Why is Dodge more popular than Ford/GM? (Not a bash post)

[1stDeuce]

I assume we're talking 3/4 and 1-ton trucks, as all the half tons are similar, and I don't see a plethora of half ton rams anywhere, particularly in overlanding crowds... As someone who has driven versions of all three HD trucks, albiet some time ago, I'll add a few things...

First, the OP said he wants to do some "rock crawling" or hard core offroading. IMO that rules the GM trucks out, as their out of the box frame clearance is pretty poor compared to Ford and Ram. The IFS also doesn't do as well in rock crawling situations, as it lacks flexibility. That pushes the off-road crowd to Ram and Ford, both of which still run solid front axles.

Comparing those two, the next thing that comes into play is the ride quality and drive experience. ALL of the SuperDuty Ford trucks I've driven ride and drive like absolute crap compared to GM and Ram trucks. Granted my ride and drive experiences happened 10+ years ago, but the Ford trucks of that era were awful in comparison, and I highly doubt that has changed much. Contractors care less about that stuff and more about cost and durability. Ford has the contractor base wrapped up IMO, but for the non-commercial consumer, Ram and GM are light years ahead.

When you weigh those things against the preferences of the OP and many other overlanding types, you end up looking at a Ram as the best fit by a large margin. Add to that the Cummins with a great reputation for a long time, while Ford's diesels have been hit and miss at best, and lots buyers of our kind end up... in a Ram.

My $0.02

 

[nickw]

Is anybody doing the types up upgrades on Fords like AEV does on Ram's? I can jump on the AEV site and but stuff that is engineered to an OEM standard with a click of a mouse, just like I did for the rims I bought that are sim offset to stock unlike most of the aftermarket stuff available for Fords / Chevy's that is much too offset for me.

 

[Todd780]

Comparing those two, the next thing that comes into play is the ride quality and drive experience. ALL of the SuperDuty Ford trucks I've driven ride and drive like absolute crap compared to GM and Ram trucks. Granted my ride and drive experiences happened 10+ years ago, but the Ford trucks of that era were awful in comparison, and I highly doubt that has changed much. Contractors care less about that stuff and more about cost and durability. Ford has the contractor base wrapped up IMO, but for the non-commercial consumer, Ram and GM are light years ahead.

I would drive them again. A lot has changed over the past 10+ years.

 

[tacollie]

Is anybody doing the types up upgrades on Fords like AEV does on Ram's? I can jump on the AEV site and but stuff that is engineered to an OEM standard with a click of a mouse, just like I did for the rims I bought that are sim offset to stock unlike most of the aftermarket stuff available for Fords / Chevy's that is much too offset for me.

I think AEV is doing stuff for Chevy HD line starting in 2024. Ford doesn't have any offerings. I ended up with Carli/Accutune suspension. I probably would have gone with Carli or Thurin if we had bought a RAM. My experience with AEV stuff has left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[tacollie]

I would drive them again. A lot has changed over the past 10+ years.

In my opinion Ford is still had the roughest ride unloaded. Our F250 with 1500 to 2000 lb is still not plush but it handles it like a champ!

 

[nickw]

I think AEV is doing stuff for Chevy HD line starting in 2024. Ford doesn't have any offerings. I ended up with Carli/Accutune suspension. I probably would have gone with Carli or Thurin if we had bought a RAM. My experience with AEV stuff has left a bad taste in my mouth.

Out of curiosity what didn't you like about AEV?

 

[robgendreau]

I was in the market recently, and tried to buy a Ford, having owned a couple (and a Toyota) over the years. They'd been good, I knew my way around them, had the forum memberships

But Ford is done. Their woes of late getting any truck to anyone who's ordered, and the lack of trucks on lots, was just pathetic. I couldn't find anything, and I was being flexible. Orders were being held up for lack of all kinds of ridonculous parts. And they've got six trim levels, and no one knows how many different overlapping packages. It was a real headache.

So I waltzed into a Chrysler/Ram dealership a few miles from my home and had a truck from them in a day, with several things I liked better than the Fords, like size. More rational options too, although they also aren't exactly overflowing with trucks on the ground, esp if you want a gasser.

 

[Buddha.]

I’m on my second chevy 2500, never had to change any ifs stuff. No bearings no tie rods.

I considered getting a ram but the big local dealer had two used units on the lot, both over $55k. Also Hemi tick.

Our lariat alumiduty shop truck eats tires and has wicked bump steer on flat roads. It’s only at 70k. I don’t understand how those suspension/steering components can look so beefy and be so worn out already.

I’m surprised half ton rams aren’t more popular in the overlander crowd, seems like that soft suspension would ride the best on rough roads.

