issues (though it may be in more extreme conditions) and are adding catch cans to address it. I don't know if it is a real issue with the Tacomas. Tacomas have always been the truck of compromise. I've had 4 and 3 were good vehicles.

 

[Buliwyf]

1.) What exactly is the cause of the problem? Before we condemn Toyota. I'm fine with smoke and oil consumption at high angles, but not pressure loss due to the pickup tube being routed poorly.

2.) It takes a ton of water to hydrolock a proper engine. If it's pulled through a proper air filter it gets kinda atomized into droplets that easily pass through the engine. We've been using water injection in piston engines for an eternity. Powerboats routinely stuff their hulls and chug a huge gulp of water that stalls the engine. Rarely does it damage anything. Also why I suggest low gears for water crossings. Higher rpms sees less water enter the cylinder per cycle.

Is the pickup tube poorly routed? Or air filter poorly designed? Mercedes had a few cars with incorrect pickups that would hydrolock and fail from large puddles.

 

[Lovetheworld]

The whole wading depth thing: It is annoying if there are no official numbers. They give these numbers for Hiluxes and Landcruisers.
But still it is just a depth, and if you drive in fast enough you can still manage to break things or make enough of a wave for it to enter the intake.
I would never be confident to have a lot of water through the grill or even over the hood if it is not fitted with a snorkel.

Saying that you saw the oil pressure light flash at 10 degrees is ridiculous. Any normal car can get 10 degrees in a hilly area, also parked and starting/idling.
Everybody would notice that with any 2GR (and that are a lot of cars, also Lexus)

The 2gr is an overhead cam. It's it sounds like they drain oil into the back cylinders on "steep" climbs leading to smoke and potential hydralock. I had this happen on my 90' 4runner. When it happened to me it was driver error. I believe some JL guys are having similar issues (though it may be in more extreme conditions) and are adding catch cans to address it. I don't know if it is a real issue with the Tacomas. Tacomas have always been the truck of compromise. I've had 4 and 3 were good vehicles.

How was it a driver error?

Next to that, you could say that the 2GR and GR family of engines are a successor to the 3VZ and 5VZ as used alot in the 4runner. And the 5VZ is also built in Landcruisers as well as the 1GR in newer models.

So do they all potentially have these issues? When taking on steep angles?

I wouldn't think so, because it would be about 4Runners, Hiluxes, FJ Cruisers and Landcruiser (Prado). So I would think this is specific to the 2GR, or how it is applied in the Tacoma.
The VZ family were also not intended for offroad use I think but used for it.

The 1GR was definitely intended for offroad use because it has only been installed in 4x4's.
So there is a difference in 1GR and 2GR for this issue.

 

[DaveInDenver]

So I would think this is specific to the 2GR, or how it is applied in the Tacoma.[

The VZ family were also not intended for offroad use I think but used for it.

The 1GR was definitely intended for offroad use because it has only been installed in 4x4's.
So there is a difference in 1GR and 2GR for this issue.

The VZ was indeed originally used cars, too. It came to the truck from the Camry as well I believe.

I think based on that it appears to be burning a lot of oil that you are right about it being specific to the Tacoma application.

It's not the 2GR but the specifically the 2GR-FKS when used in the Tacoma. This engine has the D4-S modified Atkinson Cycle and wasn't originally intended (nor in fact used elsewhere) for trucks off road. So the bottom end and oil pickup is probably not an issue. It's similar AFAIK to the 1GR-FE that as you point out is widely used in trucks, lots of history.

But the heads on the 2GR-FKS are going to be unique and perhaps there's pooling causing it, which coupled with manufacturing or parts issues, like bad valve seals or they are uniquely susceptible? It's unlikely to be a high angle issue alone, cars have to drive up very steep things, driveways or just the transport ramps. But they don't get the jostling and bouncing while running, which might splash oil into cavities it hadn't been before.

 

[The_Dude]

I looked hard at the Tacoma after having my 80 series and ended up going with a 2010 Tundra. Only regret is it’s size for off-roading. Everything else I have ZERO regrets about choosing this over the Taco.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tacollie]

How was it a driver error?

Next to that, you could say that the 2GR and GR family of engines are a successor to the 3VZ and 5VZ as used alot in the 4runner. And the 5VZ is also built in Landcruisers as well as the 1GR in newer models.

So do they all potentially have these issues? When taking on steep angles?

