Why do Europeans go winchless?

[Sirocco]

because there traveling not wheeling. ive never came close to NEEDING a winch when doin anything other than actual wheelin. theres always another way around.....well mostly always

This is the correct answer.

Routes outside westernised countries are generally graded, often rough, and often travelled well by locals and haulage transport. Your delivery wagons dont hit the trails in the US but you can bet that the main routes in Africa and across Asia are used by all sorts. If you cant get out without tracks and a spade wait for others to come along shortly.

save the money, save the weight.

G

 

[Pskhaat]

Routes outside westernised countries are generally graded, often rough, and often travelled well by locals and haulage transport. Your delivery wagons dont hit the trails in the US but you can bet that the main routes in Africa and across Asia are used by all sorts. If you cant get out without tracks and a spade wait for others to come along shortly

I think this is an interesting perspective. Much of the off-highway track in the US is not often traveled. I could wait for weeks on many roads we take.

Another cultural thing is (and this is just my observation) that non-US folks have a much more lenient work/vacation schedule. I quite literally cannot afford to miss a day of work. With very few granted vacation days as is common here, my job, house, and livelihood are in jeopardy if I have to wait even a day+ to get back to work. If this happens at the beginning of a vacation week great, but what if it happens on the way back to the highway to go home? I think we "need" recovery gear because we need recovery NOW, not tomorrow lest we incur those job ramifications.

don't know about europe, but there are lot's of good reasons to have a winch in the desert, specialy if you travel solo...even if you travel with a friend, in many situations, winching is better then pulling with a strap.

because there traveling not wheeling. ive never came close to NEEDING a winch when doin anything other than actual wheelin. theres always another way around.....well mostly always

Sorry no pics, but here was a good example of mine: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/21040

 

[F4B UP]

i'll be equipping my 110 with a low line winch, mainly for security and the just in case part.

 

[JPK]

My experience in Southern Africa is that winches are common and needed. Especially since in many areas decent tires are hard to come by, and American style off road tires really hard to come by (and they don't stand up to the thorns too well either.) Not all "roads" are well traveled and there are still vast areas without people. Where roads are inadequate driving dry rivers in the winter is a relatively efficient way to travel. The sand varries, as it does anywhere, and can be light dry soft stuff that is easy to get stuck in. One or sometime two burried spares work as anchors if a tree or rock isn't handy, and I have to think that if a Pull Pal like anchor was available they'd sell well.

In Southern Africa Toyota offers a front mounted hydraulic winch from the factory for the top of the line PU trucks btw.

JPK

 

[Vince1]

Sirocco hit the nail on the head. Also, Africa is not like Europe in my limited experience. Way different needs down there, and you even see PTO winches on Land Rovers. Easy to get lost for days and walks back are very long. Europe is crowded!
Maybe also the fact that some of the first consumer winches were made by Warn in the US for the US market. Easy to get one, and we are the land of great consumers. I've seen a lot of new Jeeps and LRs with shiny Warn power plants and owners that don't know how to use them. Similarly, I don't recall ever seeing a rig in Europe with on-board air, yet we are told here that it is a necessity.

 

[Surfy]

I`m from Switzerland, and i`m on to buildup my Landcruiser for a transafrica and other over landing travels - so maybe i can tell something about.

Here we had only a very small off road community. In Switzerland we had recently a political initiative to prohibit big SUV cars in cities. Here it is pretty uncommon to driving off road, same in germany.

Most drivers of the big SUVs are old man`s or women's. And the old men`s - driving unpaved roads and calls that off road.

It is prohibit to drive off road in the forest, and on the most unpaved roads. The only way to have off road, is to drive Trials and Offroad Championships who are much more hardcore, than the normal american or australian sense off off road. Much more..

I like driving off road, and have done some trips in Thailand and Laos for it, and was in 2011 also in the US, Moab.

But driving off road is not popular, there are only very small groups off people who does.

Also here is NO hill climbing in the sense who are in the us. Offroad is more common in east europe. Also in Spain and France, but there more in a "light" way.

So the most europe travelers - and world travelers want to see the world, drive perhaps too unpaved roads, but the don`t take risk`s, don`t drive off road... So they don't need a winch.

I like driving off road, and my buildup will have winch, snorkel, bar`s, armor and so on.

 

[Sirocco]

I think this is an interesting perspective. Much of the off-highway track in the US is not often traveled. I could wait for weeks on many roads we take.

Another cultural thing is (and this is just my observation) that non-US folks have a much more lenient work/vacation schedule. I quite literally cannot afford to miss a day of work. With very few granted vacation days as is common here, my job, house, and livelihood are in jeopardy if I have to wait even a day+ to get back to work. If this happens at the beginning of a vacation week great, but what if it happens on the way back to the highway to go home? I think we "need" recovery gear because we need recovery NOW, not tomorrow lest we incur those job ramifications.

That was my point Scott. The off highway stuff you guys do is remote and as you so rightly pointed out, you go on weekends, short holidays and cannot afford to not be back on the road again.

Im not saying a winch does not have its place. We have one fitted for here in the UK because we travel alone offroad and the routes can be pretty rough. Sure help is only <10miles away, but when you only have 2 days off a week your time is precious!

I dont agree its a cultural thing, you have to remember that the UK is closer to the US than Europe in that respect. I think most European overland travellers travel (not weekends/1 week wheeling) so they leave work for weeks/months at a time. They are not on a strict schedule and as my previous post do not require a winch due to sticking to well travelled routes. Our Morocco trip took all my time off work (4 Weeks) and we left the next day after finishing and was back in the next day after returning. It was tight, but its the only way to do it and Im lucky my boss allows me to take 4 weeks at a time. (mostly because work is quiet in the last 4 years!).

You guys are also lucky to have so much more land which is free to roam. Europs is crowded and as pointed out there are limited 'off-road' options on the continent. There are very few legal spots in France/Spain/Italy, Germany is a no go so that leaves Eastern Europe which is a couple of days trek for most Europeans and with Diesel at nearly £1.50/Litre its not a travel prospect to take lightly. You would want to spend a few weeks down there.

Regarding Winches as factory option, they are not trying to help you, they are a business, they are there to make money. If they can sell you all the accessories that you may/my not need then its better for them.

Regarding tyres, you need to be fairly sensible with tyre approach and the country you are travelling. Find out what sizes can be had locally etc etc. There is no point turning up to do a trans-africa trip with 35" tyres.

It all comes back to the distinction between people who offroad/wheeling/greenlane and those who travel overland crossing international borders. Problems lie when you do both kinds, like us! We will likely leave the winch on for our Siberia trip next year but Im not sure I need to take the pull pal. hmmm...

G