 

[Ozarker]

I'm looking here and in some other places and seeing a lot more Late model Dodge/Ram 2500/3500 than Ford or GM counterparts. Why is that?

Obviously, you are looking in all the wrong places!

 

[1stDeuce]

^^ That guy is funny, but I think that comment rings true!! I will say that I see plenty of GM trucks when I'm out and about acutally doing what the built up Ram trucks in the camping areas of overlanding events certainly look like they could do...

Like Buddha, I'm on my 2nd K2500 GMC. The first was a '96 that I bought in about 2003. I put about 150k on it before it rusted to the point I needed to get out of it in about 2008. I replaced it with a 2006 LBZ that I'm planning to drive forever, as I left the rust belt with no plans to return. My '06 had 120k on it when I bought it, and currently has almost 320k miles on it. The "weak" IFS is still on the OEM lower balljoints, bushings, CV shafts, and steering box. I did adjust the lash on the box at about 300k miles to take a bit of on center play out, but it still drives nice. I changed out the upper balljoints to test some prototype alignment parts for my previous employer, but had I not, I suspect they would be original too. I replaced tie rod ends and idler arm at about 150k miles, and so far the Moog parts I used are still tight.

My truck does plenty of offroad and rough road driving, usually while carrying a truck camper, and occasionally with a motorcycle on both ends or a Jeep dragging behind. There are plenty of these GM Trucks that get out in the wild, they just don't "look" all high and mighty like the built up Dodge and Ford trucks do, so they go un-noticed perhaps... ??

 

[Ozarker]

@1stDeuce

You may have a good point, might be a reason some pickup owners have to "build them up", I've had all kinds over the years, mostly stock F150's, 24 years of them and never got stuck so bad I couldn't drive away after a bit of effort without a winch.

Okay, so I don't drive in mud pits 3 feet deep, never jumped sand dunes, but I have forded streams and low rivers, been on beaches, in the woods and stayed at a Holiday Inn.

Build your vehicle to tackle the mission or choose a mission suitable for your vehicle, either way you get to go.

 

[Todd780]

I’m on my second chevy 2500, never had to change any ifs stuff. No bearings no tie rods.

I considered getting a ram but the big local dealer had two used units on the lot, both over $55k. Also Hemi tick.

Our lariat alumiduty shop truck eats tires and has wicked bump steer on flat roads. It’s only at 70k. I don’t understand how those suspension/steering components can look so beefy and be so worn out already.

I’m surprised half ton rams aren’t more popular in the overlander crowd, seems like that soft suspension would ride the best on rough roads.

If going HD, I might lean toward a GM. IFS has never been an issue for me as I don't do anything hardcore. Mostly towing travel trailers.
What I like about the GM twins is they offer 4 Auto on their HD's. No one else does. Being that we have 6 months of winter roads up here, that's a selling feature for me. If Ford offered it on the Super Duty, I'd probably lean to that.

I wonder when Ram will start building HD's off the 5th gen Ram 1500 cabs? Depending on how that truck turns out, I could be swayed.

Clearly I'm not brand loyal, haha....

 

[Ozarker]

If going HD, I might lean toward a GM. IFS has never been an issue for me as I don't do anything hardcore. Mostly towing travel trailers.
What I like about the GM twins is they offer 4 Auto on their HD's. No one else does. Being that we have 6 months of winter roads up here, that's a selling feature for me. If Ford offered it on the Super Duty, I'd probably lean to that.

I wonder when Ram will start building HD's off the 5th gen Ram 1500 cabs? Depending on how that truck turns out, I could be swayed.

Clearly I'm not brand loyal, haha....

The real question should be, will that motorcycle fit in the bed?

Seriously, you'd crossover, ah man.....

 

[UglyViking]

Seems like a lot of answers similar to the one I'm about to give. I think there are a number of reasons that the Ram HD platform seems to outnumber the Ford and GM by a fair amount in terms of late model trucks on the trail.