I wouldn't think so, because it would be about 4Runners, Hiluxes, FJ Cruisers and Landcruiser (Prado). So I would think this is specific to the 2GR, or how it is applied in the Tacoma.
The VZ family were also not intended for offroad use I think but used for it.

The 1GR was definitely intended for offroad use because it has only been installed in 4x4's.
So there is a difference in 1GR and 2GR for this issue.

I was stuck on a steep incline for 10+ minutes while my buddies hooked up a winch. They started winching and nothing happened so I hit the gas. Almost instantly I had a bad knock. Not long after I fixed that I learned about water crossings. If you approach them wrong they don't have to be deep to cause problems. I spent most my free time in 10th grade working to put motors in that 4runner?.

Plenty of guys see white smoke out the exhaust in steep situations. Does the Tacoma do it in less steep situations? Maybe. The op asked why more Tacoma owners aren't up in arms about their trucks. Obviously because they haven't had the same experience. Realistically it's probably an issue for less than 1% of owners.

After selling my last Tacoma I don't see myself owning one again. But who knows. I never thought I would own a Tundra.

 

[tacollie]

I looked hard at the Tacoma after having my 80 series and ended up going with a 2010 Tundra. Only regret is it’s size for off-roading. Everything else I have ZERO regrets about choosing this over the Taco.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed! I'm really digging the Tundra these days.

 

[battleaxe]

They figured (rightly I think) that the 1% of serious users would hack half the stock crap off and beef it up anyway, so why should they continue to over-build a truck with much unused capability like they had been up to 1995?

I personally wouldn't consider a 2nd gen 4runner/third gen pickup as "overbuilt" . And if by rugged, you mean lack of comfort... Definitely. That being said, I will always have a soft spot for them. But I will always pick something post 1995 for a plethora of reasons.

ChasingOurTrunks - Man, I keep coming back to that. So right.

It grinds my gears that Tacoma knows its drivers won't off-road its trucks so it can get away with this stuff. The company seems to just care about how the truck looks. They put a "TRD Off-Road" sticker on the side of a truck, beefy tires on it, and called it a day. Someone needs to call BS on that marketing strategy.

I spent $40k and I bought an off-road package. Sure, I could invest in after-market parts (though none exist for the oil lubrication issue on hill climbs). But should I have to? There are other options and other brands where, when I buy an off-road truck, I'd get an off-road truck.

Get away with what??? Let's be perfectly honest here... The Tacoma has become a glorified 4wd Camry and an "offroad" package is a sticker... Base model 4x4 truck still has the same drivetrain, and the same capabilities. What other brands/options are going to give you more than what a Tacoma offers from an "offroad" standpoint (not being snarky here, I'm curious what you think)? Every single one of these trucks are engineered and designed to be at home on paved roads as their primary function. The only company that differs from that slightly is Jeep... And even then, they put anemic engines and axles under them to save on costs, so they don't get my vote of confidence for anything anyways.

Don't get me wrong, whatever has happened to you really sucks, and I don't disagree in that I think the third gens are a bit of a flop overall.

My 2016 TRD OR drives like my moms 2005 Camry... Honest truth.

 

[toylandcruiser]

I personally wouldn't consider a 2nd gen 4runner/third gen pickup as "overbuilt" . And if by rugged, you mean lack of comfort... Definitely. That being said, I will always have a soft spot for them. But I will always pick something post 1995 for a plethora of reasons.

Get away with what??? Let's be perfectly honest here... The Tacoma has become a glorified 4wd Camry and an "offroad" package is a sticker... Base model 4x4 truck still has the same drivetrain, and the same capabilities. What other brands/options are going to give you more than what a Tacoma offers from an "offroad" standpoint (not being snarky here, I'm curious what you think)? Every single one of these trucks are engineered and designed to be at home on paved roads as their primary function. The only company that differs from that slightly is Jeep... And even then, they put anemic engines and axles under them to save on costs, so they don't get my vote of confidence for anything anyways.

Don't get me wrong, whatever has happened to you really sucks, and I don't disagree in that I think the third gens are a bit of a flop overall.

My 2016 TRD OR drives like my moms 2005 Camry... Honest truth.

Because a truck rides smooth it’s not a truck? My unimog is the smoothest riding trucks I’ve been in but it’s the toughest most capable truck in the world. It also uses a car engine but it’s a purpose built off-road truck.