• Ram has the Power Wagon. It's a fantastic option for an out of the box HD trail rig. It's functionally a larger jeep rubicon, and it just makes sense. You can literally add larger tires and you're set for 80% of peoples needs.
• Ram has historically been notably cheaper than Ford/GM. In the past model year or two it's changed, but at least historically you could get a comparable Ram for thousands less than the Ford or GM.
• Interior and exterior looks are subjective, but at least until the recent updates from Ford and GM I think the redesigned in 2019 Ram interior was head and shoulders above the other two.
• Better aftermarket support for Ram. Not only offerings, but more companies showcasing Ram HD trucks in their booth to hawk their wares. A snowball turns into an avalanche fast that way.
• AEV support. Just being real here, AEV products look absolutely fantastic. Outside their lackluster suspension offering for the Ram platform, the trucks look the part for sure. There just isn't anything comparable for Ford or GM until AEV literally released some stuff for the 2024 GM platform, and Ford is working hard with the Tremor, which speaking of…
• Ram has the Cummins. It's got a reputation for simplicity and reliability. Nevermind that most guys that buy these things won't keep them past 100k anyway, the idea they could, and they could work on them, is appealing, if for the status symbol alone.
• Solid axle. This completely puts GM out of the game. Not to mention it's a challenge to put 37s on a GM, where as Ram you can keep your oem suspension and put on 37s with a spacer or a different wheel choice. Ford has an even bigger wheel well, but I think they don't do as well because of…
• Size. Ram has the smallest cab, which is a bad thing if you're bringing your wife and 2 teenage kids from FL to WA on a road trip, but fantastic if you're going from WA to CO by way of a bunch of off road trails. Turning radius is fantastic (actually even better in a Ram HD than a new F150 or Tundra), and overall the proportions are just great.
• Similarity to Jeep suspension. Ram is the only platform where you can get a 5-link rear end. Guys look at that and say "it's just a bigger jeep!" and it honestly is outside the whole "cant take the doors or top off" thing. It introduces some other considerations, but it's got plenty of flex, especially with aftermarket suspension, it rides great unloaded, and did I mention it's the only HD truck that runs coils in the rear?

Those are my thoughts.

For what it's worth, I bought a 2019 Ram 2500 in 2020 to tow a larger trailer. Everything else aside, I always wanted a Cummins diesel truck since I was a kid, and the Ram checked all the boxes being both a jeep guy and a truck guy. I do sometimes toy with the idea of getting a gladiator now that I've downsized my towing trailer dreams, but man I don't think I can get rid of the thing. The gladiator is only like 1-2ft narrower turning radius (5-10%) but I get way more room and over 2x the payload. As long as you're ok with scratching the paint (which I am) I think it's about perfect a truck you can get in the fullsize realm. Although the midsize wars are heating up!

 

[ramblinChet]

Jeeps have always dominated off-road adventure. Period.

Many former Jeep owners who became interested is HD truck platforms naturally were pulled into Rams since they are essentially big Jeeps and the familiarity was established.

The icing on the cake is the tens-of-thousands of old Jeep guys have more money now to play with now, know exactly what they want and why, and nothing to prove. A simple call to AEV and now they own the absolute finest HD overland truck ever manufactured. As stated in a recent podcast, the Prospector XL is and American version of the Mercedes Unimog. Many people here have zero understanding or comprehension of the engineering solutions that are included in AEV's superior suspension, bumpers, etc. This is understandable since most of us are experts in other fields with few if any, related to suspension design and testing, to SAE standards.

Most aftermarket shops are quite literally, a joke. There are some very famous ones who pay zero attention to correcting steering geometry when lifting a vehicle. An adjustable track bar is a gimmick and not a solution. Folks, the relationship between steering and braking is a matter of life or death in an emergency situation. I think it is safe to say that 80% of the members here have no suspension modification experience or are performing it for the first time. Not much knowledge or experience there. Basically, that's a cool looking flashy part with adjustments and the company has a cool name, and everyone else swears they are great. For the remaining 20% that have installed multiple lifts on a few vehicles, I would estimate again that approximately 80% have less than a decade of experience lifting and modifying rigs. Being generous with my numbers, we have maybe 1 in 25 forum members who have been lifting and modifying vehicle suspension in excess of a decade.

People swear up and down how great their new non-AEV suspension "feels" and blah, blah, blah. That's not how a system is professionally engineered to SAE standards folks. Humans are poor measuring devices and subject to emotional error. One life-saving fact that was drilled into my head decades ago in an Aviation Physiology class at NAS Pensacola is to trust your instruments. What you see and you feel are often subject to confusing and contradicting bits of data which results in useless information - trust your instruments, not your "feelings."

I didn't put hase a RAM because I liked RAM. I purchased it because it was the best solution for the least amount of money, and I was familiar with their Jeep-like systems. I didn't select a comprehensive AEV Prospector upgrade because I liked AEV. I am indifferent and impartial. When I built this latest vehicle, AEV was clearly the finest solution for my application and they continue to stand head-and-shoulders above all others. I built an overlander, not a rockcrawler, not a desert-racer, not a street rig - I built a vehicle for overland expeditions. Isn't that what we are here for?

If I build another vehicle and there are other companies with better engineered solutions, I will most likely select them.